stick with G52 in your tranny - here's why...

Doh. I thought he was changing the engine oil and tranny oil.

Thanks guys. I changed the tranny oil on Friday evening. It resembled the G52 fluid but it was very dark. No chunks or bits of anything in it . Filled it up with the Royal Purple (MityVac works great for filling) and shifting is very smooth. It slides into each gear nicely. I'm going to stick with this for a while and see how it does when I move back to Chicago this November. 1500 miles under diesel power so far and loving it. Oh yea, i filled up on friday too from a 1/4. I'm getting 45.7mpg. and that's with a lead foot playing with my first turbo. lol

speed185187 said:

Thanks guys. I changed the tranny oil on Friday evening. It resembled the G52 fluid but it was very dark. No chunks or bits of anything in it . Filled it up with the Royal Purple (MityVac works great for filling) and shifting is very smooth. It slides into each gear nicely. I'm going to stick with this for a while and see how it does when I move back to Chicago this November. 1500 miles under diesel power so far and loving it. Oh yea, i filled up on friday too from a 1/4. I'm getting 45.7mpg. and that's with a lead foot playing with my first turbo. lol

Click to expand...

Congrats on your TDI!

See how the shifting feels over the next 2000 to 3000 miles - especially into 2nd. Since RP doesn't make a GL-4 fluid, your shifting should start easy, then get pretty sticky as the GL-5 additives plate on your synchros. If it doesn't smooth out after 3000 miles, dump the fluid before it starts to eat your synchronizers.

They say their 75W-90 is a replacement for G050 but the replacement for your car is the much lighter viscosity G052726. See the chart in post 90.

It says it's GL-4 on the bottle and here on their web page

http://www.rpmoil.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=71

AndyH said:

Congrats on your TDI!
.

They say their 75W-90 is a replacement for G050 but the replacement for your car is the much lighter viscosity G052726. See the chart in post 90.

Click to expand...

Amsoil works best for me..

speed185187 said:

It says it's GL-4 on the bottle and here on their web page

Click to expand...

Yup - GL-4 AND GL-5.

The chemistry required to meet GL-5 is for differentials and they don't have synchronizers. The GL-5 additives are heat activated and will collect on the synchros and other yellow metal parts.

Please report back when you've gotten past 3000 miles or so. Shifting may smooth out compared to the old fluid initially. If shifting stays smooth, or gets a bit harder than smooth again, you may be ok. If the additives start to plate on your synchros, shifting will get stickier over time and can lead to grinding and eventually yellow metal damage. Into 2nd gear may be the first place you feel the change.

Thanks andy, i'll keep an eye out for it. Next weekend i'm going to be doing a 2000 mile trip to detroit and back so that will definatly push it past the 3000 mark.

I have an 04 BEW 5-spd wagon, I purchased it with 94k now has 105k. I've noticed since I purchased it, when radio off and listening hard you can hear a slight (very slight) whine in the trans only on the downstroke say 3rd-4th gear. I assume it's the factory fill, I want to change the gear oil with a synthetic that will protect the gears well for the next 200K I plan to put on the car. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

IIRC the factory fill is synthetic..the G052 fluid.

Some have used Redline fluid of the correct weight, that is also GL-4.

So far so good, no problems, no hard shifts after it's hot. Just waiting for it to get colder out to see how it does

FWIW - today i installed ELF ELFMATIC G3 SYN synthetic automatic transmission fluid in my 2004 Golf PD-TDI manual transmission.

http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/FichePDF/lang_1/1063.pdf

i just want to point out the personal irony that i started this "stick with G52 in ur tranny - here's why..." thread, yet i have been using basically anything but G52. i had Motul Gear 300 (V@100c = 15.2), then Redline MTL (V = 10.6), then Redline D4 ATF (V = 7.5), and now ELFMATIC G3 SYN (V = 7.2)...

• my best fuel economy was with the OEM G52, shift performance was fine
• the Motul Gear 300 shift performance was bad - it got pulled quickly
• Redline MTL shifted OK, wear numbers were not as good as i would have expected (UOA is posted around here somewhere)
• Redline D4 was a shift performance improvement over MTL IMHO - a sample of it is at the lab now
• ELFMATIC G3 SYN shift performance seems great - but it's only been in for 10 hours - time and a UOA will tell...

cheers!

Yes I remember seeing your MTL UOA. You only did one, correct? It's possible that the MTL, given that it has a lot of ester in it, cleaned out some deposits left behind by the OEM oil. That's why, and I'm sure you'd agree, you need at least 2 UOA's on the same fluid before drawing conclusions.

Diesel Addict said:

Yes I remember seeing your MTL UOA. You only did one, correct? It's possible that the MTL, given that it has a lot of ester in it, cleaned out some deposits left behind by the OEM oil. That's why, and I'm sure you'd agree, you need at least 2 UOA's on the same fluid before drawing conclusions.

Click to expand...

i'm not drawing conclusions based on the results below, but because it is my TDI, i will not be using Redline D4 (or MTL) in the future.

i have ELF ELFMATIC G3 SYN in now... i'll post a UOA on it next year.

Fe wear rates of the three fluids i've used:

• 3.4ppm / 1000 miles Factory Fill OEM G52 (G052726A2 / G05272601)
  • note: the only reason the factory fill has the yellow bordered Monitor Compartment caution is because both the lab and i were expecting the fluid to be 75w90. we later learned the OEM G52 fluid is low viscosity by design.
• 5.8ppm / 1000 miles Redline MTL
• 15.5ppm / 1000 miles Redline D4

Based on this, the title of this thread seems to hold true - i.e. stick with G52. (Their is no logical explanation for my current fill of ELFMATIC G3 SYN other than curiosity.)

TDInownow said:

Okay, so given the date of the TSB, should I believe that there was G52 (synthetic) in my '03 Jetta from the factory, or G50?

Wondering if I'll start to experience the spider-gear hum now with the G50 in there. What exactly should I be listening for?

Click to expand...

Yup. New, my '01 had no hum, after putting in the G50 juice, it hums.

dieseldorf said:

I think the "spider gear noise" issue is at the heart of the switch from G50 to G52.
Thanks.

Click to expand...

Yup and the spyder gear noise is not harmful, just annoying. Much like brake pad squeal is not usualy harmful.
Its the gears turning against the thrust washers at the carrier. The earlier lube is not quite slippery enough to prevent it from "singing" as it rotates.

........

LessIsMore said:

Drained RL. MTL after 15K, and it came out quite blackened. It was still shifting well enough, but whine was excessive, and I became concerned about wear..

Click to expand...

Your transmission is in failure mode.
Be prepared to replace/repair it soon.

...........

LessIsMore said:

Your brain is in failure mode.

Click to expand...

Why do you say this?
Is there something you know about blackened lube?
If not then it is best to just listen...

VWTDIBeetle said:

Why do you say this?
Is there something you know about blackened lube?
If not then it is best to just listen...

Click to expand...

Redline gear lubes will clean tranny very well and they appear black after short time. you can drain and refill but it is not really necessary. The thin G50 or whatever it is sounds like a good choice for winter and colder climates but I wonder how much protection offers to the bearings in the tranny.

Dimitri16V said:

Redline gear lubes will clean tranny very well and they appear black after short time. you can drain and refill but it is not really necessary. The thin G50 or whatever it is sounds like a good choice for winter and colder climates but I wonder how much protection offers to the bearings in the tranny.

Click to expand...

As you probably already know when you look inside a VW 5 speed that was dissassembled, you will only see a small amount of metal on the magnet and the rest will be whistle clean.

So where is this black coming from when using the Redline? Worn metal gets caught on the magnet.

Black is found in the syncros through.. LOL

VWTDIBeetle said:

As you probably already know when you look inside a VW 5 speed that was dissassembled, you will only see a small amount of metal on the magnet and the rest will be whistle clean.

So where is this black coming from when using the Redline? Worn metal gets caught on the magnet.

Black is found in the syncros through.. LOL

Click to expand...

the "black stuff" is surface corrosion from bronze parts. That corrosion will happen whether you use yellow metal safe gear oil or G50 or ATF. Using the wrong lube will just accelerate it.

Are you pretending to be a smart a$$ ?

LOL

Dimitri16V said:

the "black stuff" is surface corrosion from bronze parts. That corrosion will happen whether you use yellow metal safe gear oil or G50 or ATF. Using the wrong lube will just accelerate it.

Are you pretending to be a smart a$$ ?

LOL

Click to expand...

Please explain why there is no "black stuff" with the factory lube?
Does the "black stuff" indicate that Redline is damaging the transaxle?

No I think the black stuff may be a normal chemical reaction. I had a Borg Warner that did the same thing with GM fluid. Write Redline and they can tell you - my guess its ester.

Mine was black.

VWTDIBeetle said:

Please explain why there is no "black stuff" with the factory lube?
Does the "black stuff" indicate that Redline is damaging the transaxle?

Click to expand...

When I drained my factory lube @ 50,000 miles it was black. That was on 05 TDI 5sp Wagon. I was shocked, but color is a poor way to determine fluid performance. Only an analysis will shed light on the situation.

Question:

The Bentley CD for my '04 has a footnote in the "Fluid Capacities" Chart that says that all 02J transmissions are to use the G052 A2 (Mineral-based) gear lube.

The same Bentley CD neglects to list my 02J subcode (EUH) transaxle in my '04 in the gear ratios chart (the 04s with the 1.9 and same HP have another subcode listed in the chart) and this "specifications chart" for all the 02Js states either G055 or G050 oil is used. I think VW changed their view and went to a universal G052 mineral-based oil, possibly for ease of stocking one oil. The synthetic G052 is specified in a different VW transmisssion, but I forget which one.

Would it be beneficial to use the G052 Synthetic gear oil? I do live where it can get down to 10 - 15 degrees F. in the winter. I read that others have experienced thick gear oil in the winter using the mineral-based G052. Any thoughts? The synthetic is about 3 times more expensive, $10 vs. $30 a liter. Will the synthetic be detrimental? I wonder if it lubricates better, because when I canged my gear oil at 50,000 miles, there was a lot of metallic swirls in it, indicating wear metal contamination. But I've noticed this in almost any manual gearbox I have changed fluid in at about that mileage.

--Nate

switching back

Well.. I hate to admit defeat but the royal purple trans oil doesn't work very well in my car. The first 1000 miles were perfect, nice and smooth, hot or cold. Just after I got past the 2500 mile mark it started getting harder to shift into 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. Stoped by the dealer and bought G52 and went right back to drain and fill. Hit the road and wow, it feels like a totally different transmission. Much better. So my lesson learned. I'm always going to stick the the OEM G52

speed185187 said:

Well.. I hate to admit defeat but the royal purple trans oil doesn't work very well in my car. The first 1000 miles were perfect, nice and smooth, hot or cold. Just after I got past the 2500 mile mark it started getting harder to shift into 2nd, 3rd, and 5th. Stoped by the dealer and bought G52 and went right back to drain and fill. Hit the road and wow, it feels like a totally different transmission. Much better. So my lesson learned. I'm always going to stick the the OEM G52

Click to expand...

Was the color unusual on removal?
This is exactly the same problem I had with Mobil1.
Fortunately by removing the lube before there is damage to the syncros, in particular 2nd gear, it saved my transmission.

The color was just a little bit darker then what it was going in. Light purple when brand new and slightly darker coming out. I drove almost 3000 miles with the royal purple in there.

Brought forward from post 236. One new VW fluid - G052911 - thanks to LC.

(Manual Tranny Fluids)

VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
128 159.0 18.3 = AMSOIL CTL SAE 50 Powershift GL-1
..............16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL-4/-5
..............15.6 = VW G50/G51 GL-4
185 90.0 15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL-4
..............15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90 GL-5
..............15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90 GL-4/-5
..............15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90 GL-4/-5
132 116.0 14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90 GL-5
177 84.5 14.7 = AMSOIL MTG 75-90 GL-4
..... 76.6 14.2 = VW G052-911
133 76.2 11.0 = AMSOIL CTJ SAE 30 Powershift GL-1
183 56.2 10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL-4
194 47.1 9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler) GL-?
208 41.6 9.1 = Penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid GL-?
198 34.0 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL CTG SAE 10W Powershift GL-1
..... 31.2 6.5 = VW G-052-171-A2 GL-?
..... 35.1 6.4 = VW G-055-726-A2 GL-?
..............6.3 = VW G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) GL-?


(Automatic Tranny Fluids - except for Redline D4 dual-use)

VI Vis@40C Vis@100C
.............8.3 = Honda CVT Fluid
.............7.6 = Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF

198 33.5 7.5 = Redline D4 ATF Dexron III / Mercon / API GL-4
.............7.4 = Mobil 1 Synthetic Dexron/Mercon
197 32.5 7.2 = Redline Synthetic ATF Dexron II / Mercon
.............7.1 = Mobil 1 Synthetic Multi-vehicle ATF
138 40.5 7.1 = AMSOIL Ford type F auto trans fluid
168 37.4 6.8 = AMSOIL Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF
..........5.5-6 = Ford Mercon SP