Stage 2 cam effectiveness

I have been getting ready to do a timing belt job on my 02 ALH Jetta so I figured that I would do a cam swap while I was in there. I have been reading up on cams and have seen a couple of diverging opinions as to the effectiveness of the cam when it contest to power generation. So here is the baseline:



Parts show up next week and I will dyno the car again afterward. My question to our experts is what other variables should I log before the swap to keep the improvements/decreases for the cam isolated?

Have you read this thread? Digital_Corpus has just completed a series of dyno tests of the stock cam and the Colt stage II cam, all on the same day on the same dyno. You may want to follow all his links to get a full idea of what he found.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=339474

The thread also has an extensive list of suggestions for variables to log both before and after your cam swap. Just about all your questions should be answered there.

Glad to see someone else doing the same type of test. It will ad a lot to the data base.

You should give us a list of all the mods you have made to the engine to get to the current 150 hp level. I rather suspect Digital_Corpus will ask you for a copy of the raw dyno files and what to convert them to the same SAE standard he converted his dyno files to. Just so we have everything reported to the same standard.

Again, very happy to see someone else going to this level of effort to test results. Thank You!

Thanks for showing me that thread. I sub'd. Car has he following:
PP520's
VNT17
DSMIC
SB SMF and endurance clutch
Malone Stage 4 with dynamic EGR
2.5" Turboback Exhaust
OMI
DG Shift kit
Gaugues Oil press/ temp, Boost, EGT

I wouldn't waste $$$ on an upgraded cam after seeing Digital_Corpuses thread. Pretty much proved what was said for a while now. Cam upgrades don't make much of a difference unless you're really heavily modified.

Already did. We will find out the $ per HP.

You should see a small hp (8hp) gain up top but most importantly is the change of the torque curve. It will hold torque longer. What day are you planning to dyno. Ive been curios to ser what I put down now (currently on 50/50 meth and 30hp nitrous). I'm in the Houston Heights area.

2barthriller said:

You should see a small hp (8hp) gain up top but most importantly is the change of the torque curve. It will hold torque longer. What day are you planning to dyno. Ive been curios to ser what I put down now (currently on 50/50 meth and 30hp nitrous). I'm in the Houston Heights area.

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Do you have some back to back dynos to post in support of the 8 horsepower gain from just the change from a stock cam to a Colt stage II? Please post your dyno runs.

2barthriller said:

You should see a small hp (8hp) gain up top but most importantly is the change of the torque curve. It will hold torque longer. What day are you planning to dyno. Ive been curios to ser what I put down now (currently on 50/50 meth and 30hp nitrous). I'm in the Houston Heights area.

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I'm going to do the job sometime in the next two weeks. Once I get her running and any kinks worked out, I will let you know. I go to DD Research in Sealy. It is a long drive but they have the best Dyno in town. You should come out. They charge me $60 for three pulls.


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It wouldnt help. I'm putting power through my vw reman 01m. My dyno starts in 3rd @2000 to prevent the transmission from down shifting. Sorry

john.jackson9213 said:

Do you have some back to back dynos to post in support of the 8 horsepower gain from just the change from a stock cam to a Colt stage II? Please post your dyno runs.

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I couldn't find anyone with dyno runs before and after. That is why I am doing this project. If there are some, point me in that direction.

Yes having a upgraded cam comes after every other modification out there!! How much lift does the cam have that your using 10.5 / 11.0

mojogoes said:

Yes having a upgraded cam comes after every other modification out there!! How much lift does the cam have that your using 10.5 / 11.0

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I actually don't know the lift. I am going with a frank06 cam and I don't know his specs.

So your buying / fitting something you don't know the spec's of? While some mods of a certain description / use you may fit and be happy with but a very doubt a cam is in this group

mojogoes said:

So your buying / fitting something you don't know the spec's of? While some mods of a certain description / use you may fit and be happy with but a very doubt a cam is in this group

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Only the dyno will tell...

Unfortunately the dyno will only tell you if the cam has made any more power given that you've taken the pulls in similar conditions like temps etc!! But what it will not do is show / tell you the spec's of the cam.


P.S Is it a cam that's a straight fit or does other clearance modifications have to be made.

I don't know if anyone knows the specs of the Frank06 cam. If someone here does, please tell. It is a straight fit cam and doesn't require any other mods.

Ok cheers! it must be relatively mild then!

Lift only.

mrchill said:

Lift only.

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Glad to see you post here. If I recall correctly MrChill, you did some testing years ago with a Colt cam against the stock VW cam. Seem to recall you found a bit less horsepower with the Colt cam.

Can you fill us in a bit more? Or correct my memory.

Thanks,

*Update*

Finally got to removing the stock cam. Timing belt is off and job is about 1/2 done.





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You will need a retune to take full advantage of the new cam. Digital Corpus just changed the cam and documented not change in power output. BUT, the tune was constant. Matt Whitbread did a cam change and a retune years ago. He picked up 10 hp and 14 lb/ft. Confirmed that with Whitbread just 2 weeks ago.

I'll be doing a similar comparison once I get back on the dyno to get a new baseline after the pp764 to r520 swap.

You're have replaced the lifters also ?
When new cam is placed new lifters also they wear in cam.

mk1-83 said:

You're have replaced the lifters also ?
When new cam is placed new lifters also they wear in cam.

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Yup, got new lifters too.

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john.jackson9213 said:

You will need a retune to take full advantage of the new cam. Digital Corpus just changed the cam and documented not change in power output. BUT, the tune was constant. Matt Whitbread did a cam change and a retune years ago. He picked up 10 hp and 14 lb/ft. Confirmed that with Whitbread just 2 weeks ago.

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Will get Malone to give me a new tune.

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Got everything put back together and running fine. Checked timing and all. I ran the first batch of break-in oil for 30 min and and now working on driving the car around this week for the second set of break- in oil to so its job. Pics to follow



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Does a vnt17 turbo add any power on it's own?

No? So I guess it looks like a vnt17 is not a valid performance upgrade, either.

Just like any airflow mod whatsoever.

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KERMA said:

Does a vnt17 turbo add any power on it's own?

No? So I guess it looks like a vnt17 is not a valid performance upgrade, either.

Just like any airflow mod whatsoever.

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I believe the VNT17 with its larger compressor wheel moves more air more efficiently. Before I had a tune and had swapped in the VNT17, the car has absolutely no noticeable gain. Once tuned, the car was a different car. First impressions from the new cam seems to be better drivability. It almost seems to build boost faster.

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jfbsaratoga said:

I believe the VNT17 with its larger compressor wheel moves more air more efficiently. Before I had a tune and had swapped in the VNT17, the car has absolutely no noticeable gain. Once tuned, the car was a different car. First impressions from the new cam seems to be better drivability. It almost seems to build boost faster.

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Exactly, but that is the kind of thing that won't show on a dyno.

that other thread is a straw man.