Crank seal replacement

Vince Waldon · May 15, 2010

Windex said:
Caveat, I have my compressor cranked up to max out at 130psi, and my gun doesn't have a hope in heck of getting that bolt out if the pressure is down around 100-110 psi. Also, using an extension in between the socket and the gun is a sure way to eat up torque and have the bolt refuse to come out.

There's the secret sauce right there... excellent info. Might have to upgrade to an IR when my el-cheapo dies out.

BrentB · May 28, 2010

Franko6 said:

Hey Frank, Can I get the length and thread size from those bolts are using so I can get them before hand. I am going to make up a holder on my own but it would be nice to not have to run out and buy bolts while in the middle of the job. I think I am going to drop the oil pan and replace the carrier and seal at the same time since mine has likely never been replaced. Do I worry about upsetting the front seal by doing this?

NW_Dale · Mar 9, 2011

Seal removal tool

Resurrecting this post because in my TDIClub research, I've seen that it is one of the more authoritative for my 2002 Jetta.

I'm located in the Maple Valley area of the Puget Sound, in western Washington state. Does anyone in this area have one of these tools (3203) that I could borrow or rent?

Thanks.

P.S. The po-boy style crank holder worked great. Using a screwdriver to remove the seal, not so much. Reading some of these posts, you'd think the seal will practically fall off, or jump out, one the sprocket gear is removed (a mechanic I trust told me that he uses the screwdriver method as well. So, I'm not pooh-poohing that approach. YMMV). Not so in my case (sigh).

jasonTDI · Mar 10, 2011

No way. They are metal lined. The tool works for about 30 uses and then....no so good....

ninedee_golf_tdi · Mar 16, 2011

What Tool ?

jasonTDI said:
The tool works for about 30 uses and then....no so good....

I need the seal removal tool from MATRA, unless someone has made a better mousetrap, but don't want to buy it if it is weak.

NW_Dale · Mar 17, 2011

I did order the seal removal tool from an online tool vendor. The thing is incredibly slick. It pulled the seal out in less than 10 minutes.

I think I also figured out why my particular seal was so difficult to remove. There are peen marks, believe it or not, on the side of the seal annulus opposite the crankshaft surface. I haven't seen these in any pictures that show those, and the Bentley book does not say that should be done. I expected a spring-loaded seal since this is an '02, but I pulled out a PTFE seal.

gmenounos · Jun 10, 2012

So I was in the middle of replacing my timing belt and I noticed some oil on the very bottom of the lower timing belt cover. After removing the cover, this is what I see:

The bottom area behind the timing cover is covered with a layer of oily grit. The timing belt itself is completely clean and dry. It lasted the scheduled 80,000 miles without incident. Does it sound like I need to replace the crank seal? The engine has 145,000 miles on it. I'm not crazy about attempting to replace this seal unless I really need to.

If I do need to replace the seal, does anyone know anything about the quality of these tools that World Impex is selling?

Seal puller compatible with 3203: $65
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/oem-seal-puller-crank_13657.html

Seal installer compatible with 3265: $24
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/oem-front-crank-seal-installer_13707.html

Seal installer compatible with T10053: $30
http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/oem-bhw-guide-sleeve-and-compression-sleeve_971312.html

Thanks, Greg

tditom · Jun 10, 2012

Its a judgement call, Greg, If you are not using a ton of oil or leaving puddles everywhere then you probably can let it go for quite awhile.

This is one of those things where if it doesn't go right then you could end up with a worse leak then when you started.

Windex · Jun 10, 2012

Differing opinion here. If the seal is even remotely seeping, I replace it.

I have found that most crank seals that I have had to re-do come back with the seal cocked in the front cover bore, or installed so that the seal lip sits on the edge of the groove worn by the previous seal.

If it is removed and installed properly, the seal shouldn't leak.

Note, I avoid the newer style seals and stick to the older style with the garter spring, and make sure that the seal lip sits outside or inside the old seal groove.

DCELL · Jun 10, 2012

When I did it, I took the long way around. Rather than buy the fancy tools, I made my own crank holder tool to remove the pulley, then I just took off the entire housing and did it on the bench. The leak I was working on was MUCH worse, BTW. just my $0.02.

billmn · Jun 11, 2012

OK my turn for the stupid question of the day

I just did a head replacement, TB job, and seal replacement and my car is leaking like a sive.... SO I am off to replace the seal again. I am reading that the new seal should not rest in the same groove as the old seal did? I just wanted to make sure of that before I goof up another seal

Also with a car with 315K miles should I upset the system and put in a new silicone crankshaft seal, or should I stick with the old style?
Bill

ymz · Jun 11, 2012

billmn said:
I am reading that the new seal should not rest in the same groove as the old seal did? I just wanted to make sure of that before I goof up another seal Also with a car with 315K miles should I upset the system and put in a new silicone crankshaft seal, or should I stick with the old style?

I could be wrong, but I thought that the VW crankshaft seals for these are the Teflon type... Those must be installed dry and left in place for 4 hours (minimum) to recover their shape... As well, if you had a Teflon style seal in there already, you're not supposed to switch back to the internal-spring style... as for the groove... since you most likely cannot duplicate the exact position of the old seal, you want to find a fresh surface away from any deformation of the crank surface...

Yuri

billmn · Jun 11, 2012

ymz said:
I could be wrong, but I thought that the VW crankshaft seals for these are the Teflon type... Those must be installed dry and left in place for 4 hours (minimum) to recover their shape... As well, if you had a Teflon style seal in there already, you're not supposed to switch back to the internal-spring style... as for the groove... since you most likely cannot duplicate the exact position of the old seal, you want to find a fresh surface away from any deformation of the crank surface...

Yuri

Thanks Yuri,

I know that the previous versions were the old style (with the spring), so if I read it correctly I sould be able to use either and just wanted to ensure I was getting the best one.

Bill

jettawreck · Jun 11, 2012

billmn said:
Thanks Yuri,

I know that the previous versions were the old style (with the spring), so if I read it correctly I sould be able to use either and just wanted to ensure I was getting the best one.

Bill

When Nick replaced the seal in the '01 there was no waiting for it to "form". When he was done I drove it home. I cannot recall if we discussed seal material options, but I provided the seal and crank sprocket bolt.

billmn · Jun 11, 2012

jettawreck said:
When Nick replaced the seal in the '01 there was no waiting for it to "form". When he was done I drove it home. I cannot recall if we discussed seal material options, but I provided the seal and crank sprocket bolt.

Thanks Jetta

I know that any TB kit that is sold by our trusty vendors that I have bought for my car have included the old style seal, so I was leaning that way.

Bill

jettawreck · Jun 11, 2012

billmn said:
Thanks Jetta I know that any TB kit that is sold by our trusty vendors that I have bought for my car have included the old style seal, so I was leaning that way.

Bill

I haven't seen a TB kit that came with the crank seal. Cam and vac pump seal, yes.

ymz · Jun 11, 2012

jettawreck said:
I haven't seen a TB kit that came with the crank seal.

Some of the vendors sell a so-called "High Mileage Timing Belt Kit" that includes one... (I don't know whether they include a Teflon type or a Spring type...)

Yuri

jettawreck · Jun 11, 2012

ymz said:
Some of the vendors sell a so-called "High Mileage Timing Belt Kit" that includes one... (I don't know whether they include a Teflon type or a Spring type...)

Yuri

Thanks, for the correction, Yuri.
Actually, I think that's not a bad idea for higher mileage. Given the fact that my '01 started leaking about midway thru the scheduled interval, I would consider changing the crank seal if the original seal has/had over 200K miles and it was TB change time. I would hate to do a belt and have the old seal begin leaking soon thereafter.
On the other hand, Nick did the crank seal quickly and for not a lot of expense, so its not a big gamble.
Spin the wheel.

ymz · Jun 11, 2012

jettawreck said:
On the other hand, Nick did the crank seal quickly and for not a lot of expense

I'm sure that Nick's percentage of success with these would be a lot higher than mine (Mr. Murphy has been a long-time companion) or most other casual mechanics... (I replaced the seal when replacing the oil pump chain and tensioner (and pump) at the 400,000 mile timing belt change - should have done it one timing belt change earlier, as the oil pump tensioner had too much wear for my comfort level...)

YMMV...

Yuri.

PDJetta · Jun 12, 2012

As for the seal lip groove that gets worn into the crankshaft, I thought only the old-style (garter spring) seals did this. The seal lip, forced against the crankshaft by the garter spring, cuts the groove over time. If the new-style teflon seals don't wear a groove, then no need to worry about it. Even with teflon seal previous use, I would insure the sealing surface on the crankshaft is smooth.

--Nate

MotorCityMadman · Jun 13, 2012

After reading this thread on replacing the crank oil seal I thought it was more complicated than it was. Drilled a hole in the seal and put my bent needle nose thru the opening and levered it out. Tada!

DCELL · Jun 16, 2012

I tried that once, it ended up coming out little chipped piece by little chipped piece. I'd say you got pretty lucky!

MotorCityMadman · Jun 16, 2012

Better to be lucky than good!

PDJetta · Jun 17, 2012

MotorCityMadman said:
After reading this thread on replacing the crank oil seal I thought it was more complicated than it was. Drilled a hole in the seal and put my bent needle nose thru the opening and levered it out. Tada!

I've done similar: Drilled a small hole in the face of the seal, but wedged the sharp point of a seal puller in the hole and levered away. Sometimes I do have to drill another hole in a new location and try again because the seal metal shreds. I'd rather do it this way instead of risking gouging the seal bore or the rotating shaft it seals.

--Nate

turbotec · Aug 7, 2012

I would also like to know what size those bolts are that go into the block. I want to buy them before start this project!!! Thanks franko6.

Franko6 said:
Ok, here's the po'boy special... There aren't $300 worth of tools, it's compact and the whole kit fits into the smallest Priority Mail box. I've yet to have USPS lose one of those... at least, not yet...

Here is how the crank hold goes on...

All you need to do is bring the engine to TDC, clean out the bolt holes at the corners of the block put the four bolts in finger tight. Use a 3/4" breaker bar,cause if you use 1/2", it will be a 'broken' bar.

I also include the hylomar sealant; keeping in line with the po'boy concept. If you buy the tube, it's $12.50. You use enough of a blob to cover a nickel and the next time you use the tube, it's cured through and through.
Just use what you need and return the tube and counterhold set back to me for the next po'boy.

You could make the tools, but it'd take you an hour. $20 and the shipping,you get the crank bolt, the seal and you borrow the tools and a tube of sealant. Use what you need of the sealant (more does not make it better) and return the tube with my counterhold tools and bolts.

The ALH seal and bolt set are pictured. The AHU/ 1Z set have different seal and bolt. I've got them too.

Tighten the ALH crank bolt to 88 ft lbs + 1/4 turn
Tighten the AHU crank bolt to 66 ft lbs + 1/4 turn
Tighten the flange bolts to 7 ft lbs. No more then that...

audiphile · Sep 12, 2012

Here is what we do here... use the pulley holder but take out the fingers, and use the holes to put OLD crank bolts through

tditom · Sep 12, 2012

^^^That looks like it might work if you could get the arm wedged against something, or have you been successful holding it by hand?

audiphile · Sep 12, 2012

tditom said:
^^^That looks like it might work if you could get the arm wedged against something, or have you been successful holding it by hand?

two person job, with this tool at least. Maybe possible by myself, but have not tried!

runonbeer · Sep 12, 2012

I do almost the same thing but I have the tool bolted/welded to an old balancer that I bolt to the crank. I wrap a chain around the accessory bracket and through the arms of the tool. When I tighten it I just put the belt on first and run the engine over until it will allow the tool to hit the control arm. Works great.

I almost never have to change crank seals though.

Dodoma · Sep 12, 2012

You need not buy any special tools such as "3415" to counterhold the crankshaft and loosen the center bolt. Use atleast 18 inches pipe wrench or longer one available at Harbor Tools for about $7-8 and Home Depot for $16 (Husky brand). Fit the pipe wrench teeths over the crankshaft sprocklet or gear valleys and adjust the jaw so that it prevents the crankshaft from rotating. I have used this method many times on 1.6 and since the gear on 1.9 is similar, it should work.

Crank seal replacement

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