BRM cam worn out after 30k miles?!?!?

So, I have a 2006 Jetta TDI, I got it from my sister after she hit a deer and got t-boned in the same day... she replaced the camshaft and lifters with the kit from ID parts at 235k miles. It now has 267k and when I was replacing the tandem pump the other day, I pulled the valve cover and found that the cam and lifters were starting to wear. I've done the oil changes at 5000 mile intervals with 5w40 synthetic since I got it, in not a hundred percent sure how often my sister changed it, she had it for 20k miles after replacing the cam. I'm going to be replacing the car with a b5.5 Passat, but am scratching my head wondering what could cause the cam to go so soon... I'm going to ask id parts what their warranty is. Has anybody else had this problem of it going out so soon?

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Hi Mozambiquer, very unfortunate situation. Do you know if your sister was using the proper 5W-40 synthetic meeting the VW505.01 spec? Are you? It was made abundantly clear to me that premature cam failures could be a result of not using the correct oil as it has additives to protect this high-wear equipment.

https://www.iatn.net/forums/13/41481/tdi-camshaft-wear-warning-signs

Ken

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KenGee said:

Hi Mozambiquer, very unfortunate situation. Do you know if your sister was using the proper 5W-40 synthetic meeting the VW505.01 spec? Are you? It was made abundantly clear to me that premature cam failures could be a result of not using the correct oil as it has additives to protect this high-wear equipment.

https://www.iatn.net/forums/13/41481/tdi-camshaft-wear-warning-signs

Ken

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I believe so, I was using Archer 5w40, which they told me meets 505.01 though I'm not so sure after I looked on their website and its not one of the listed specs. I'll have to call them tomorrow to confirm that it is indeed 505.01 spec.

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That's the wrong oil. Looks like it's primarily for over the road (heavy duty) trucks. No VW certifications.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

That's the wrong oil. Looks like it's primarily for over the road (heavy duty) trucks. No VW certifications.

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FYI I purchased my 2006 TDI brand new with 16 miles on it. It was dealer serviced with their 505.01 Snake oil from day 1 and the car was serviced twice as often as VW recommended on the advice of my dealer. I also started doing used oil analysis in the cars 2nd year after finding out about the notorious BRM camshaft issues and in its 3rd year my oil samples started to indicate elevated iron. In the last year of my warranty I had an oil sample report come back with a warning that I had a major engine failure in progress due to the extremely high iron content and neither VW or my dealer would do anything for me. I replaced the garbage soft cast iron OEM Camshaft with a forged steel billet Colt cam and the black nitiride cam followers. The dealer hasn't serviced or touched my car since then as I decided to do my own and now follow VW's recommended annual oil change interval and use Shell Rotella T6 5W40 and add 1/2 bottle of ZDDP cam saver with every oil change. 2020 will be my 7th year and about 70,000 miles since the cam was replaced and have had no more issues.

To the best of my knowledge only Estas in Turkey makes BEW, BRM, and BHW camshafts. These days they're all billet, compared to the cast cams that came in the cars and were available in the aftermarket for a number of years. Estas cams are sold under multiple labels, including Kolbenshcmidt, AMC, Febi, and Colt. They should last longer than cast cams.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

That's the wrong oil. Looks like it's primarily for over the road (heavy duty) trucks. No VW certifications.

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Nope nothing wrong with that oil. CJ4 synthetic, if, it is the diesel Gold.

Typical Specifications and Performance Data:
SAE GRADE 5W-40
API Gravity 33.7
Viscosity Index 170
Viscosity, cSt @ 40 °C 86
Viscosity, cSt @ 100 °C 14.2
Pour point, °C -45
TBN 10
Flash COC ,°F 445
Cold Crank Simulator cP @-20°C 6,300

The above specs are very similar to the CJ4 shell T6 which has been used successfully.

The cast steel cams can be successful if they meet the minimum surface finish and hardness quality control standards as stated by the manufacture and should not wear followers in 30,000 miles.

The billet cams may or may not have better quality control. I was under the impresion the billet cams are turned from billets and not drop forgings. You would expect it to be better since it is more expensive to produce( batch production).

It should be noted that cast steel cams are likely poured and flame hardened
and then ground continuously and could be harder to maintain grinding finish standards.

If a proper "installation", along with a 20 minute no load breakin was done and oil changed and then changed at 500 miles, then I would be inclined to blame manufacture quality control.

I'm not going to engage in an discussion about oil, but if I had a PD VW I'd only run 5w40 oil that meets VW's 505.01 spec. It could help, and I don't see any reason not to use the correct oil. That would not include Rotella, at least for me.

In the past, people testing PD cast cam hardness found a lot of variations. Billets seem to be better. Estas is a good company, family run, old school. We sell their cams, predominately in kits packaged by AMC. We've had few, if any, issues.

James & Son said:

Nope nothing wrong with that oil. CJ4 synthetic, if, it is the diesel Gold.



Typical Specifications and Performance Data:

SAE GRADE 5W-40

API Gravity 33.7

Viscosity Index 170

Viscosity, cSt @ 40 °C 86

Viscosity, cSt @ 100 °C 14.2

Pour point, °C -45

TBN 10

Flash COC ,°F 445

Cold Crank Simulator cP @-20°C 6,300



The above specs are very similar to the CJ4 shell T6 which has been used successfully.



The cast steel cams can be successful if they meet the minimum surface finish and hardness quality control standards as stated by the manufacture and should not wear followers in 30,000 miles.



The billet cams may or may not have better quality control. I was under the impresion the billet cams are turned from billets and not drop forgings. You would expect it to be better since it is more expensive to produce( batch production).



It should be noted that cast steel cams are likely poured and flame hardened

and then ground continuously and could be harder to maintain grinding finish standards.



If a proper "installation", along with a 20 minute no load breakin was done and oil changed and then changed at 500 miles, then I would be inclined to blame manufacture quality control.

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That's interesting. What is the difference with the 505.01 oil?
Basically I'm coming to the conclusion that, yes, I was not using 505.01 oil, but that may not have been the cause of the cam wearing out.
Mine is a billet cam with the black lifters. My dad was the one who installed it, so I'm not sure about whether it was broken in correctly, I think it was correctly installed though.
I know that at one point, my sister had taken it to a local diesel shop, where the guy was supposed to set the timing. When it came back, it was hard starting. Ended up he had installed the timing belt one notch off, and tried to turn the cam pulley in the slots to make up for it. I took the timing belt off and reinstalled it with the correct tools,and then it worked. (I decided that guy wasn't going to do any mechanical work on my cars... )
So, it ran a bit off time for a while, and had extended crank. Then in the last few weeks, the tandem pump was going out, so if it sat very long, it would take a long time to start.
Would the extended crank cause more cam wear?
Also last oil change, I did a BG engine flush, though that's supposed to be better on your engine... I've sent my oil in for analysis each oil change for a while, and nothing has been abnormal.

I may contact id parts and see what their warranty policy is on the cam, though I'm thinking I'll sell the car, with a cam or not. I got a B5.5 Passat wagon to replace it with.

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I don't think timing being off would affect cam life. But if your lift pump failed, it puts additional stress on the tandem pump (at the end of the cam) If this pump starts to leak it will dilute the engine oil under the valve cover with fuel. That will kill the cam quickly.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I don't think timing being off would affect cam life. But if your lift pump failed, it puts additional stress on the tandem pump (at the end of the cam) If this pump starts to leak it will dilute the engine oil under the valve cover with fuel. That will kill the cam quickly.

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I should maybe send in an oil sample and see if there is fuel in the oil. That could be a possibility, especially since the last bit it got a lot worse, so I got a new OEM one.

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I spoke with ID parts yesterday, the warranty is one year, which I figured it was probably out of warranty, but I'm leaning towards that it got fuel in the oil, since the tandem pump was leaking down, and it wasn't going to the outside... [emoji24]
I'm going to get an oil sample and send it in. I just got a b5.5 Passat, which I'll be using soon, after I get it to tip top shape.
Then I'll be selling my poor greyscale Harlequin as is. I don't think it'll be worth my time to fix it back up, since it needs some body work too (A deer ran into me a couple of weeks back)

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I'm still on my original cam at 212K, I quit using 505.01 5w40 around 50K miles and have used nothing but Mobile 1 TDT 5w40 since (non-505.01), my cam still shows almost no wear. I may have just got a good cam from the factory, but based on many peoples oil samples here of 505.01 vs Mobile 1 or Shell Rotella T6 5W40 I ditched the 505.01.

Your wear may vary....