Received Tesla Model 3, gave back TDI to VW

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
We can piss into the wind all we like, but electrification of the auto fleet is coming. They will cheaper, cleaner, and safer. As much as I enjoy my piston powered stuff, I don't feel threatened by electric vehicles. The whole "coal argument" gets more stale as those ancient powerplants get decommissioned and replaced with cleaner alternatives. I assume unicorn farts are primarily methane- so yes, that is an option :D .
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
We can piss into the wind all we like, but electrification of the auto fleet is coming. They will cheaper, cleaner, and safer. As much as I enjoy my piston powered stuff, I don't feel threatened by electric vehicles. The whole "coal argument" gets more stale as those ancient powerplants get decommissioned and replaced with cleaner alternatives. I assume unicorn farts are primarily methane- so yes, that is an option :D .
I don’t feel threatened by electric at all. Once they have decent range, I’ll gladly drive one. I did two road trips last year of approximately 2,000 miles each with a few days of driving over 500 miles in a day, so those low range cars wouldn’t work.

I think electric could solve this if they went to a uniform battery and battery exchanges where you can get you in and out in five minutes.

But for now, 220 mile range and sitting around for hours waiting on a charge just won’t work for me. I’ll let the beta testers get a worthy car on the road for me in a couple of decades hopefully.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I'm driving 2200 miles from Maine to Texas starting tomorrow morning. I generally do 900 miles the first two days and 400 on the third day. The tdi is fantastic for long road trips, no doubt about it. In five years time(when I'll probably be thinking about a new car), I expect there will be EV options that are nearly as convenient for most road tripping.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
We can piss into the wind all we like, but electrification of the auto fleet is coming. They will cheaper, cleaner, and safer. As much as I enjoy my piston powered stuff, I don't feel threatened by electric vehicles. The whole "coal argument" gets more stale as those ancient powerplants get decommissioned and replaced with cleaner alternatives. I assume unicorn farts are primarily methane- so yes, that is an option :D .
Great, we are on the same page. No need to create false dichotomies of electric vs TDI or light duty diesel. Light duty diesel cars are such a minority in the US and for an ICE they are much better overall (environment + performance) than a gasoline or a gasoline-hybrid car. Light duty diesel is the 'bridge technology' needed to make the transition to EVs in the mid-term.

Many cities in the US still have air pollution problems (see the Lung Association website and others) but have such a small percentage of light duty diesel cars. The problem: gasoline cars (mostly SUVs and trucks) that emit all kinds of pollutants (such as VOCs and other bad stuff) and are very inefficient (20 to 30 percent worse than a comparable light duty diesel vehicle.

At least GM is bringing to the dealers the Equinox and Terrain with a turbocharged diesel engine getting in the mid to high 30's MPG. There is some hope to help the environment with a family car that Americans might consider buying instead of something that gets less than 30 MPG (most SUVs out there).
 

greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
if they could "standardize" the electric vehicle battery pack so that they could be swapped out in under 5 minutes (the time to fill up a fuel tank) then maybe they can be practical
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
Have they learned how to run an electric power plant on unicorn farts yet, or are they still using coal?
We charge our Fiat with power made from methane sucked out of the landfill a few miles away...

Also, why would you want to swap the whole battery pack when recharging it only takes 15 minutes? (Tesla can do that today)

-J
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
We charge our Fiat with power made from methane sucked out of the landfill a few miles away...
Also, why would you want to swap the whole battery pack when recharging it only takes 15 minutes? (Tesla can do that today)
-J
Sure, if you happen to meticulously plan a route to line up with their supercharging stations and are satisfied with partial charges.

Hey, I’m all for electric, but it’s feasibility is a long way off for people who don’t live in urban bubbles like NOVA.
 

Power_Not_Speed

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
Nicaragua
TDI
2006 Jetta
I would be more than happy to go electric. Unfortunately I don't live in the US and when there often drive 250 miles per day with several 1,000 mile days. But if I had a 'normal' life with a daily commute I would definitely have an EV. More power, better economy than a TDI, quiet, few moving parts. Love it.

But for now the Jetta does what I need. I wish my needs were different though. I like moving towards the future, and relying on dead dinos is the past.

Funny that a major criticism of the Tesla is that it's a luxury car you can't drive from LA to San Francisco on a charge, yet when I drive the I-5 i rarely see a newer Merc or BMW there, more like beaters and rentacars.

Haters. If they can't have it they gotta pretend they don't want it. For the vast majority of the people who live in cities EVs are the answer. It's just a matter of time. All the horses in NYC didn't disappear when the first curved dash Olds wobbled its way downtown, but disappear they did.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
Sure, if you happen to meticulously plan a route to line up with their supercharging stations and are satisfied with partial charges.
Go to the nav screen, enter your destination. It plans the route, where you need to stop, how much battery you'll have at each stop, and how long you'll need to charge at each stop. I'd hardly call that meticulous.

-J
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
One fuel stop on our way to Detroit last Friday had the wrong size nozzle, and another had such poor fuel flow (my indication of no filter maintenance) that we went to another station. And a third was disgustingly filthy. Maybe supercharging stops wouldn't be so unpleasant.
 

251

TDI Owner/Operator
Joined
May 11, 2002
Location
NW IN
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL
Checking out what Tesla has for chargers from South Bend, IN to West Virginia it's all doable until after Morgantown, WV. Every year I go to either Elkins or Cass in WV. There are ZERO chargers in that part of the state! Now one can go to Weston (south of Morgantown on I-79) but from there it is 90-95 miles one way to Cass which would be close to a 200 mile range out and back. But add in fact hotels are in Elkins which is 50 miles from Cass - there's a 100 right there. Elkins to Weston is 40 miles. Now add in that the event I attend can go until 11pm and next morning starts at 7am or so. (Can't just show up any time - MUST be there at appointed time to ride a train!) So if I had a Tesla can just make it but would have to drive half the night and likely sleep in the thing as well just to get recharged. Not practical at all to do!

Yes, looked in opposite direction too. Can go from Cass to Mt. Jackson, VA Supercharger but that's 120 miles one way so is not feasible either.

This is a remote area of West Virginia - there is NO cell phone service in the Cass area due to the observatory in Green Bank. Probably going to be years before a Supercharger makes it to the Elkins area.

Obviously a TDI or gasser makes much more sense for road trips to Elkins/Cass area. I also sometimes head to Romney, WV but there at least a Supercharger is only 30 miles away in LaVale, MD (west of Cumberland) which also is where most hotels are. So Romney is at least practical and not pushing the range compared to Elkins/Cass.

Still a Catch-22 these days - won't buy a Tesla because there are not enough Superchargers and there are not enough Superchargers being built yet since there are not enough Teslas on the road. So question is how long before there are Superchargers spaced about every 50 miles or so which will make driving a Tesla much more practical?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I never took a coast to coast trip in my 25-gallon tanked B4V, but it was neat to know that I could drive from NYC to LA only stopping once for fuel.
Well, maybe. You'd have to get about 55 MPG to make it, assuming you could find a station at just the right amount of fuel remaining and fill with 26 gallons.

I know BRUSSELS BELGIUM wanted to do this, but he was thinking Atlanta/LA which is fewer miles. Either way, two fuel stops are more realistic.
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
Well, maybe. You'd have to get about 55 MPG to make it, assuming you could find a station at just the right amount of fuel remaining and fill with 26 gallons.
I know BRUSSELS BELGIUM wanted to do this, but he was thinking Atlanta/LA which is fewer miles. Either way, two fuel stops are more realistic.
I could have done it, no problem. I had multiple 1,400+ mile tanks.
 

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
Also, why would you want to swap the whole battery pack when recharging it only takes 15 minutes? (Tesla can do that today)
-J
How can Tesla charge a up-to-100kWh pack in 15 minutes if Superchargers only have 145kW? If you could charge at 100% rate (way optimistic) until the end and the batter was 100% empty (pessimistic), that would still mean 42 minutes.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
In 15 min, with the 100kw pack you can go from 20% to 75%. (charging at 120kw)

Yes, that last 25% takes longer since the charge slows down.

-J
 

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
In 15 min, with the 100kw pack you can go from 20% to 75%. (charging at 120kw)
Charging at 120 kW for 15 mins -> 30 kWh
30 kWh gets you from 20 to 75% of a 100 kWh battery? Really? Seems like you would need about twice the power (or twice the time) to pull that off.
 
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Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
I'll let Lawson comment... my recollection of times might be a bit off.
Their site says it’s roughly 20 minutes for 50% charge, 40 minutes for 80% charge, and 75 minutes for 100%.

I also wasn’t aware Model 3 owners get no supercharger credits. It’s pay as you go from day one off the lot. There is a Tier 1 and 2 pricing structure depending on the speed of the charge.

Also, if your charging station is 50% occupied, you are billed a 40 cent per minute idle fee beginning the moment your car is done charging, so if you’re at, say, dinner and your car finishes charging, you better get a to-go box. :p
 

Tdijarhead

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Lawrenceville PA
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Their site says it’s roughly 20 minutes for 50% charge, 40 minutes for 80% charge, and 75 minutes for 100%.

I also wasn’t aware Model 3 owners get no supercharger credits. It’s pay as you go from day one off the lot. There is a Tier 1 and 2 pricing structure depending on the speed of the charge.

Also, if your charging station is 50% occupied, you are billed a 40 cent per minute idle fee beginning the moment your car is done charging, so if you’re at, say, dinner and your car finishes charging, you better get a to-go box. :p
See that's where my TDI has the electric beat, it only takes 10 minutes to fill 50%, 20 minutes to fill 80% and 37.5 minutes to fill that diesel tank 100%. Wait....how long is the line of trucks behind me? Why are they so impatient?:eek:
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
It makes sense that model 3 owners will have to pay for the supercharger "fuel". It would be an unsustainable business model if every car got free power. Since the majority of charging is done while parked at the owners home during the night, the time to fuel issue is somewhat overblown, imo.
 

Jaestar3000

Active member
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Location
Greensboro, NC
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagon
I haven't commented since 2004, this thread brought me out of retirement.

Statistically the average person drives less than 30 miles a day and if you're charging a 200+ mile EV at home every night, range is nothing to be concerned about. Until you have one you don't realize how life changing it is to have a full tank all the time, every day. A pissing match about driving cross country is silly, just drive your diesel, it's good at that but don't knock a car that 95% of its life never touches a public charger (or goes to a gas station) because yours can't - get the right tool for the job folks....
 

Jaestar3000

Active member
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Location
Greensboro, NC
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagon
About EV and [Plug-in] Hybrid maintenance... What can be more simple than batteries and electric motors? Teslas don't even have transmissions, it's remarkably simple, especially compared to TDI engines with turbos and gummed up intakes and burnt up DPFs not to mention DSG transmissions.

These cars have proven to be lower maintenance than standard cars, the brakes last twice as long because of regen braking and if it's a plug-in Hybrid, people are going 20 - 30k miles between oil changes. If it's an EV, it's just tire changes, wiper fluid and watching the brake pads for 100k miles or 10 years when the battery life drops to (gasp!) 85%.

Electric cars aren't going to be better, they already are better, even at these prices and these mile ranges - EXCEPT for the occasional cross country trip.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
About EV and [Plug-in] Hybrid maintenance... What can be more simple than batteries and electric motors? Teslas don't even have transmissions, it's remarkably simple, especially compared to TDI engines with turbos and gummed up intakes and burnt up DPFs not to mention DSG transmissions.

...

Then what was leaking out of the back end of the Model S we had in hear a couple months ago? Sure looked like a big aluminum casting to me, and there was some sort of fluid leaking out of it leaving two trails out the back of the car. Differential? Not being argumentative, just generally curious. The owner was oblivious. I assume the car will suddenly grind to a halt on the highway once whatever lubricant gets low enough in whatever it is lubricating to cause an issue.
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
...get the right tool for the job folks....
I think that’s what people here have been saying. Many people on this site are naturally not statistical averages; they migrated to diesel because they are long-range drivers.

An EV just wouldn’t work for me with its baby range. I commute from Southern Delaware to Washington DC. Some days I catch a commuter bus halfway (and sleep!), but others I have to do the whole 90 miles each way if I have work beyond the bus schedule, and traffic is a wildcard . I take 20+ leisure trips a year over 200 miles, to Philly, DC, Balt, NYC and a couple more 1000+ mile family trips. EVs are a nonstarter in my life until they get some usable range to them. I’m certainly not opposed to one if it made sense, but it doesn’t.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Conversely, some (many) people who do not drive much at all are not really concerned with what to them is minimal costs for fuel and PM. Heck, if I lived 5 miles from work I could drive a big block 1-ton truck to work every day and it would not cost me any more to drive fuel-wise than my 50 MPG Golf does now, and because the miles would rack up so slowly PM costs would be hardly anything. $50 every couple years to change the oil... big deal.

I was actually surprised there was not more of an EV push at the auto show this time around. I guess cheap fuel prices are not really pushing for them. Good time to buy a used one though!
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
I was actually surprised there was not more of an EV push at the auto show this time around. I guess cheap fuel prices are not really pushing for them. Good time to buy a used one though!
Only at the auto shows around the rest of the world. Here, meh!
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
A Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf for daily driving, Golf Sportwagen for trips would be an ideal combination for me. If I were still traveling a lot for business I'd have an electric, no question. HOV lane to the airport, front row parking in the garage, and free charging. I'd be a fool not to buy one.

But my non-DPF TDIs do fine on short trips, are fully amortized, and more fun to drive. I got out of my '02 Wagon this AM and we happy not to hear the chimes and reminders my newer cars seem dedicated to providing. Sometimes simpler is better.
 
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