Really HORRIBLE noise at start-up, dirt in the Starter?

Howdy,

My brother just got a 2000 Jetta TDI, Automatic with 175k miles. It's been maintained well and was running great for the first couple days.

On Saturday it started making an absolutely horrible noise each time it starts (doesn't matter if engine is warm or cold). It's so startling that I almost jumped when I turned the key the first time. It's NOT the normal TDI starter noise you get when the engine catches and the starter does a little ERRRRRRR.

This noise sounds like a piece of wood or metal that's been thrust into a fan. It's metallic and rotational. As soon as the engine catches and you release the key from the starting position, the noise stops. The engine sounds 100% normal once it's running.

This is my first time messing with an automatic. I don't think my 5-speed has the little sight hole down on the tranny? Maybe something fell down in there? The car has the top engine cover but no skidplate at all.

Thoughts?

Hi,

this is a common issue with the starters - the one-way bearing inside it runs dry and the solenoid that's supposed to switch the starter degrades over time. The noise you're hearing is the starter not decoupling fast enough and being driven by the crank shaft with a dry bearing - doesn't sound healthy, I know...

You have two options - remove and service yourself (cleaning stator and rotor surfaces from coal deposits, maybe replacing the brushes, re-lube or replace bearing), or replace.

Chances are, it'll start fine for a while yet - but it won't get better on its own!

Regards

If the noise can only be reproduced by engaging the starter motor then that's where I would start looking. Maybe a broken tooth on the starter motor or a dry bearing.

Kinda, but I think nexus nailed it..............

Had same issue on a 2.0 gasser. Starter was issue. Never fixed it lasted till I got rid of car at 254k started having issues just over 100k

Yep, 212k miles here, it's been doing it since 70k miles.

You guys that've put up with this issue...
Did you ever submerge the starter like if you accidentally drove into a flooded street?
Maybe they just squeeked by the quality control guy on a Friday afternoon

Drove out of a river flood area in pa car had 60k ish when happened. Never thought that cased starter issue. It was fresh water I drove through. Had issues with car in heavy rain would go into limp mode it was a 2.0 gasser.

The starter motor case isn't sealed where that copper ground strap from the solenoid enters so maybe that's how the bearing dries-out ??

Probably not unless you went through some deep water and water got inside the starter which would could contaminate the grease in the bearings.

Something that can drastically shorten a starters life is if you have a starting issue and you crank and crank and crank the engine,the starter gets overheated which would contribute to the grease in the bearings melting and dripping out.

It is amazing but some people will crank an engine until the battery is dead and then jump the car and crank some more hoping for a start.

I have never cranked for more than 2 to 3 seconds at a time and my starter does not squeal at 122K miles.

I have heard folks have had good luck with disassembling a squealing starter, cleaning the parts up, greasing the bearings and re-assembling.

honestly I don't think it has anything to do with the starter clutch... I've rebuilt dozens of these starters that had the same noise and I always reuse the starter clutch drive...the noise did not return....the issue is a dry and or worn starter drive bushing....lube it if it's not too worn or replace it....make sure to lube the planet gears while you're in there

I've had mine since around 130kmi, it's at about 146,xxx miles now and occasionally makes the noise as well. I had been pondering replacement or repairs.

jimbote, what is the procedure of rebuilding/cleaning one like? Does it require complete removal or is it more on the side of removing the cover from it and servicing it on the car?

...and there I thought I had answered that in Post #2 above

You need to remove the starter unit from the car and service it on its own - no way otherwise.

Regards

Damn, I was hoping it's doable with it attached somehow. No luck for me.

Is the Mk4 starter integrated into the motor mount? My Mk4 is down but I need to push it around so with the Mk2/3 engine up on blocks.

Nope.


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Votblindub said:

Damn, I was hoping it's doable with it attached somehow. No luck for me.

Click to expand...

It would be very difficult to service while still on the car, but is super easy to remove. Remove the big and little wire, remove 2 bolts...........

Once removed, remove the brushes and solenoid and the 2 long bolts that hold it together. The bearing/bushing that is at the drive end is usually what makes the squealing sound.

Ol'Rattler is right, it's really no bother at all to remove.

Just need to remove the plastic underbody protection to get to the lower bolt better - and the battery case to get to the top.

You'll need 13mm and 18mm sockets (and a 10mm one for the battery connectors/case). Make sure you have an 18mm one - it's the one that's usually missing if you have a combined small/large socket wrench set Guess who had to run out and get one mid-wrench...

Here's a guide - though it's german, the pictures should help. http://www.uploadarea.de/files/lg54m1o2rqnu9gcgxynqbgwn3.pdf

Also, make sure not to overtorque the large starter bolts when reinstalling - they bolt into aluminium and you can strip it.

Regards

Thanks so much for the help, guys! This is definitely good news. I was hoping it wouldnt be a week long event to just remove the part. I'm definitely feeling more confident that itd be more of a weekend undertaking instead of an overly drawn out affair. Much appreciated!

What grease would you suggest? A high temp water proof 'grease' grease. Or a greaseless lube like carbon or stuff used for high dirt environments?

darkscout said:

What grease would you suggest? A high temp water proof 'grease' grease. Or a greaseless lube like carbon or stuff used for high dirt environments?

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Good question. My first GUESS would be a lithium grease or maybe sunroof lube... dunno

It'd need to be non conductive, right?

It's not like grease is much of a conductor to begin with, and in bearings it does not matter - it's already metal to metal, so nothing to connect . . .

- Tim

tadawson said:

It's not like grease is much of a conductor to begin with, and in bearings it does not matter - it's already metal to metal, so nothing to connect . . .

- Tim

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I have graphite(liquid), regular axle grease, marine grease and white lithium grease sitting around. Which would sit in there the longest, so I don't have to do it 4 times a year?

My guess goes to something high temp such as disk brake bearing grease. I don't think Lithium grease holds up to engine heat very well.

If you have water getting into the starter, then you probably have bigger problems so marine grease, unless it is high temp doesn't really gain you much.

I guess the biggest question is how much dust gets into the bearing. You don't want something that attracts dust.

So you could go with a 'dry lubricant' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_lubricant

A high temp version of something designed for bike chains would work.

here a good write up http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=90249&highlight=starter+cleaning

Ol'Rattler said:

My guess goes to something high temp such as disk brake bearing grease. I don't think Lithium grease holds up to engine heat very well.

If you have water getting into the starter, then you probably have bigger problems so marine grease, unless it is high temp doesn't really gain you much.

Click to expand...

I don't think I have water in there. I can definitely get some bearing grease to use. I was just wondering if I can use what I've got already.

Louis_TDI said:

here a good write up http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=90249&highlight=starter+cleaning

Click to expand...

Another great How-To from Wingnut
NLGI 2 or thicker grease looks like the right choice but as with any lube -too much can be as bad as none at all because dirt and dust can bind the mechanical operation of the lubed parts.
On the other hand, NAPA sells Starter Motors with a lifetime replacement warranty so you'll never have to disassemble another starter...just unbolt and replace with new.

But a new starter $ vs some $1 worth of grease.