If I can't have a VW TDI - I'm going full electric

imurrx · Sep 30, 2016

k1xv said:
I have a Corvette, my frivolous play car. And a diesel SUV for my interstate travels. I would not mind having an electric for my daily driving. The Chevy Bolt is the first all electric that I could afford, and that has the range to not give me range anxiety.

The Volt is s nice car and fun to drive, but the rear seats are atrocious. The Bolt may be better back there.

speedrye · Sep 30, 2016

MrSprdSheet said:
The CO2 from that mix, in contrast:
At 3 miles per kwh,
Straight Coal = 2,000lb/MWh, or 2lbs/kwh, or 2lbs/3 miles = .66lb/mile
At 4.6% of NH's mix, .66lb(.046)=.03lb/mile
Add natural gas, at 1lb/kwh = 30%(.33)= .1lb/mile, add together - .13lb/mile

20lbs/gallon, for petrol if we leave out exploration & production, the ~6kwh per gallon refining, and other stuff doing gas cars a favor. At 50 miles per gallon, you're still 20lb/50miles = .40lb/mile CO2

So, if I'm following your math correctly, I'm better off driving my diesels than an electric car in my area since our power is 90% coal-fired, even though it's one of the most efficient coal plants in the country.

saggii said:
Gee guys, don't you guys have a selection of source?
http://www.powertochoose.org/ and select renewable
And the rates are very competetive too.

I never even knew such things existed. We have a single provider for power with no alternatives, renewable or not.

rfortson · Sep 30, 2016

imurrx said:
The Volt is s nice car and fun to drive, but the rear seats are atrocious. The Bolt may be better back there.

Yep, that was one of the reasons I passed on the Volt. Nice car otherwise.

And you might be correct about the Bolt. The boxy/egg shape probably gives more headroom in the back.

rfortson · Sep 30, 2016

speedrye said:
I never even knew such things existed. We have a single provider for power with no alternatives, renewable or not.

It's pretty nice, and pretty painless to switch.

ZippyNH · Sep 30, 2016

The cobalt pipeline: From dangerous tunnels in Congo to consumers’ mobile tech
http://wapo.st/2dwD8J5

No one knows exactly how many children work in Congo’s mining industry. UNICEF in 2012 estimated that 40,000 boys and girls do so in the country’s south. A 2007 study funded by the U.S. Agency for International Development found 4,000 children worked at mining sites in Kolwezi alone.

True for batteries for electric cars and hybirds too....just something to consider.

This increase has mostly been driven by electric vehicles. Every major automaker is rushing to get its battery-powered car to market. Tesla’s $5*billion battery factory in Nevada, known as the Gigafactory, is ramping up production. Daimler aims to open a second battery plant in Germany soon. LG Chem makes batteries for General Motors at a plant in Holland, Mich. Chinese company BYD is working on huge new battery plants in China and Brazil.

Most Tesla models use batteries from Panasonic, which buys cobalt from Southeast Asia and Congo. Replacement batteries for Tesla are manufactured by LG Chem. Tesla told The Post it knows LG Chem’s Tesla batteries do not contain Congolese cobalt, but it did not say how it knows this.

Tesla, more than any other automaker, has staked its reputation on “ethically sourcing” every piece of its celebrated vehicles.

A good read...

halfast3 · Sep 30, 2016

saggii said:
On another topic, there were very nice cpo deals to be had on Tesla a couple weeks ago. They do this kind of "incognito" sales every once in a while so those who are interested should definately look out for those.

Could be true on CPO cars. Looks like the company line is retail for new units:

According to Bloomberg, Elon Musk sent an Aug. 29 email stressing that Tesla stores not discount cars and that the retailers must adhere to a pricing strategy that is “fundamental” to the brand’s integrity.

http://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-orders-tesla-stores-not-to-discount-cars-to-h-1787220998

kjclow · Oct 1, 2016

Insisting that the retailers sell for full msrp is an antitrust violation.

DanB36 · Oct 1, 2016

kjclow said:
Insisting that the retailers sell for full msrp is an antitrust violation.

It's not an antitrust violation if the manufacturer owns the "retailers", as is the case with Tesla.

bizzle · Oct 1, 2016

They etron is the same size as the golf. The floor in the trunk it's higher in the etron than the egolf because of the battery pack.

Took me a few seconds to see what my wife was pointing out today and then realize what the issue would be.

rfortson · Oct 1, 2016

bizzle said:
They etron is the same size as the golf. The floor in the trunk it's higher in the etron than the egolf because of the battery pack.

Took me a few seconds to see what my wife was pointing out today and then realize what the issue would be.

No the battery is under the rear seat. The trunk is the normal sportback trunk. I've compared it to a co-worker's 2.0 gasser from a couple of years ago. Exact same layout. All I can figure is the extra cargo space in the Golf comes from the more squared off end.

Sent from my HTC Desire Eye using Tapatalk

bizzle · Oct 1, 2016

The eGolf floor is deeper by about 3-4 inches. It's noticeable just standing there looking at it, I didn't actually measure the difference.

EDIT: This article says the fuel tank is under the cargo hold.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a6122/2015-audi-a3-e-tron-prototype/

Depending on whether you're talking about an Audi from a few years ago, or a VW from a few years ago, and what constitutes a few years, his Golf could be a MK6. I believe the MK7 Golf started 2014 but I'm not sure what the differences in body styles have been during these past few years.

chadbag · Oct 2, 2016

bizzle said:
The eGolf floor is deeper by about 3-4 inches. It's noticeable just standing there looking at it, I didn't actually measure the difference.

EDIT: This article says the fuel tank is under the cargo hold.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a6122/2015-audi-a3-e-tron-prototype/

Depending on whether you're talking about an Audi from a few years ago, or a VW from a few years ago, and what constitutes a few years, his Golf could be a MK6. I believe the MK7 Golf started 2014 but I'm not sure what the differences in body styles have been during these past few years.

I think he meant he compared it to his buddy's A3 sportback gasser from a few years ago.

halfast3 · Oct 2, 2016

bizzle said:
The eGolf floor is deeper by about 3-4 inches. It's noticeable just standing there looking at it, I didn't actually measure the difference.
EDIT: This article says the fuel tank is under the cargo hold.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a6122/2015-audi-a3-e-tron-prototype/
Depending on whether you're talking about an Audi from a few years ago, or a VW from a few years ago, and what constitutes a few years, his Golf could be a MK6. I believe the MK7 Golf started 2014 but I'm not sure what the differences in body styles have been during these past few years.

Looked at a friend's Mk VII GTI a while back. The floor of the trunk has 3-4" of dead space below.

rfortson · Oct 3, 2016

bizzle said:
The eGolf floor is deeper by about 3-4 inches. It's noticeable just standing there looking at it, I didn't actually measure the difference.

EDIT: This article says the fuel tank is under the cargo hold.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a6122/2015-audi-a3-e-tron-prototype/

Depending on whether you're talking about an Audi from a few years ago, or a VW from a few years ago, and what constitutes a few years, his Golf could be a MK6. I believe the MK7 Golf started 2014 but I'm not sure what the differences in body styles have been during these past few years.

Yeah, the gas tank is under the rear deck, where the spare tire previously was. The rear deck of the A3 may be higher than the Golf (I don't know but I'll take your word for it), but it has nothing to do with it being a hybrid. The A3 hybrid and the A3 gasser are exactly the same in terms of rear layout.

bizzle · Oct 3, 2016

On my eGolf there is a false floor that is adjustable. If you have it in the highest position, it creates a level floor between the cargo area and the seats when they're folded down. You can also adjust it down a few inches and then there is barely enough space to fit the charger (no spare tire, either).

Does the eTron have that same type of floor? I didn't even think to check it when my wife noted the height difference. I merely noted it because I remember you had mentioned it in this thread.

rfortson · Oct 3, 2016

bizzle said:
On my eGolf there is a false floor that is adjustable. If you have it in the highest position, it creates a level floor between the cargo area and the seats when they're folded down. You can also adjust it down a few inches and then there is barely enough space to fit the charger (no spare tire, either).

Does the eTron have that same type of floor? I didn't even think to check it when my wife noted the height difference. I merely noted it because I remember you had mentioned it in this thread.

No, it doesn't have that adjustable floor feature. That's pretty cool that the eGolf does, but then that's what I've noticed. VWs have lots of the cool functions that Audi doesn't have, or you have to up model to get. Adaptive cruise control is one big one. The Golf Sportwagens have it, but my e-tron doesn't.

bizzle · Oct 3, 2016

The eGolf was much sportier than the eTron's EV mode. But of course, just like the first eGolf we test drove (and lost the salesperson her sale), the sales people don't know about EVs and didn't bother charging it up (the eGolf had like 20 miles on it and when we drove it down the block it dropped to 13 when we turned the A/C on and my wife turned the car around and didn't think about it for another year) so it only had 6 miles of range.

I think the eTron's motor is about 2/3 as powerful as the eGolf's. The way your eTron drives in EV mode is similar to my eGolf in Eco mode. Next year the eGolf is supposed to get an upgraded motor and range (around 48%). I may end up staying with an eGolf and getting an SEL in 2018. It should have an MSRP around $10K less than the eTron but with more features.

For longer range traveling I'm starting to look at the hTron, but I don't know that I'll need more range than 150ish miles (300 miles with half hour layover).

bhtooefr · Oct 3, 2016

A3 sportback e-tron's electric motor is 102 hp and 243 lb-ft, and goes through the 6-speed DSG.

e-Golf currently has 115 hp and 199 lb-ft.

bizzle · Oct 3, 2016

The combined electric motor and gas engine torque figure is 258. The engine itself delivers 180. That 243 torque they promote seems suspect. At least it felt like it was in between the Eco mode and Eco+ mode, which would be 94/162 and 74/129, respectively.

MrSprdSheet · Oct 4, 2016

speedrye said:
So, if I'm following your math correctly, I'm better off driving my diesels than an electric car in my area since our power is 90% coal-fired, even though it's one of the most efficient coal plants in the country.

Yes, an EV driven on 90% coal power spits more CO2 than a TDI, at the tail-pipe. That's assuming 3 miles per kwh and 40 miles per gallon. Bizzle brags he's getting 5 miles per kwh from his eGolf.

There's an easy, and a not so easy way to compare.
Easy:
The EV, "at the flu stack", versus the gas/diesel car's use of one gallon, or "at the tail-pipe". Here, 1 gal = 20-21lbs CO2

No so easy adds CO2 back from:
~8% loss of electric, from power plant to your house
~10% loss of electric, from house to an EV
~6kwh per gallon, to refine fuel
~CO2 release from other energy spent retrieving coal, or oil

There's a Congressional Research Study, I've linked to before, which ups the per gallon CO2 from that 20-21, to 32-36lbs, after conversions. I don't think gas/diesel powered cars do better on an all-in basis, but that's a debate that turns everyone blue in the face (how much coal in the mix, to refine the gas, etc.).

Better, more efficient, coal plants run 1600-1700lbs CO2/MWh. That's versus an average closer to 2,000lbs. As an analyst, I take 10-k disclosures for CO2 and electric output, and have ended up mathing out results like the 2,000 many times. The whole "flu-stack" window is somewhere between 1,600-2,400lbs, when you consider 50 y/o coal plants, etc.

I'm curious what utility you say is running 90% coal? Duke isn't close to that, and most these days are turning to natural gas. To boot, the Carolinas have lots of nuclear, and some of the lowest overnight electric rates one can find.

bizzle · Oct 4, 2016

MrSprdSheet said:
Bizzle brags he's getting 5 miles per kwh from his eGolf.

I don't appreciate your misrepresentation of what I wrote. Nothing I wrote was boastful so use the correct verb or utilize a dictionary and thesaurus if you can't express yourself adequately.

MrSprdSheet · Oct 4, 2016

bizzle said:
I don't appreciate your misrepresentation of what I wrote. Nothing I wrote was boastful so use the correct verb or utilize a dictionary and thesaurus if you can't express yourself adequately.

Maybe those who use pictures shouldn't be so critical of those trying to distill them, with words.

Beyond an emotional day at TDIclub, 5 miles per kwh probably isn't the best way to set expectations. Some people use the highway. Some heat.

MrSprdSheet said:
The eGolf doesn't deliver 5 miles per kwh (40 miles/8kwh).

bizzle said:
This was taken last weekend.

iantryinit · Apr 6, 2017

Wow! Just wasted too much time reading 10 pages where most of it is bashing and BS. Hoping to get details or opinions on buying an electric car to replace my TDI but guess I should look for a new site.
I personally don't care how my electricity was made and here in Canada plugs in garages and driveways are code and required so plugging in isn't an issue.
Solar panels sound like a good bonus to help with the charging and dobut I will ever need more than the it range in a single day. We have other vehicles if needed.

Thanks for the helpful tips to some guys and I'm subscribed to hear updates on your purchases.

no-blue-screen · Apr 6, 2017

Everyone has their own opinion and I don't let it bother me. I'm doing well with my Hyundai. I'm happy with my choice to go to a plug-in hybrid. 15,000 miles into the ownership.

PacCoastFwy923 · Apr 6, 2017

Ah, October fourth, twenty sixteen -- the Passat just parked, the smell of replacement car leather, and the sweet promise of buybacks in the air. Oh so long ago...

DanB36 · Apr 7, 2017

iantryinit said:
Wow! Just wasted too much time reading 10 pages where most of it is bashing and BS.

...and now you've wasted even more time resurrecting a thread that died six months ago. Congratulations.

turbobrick240 · Apr 7, 2017

At least he was honest enough to admit he could give damn about how his energy is produced. Kind of sad, but typical.

iantryinit · Apr 7, 2017

DanB36 said:
...and now you've wasted even more time resurrecting a thread that died six months ago. Congratulations.

Dead for you maybe.......I'm currently looking at buying a new car. So climb back under your rock for another 6 months.

And where I live our power is produced by hydro so it isn't a concern to me.

Tarbe · Apr 7, 2017

I have averaged right at 5 miles per kWh in my 2015 Volt over the first 1,000 miles of ownership (it is a 2015 I purchased as a demo...first registered owner, so get the $7,500).

No brag, just fact (for those old enough to remember Walter Brennan).

I have burned 0.07 gallons of gas so far, just enough to heat things up so I could do a proper oil change.

toasters · Apr 7, 2017

I got an e-Golf after VW bought back my Golf TDI.

I got a screaming deal on a 30 month lease. I average around 4.2 mi/kW in good weather, and I usually stomp on the pedal at most lights. But, I do usually drive in Brake mode which is pretty aggressive regeneration. I'll usually get 85-90 miles per charge.

In the winter, it sucks pretty bad. I'm lucky if I get 2.5 mi/kW when the heater is on. In winter, I'll usually get around 60 miles per charge.

That being said, I drive around 5,000 miles per year and my commute is 4 miles each way. The e-Golf is perfect for me. It gets me to the airport and back on a single charge too.

We have a minivan for when we drive far, so the e-Golf fits well for what i need it for.

The home charger wasn't that bad. I got a ChargePoint Home 25. It was $700, but had a $400 rebate on it. So, $300 wasn't bad. Running the 240V outlet was easy, and my buddy had a bunch of 6 gauge wire left over so it was free for me. The charger works great and charges the e-Golf in just under 3 hours. I pay $0.10/kW for the car if I charge after 11pm. My car charger is on a separate meter from my house, which is on a Tiered plan.

I'm super happy with my e-Golf and will probably get a 2019 with larger range once my lease is up!

If I can't have a VW TDI - I'm going full electric

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