Alarm going off when any button on key fob pushed

Brian O'Dell

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
TDI
2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
Brain trust,

I’m 90% sure I know the initial cause of this. There has been a grinding noise coming from the passenger door lock when I lock or unlock the doors since it got cold. So I think that caused the alarm to think the door lock was not in the correct position. I need to fix either the micro switch or lock servo. But this is my problem;

Any button on my fob causes the alarm to go off. I can lock and unlock all of my doors using the key on the driver’s door handle or lock/unlock switches on the inside of the door. Nothing else causes the alarm to go off other than the fob.

I couldn’t find any other thread specifically related to the fob except one with no answer. I’m at my girlfriends house about to drive from Tacoma to Whistler. So, no tools and no computer to read fault codes. This is causing me to freak out and think we might get stuck.

1. Is there anything that will cause the immobilizer to kill the car?

2. Any other ideas on what might be causing it?

Thanks

Brian
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah, it is probably just a bad fob.

Went through the laundry once too many times.

Obviously a scan tool will allow you to see which button the CCM sees being pressed.

The immo is not part of nor has anything to do with the fob or the remote locks or the alarm system.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Yes, if it were a phone or a PC, I'd say reboot/restart. I would try pulling the fob batteries. Guessing you have no 2nd key, maybe you have the valet key.
I would share your concern about the immobilizer, but it shouldn't kick in. It is independent of the fob buttons, there is a chip in the car that talks to the chip in the fob to make it happy.
You might also carefully disassemble the fob and gently clean.
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
I'd lean on FOB as well. I'm just a bit south of you in Beaverton if you need to use VCDS
 

2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
I had this issue and thought *aha!* I'll just use VCDS and go into 46 and see which door is shown as being open!

The issue is, in order to arm the alarm, the car must be off. Therefore, I cannot use VCDS...
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Key ON, connect to the car, connect to the CCM, turn the key OFF.... still connected. You HAVE to cycle the key ON and OFF to do certain things with the CCM, like key fob stuff.
 

jokila

Vendor
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Location
Houston, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
Key ON, connect to the car, connect to the CCM, turn the key OFF.... still connected. You HAVE to cycle the key ON and OFF to do certain things with the CCM, like key fob stuff.
nice tidbit. You are always a great source of info.
 

Brian O'Dell

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
TDI
2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
I'd lean on FOB as well. I'm just a bit south of you in Beaverton if you need to use VCDS
Nero,

I’m a pilot and have trouble with Acronyms. I need 1-2 syllable words or picture books. “VCDS”? And yes I assume I need to use one of everything. Will that program keys and fobs?

Everyone else,

I’m down to this ‘broken’ fob and a valet key. Local locksmith in Seattle quoted 200 per fob and 125 per new key. So where is everyone’s favorite online key and fob provider?

Thanks!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
In many cases, for convenience, it may be easier to just take the car to a local dealer and have them deal with the keys.

The keys themselves (the actual mechanical part that is cut) is ordered special by VIN. Your car was born with two fob keys and one valet key. The fob is a separate piece.

Then, once those parts are in, the keys will need to be programmed to the car, mated to the immobiliser. After that, each fob will then need to be programmed to the car... this is a separate element not related to the immobiliser. Obviously the valet key has no such secondary programming.

Immo keys are common, most cars nowadays have them, and many aftermarket automotive key professionals do have the necessary equipment to properly program them. You just have to ask. They will almost always be less money than the dealer, IF they can do the job. I would advise getting any and all missing keys or keys you want to start the car ordered and programmed all at once, much easier that way.

However, if you JUST have a fob problem, that can be ordered and replaced and programmed to the car all by itself.

VCDS is VAG (itself short for Volkswagen, AG... "AG" being a German acronym similar to "incorporated") Communication Diagnostic Software, a PC (Personal Computer) based program that allows you to communicate with the modules in the car via the DLC (Data Link Connector) via a USB (Universal Serial Bus) cable.
 

steve6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Location
Beaverton, ON
TDI
2003 jetta tdi
If your key is fine, you can just pull it off and mate it to a new remote and then program that. (as oilhammer has mentioned)

eg: (just did a quick search to show the option, be sure its for your car before ordering).
https://www.amazon.com/Keyless-Remo...954754&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=vw+key+fob&psc=1

you can order the entire device, with the blank key and just throw away that part if you have no interest in getting it cut/programmed https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-...TF8&qid=1546954754&sr=8-6&keywords=vw+key+fob

because you have a fob with key and a valet key you don't really need anything cut, just order the electrical part and program it to the car (there's a procedure to do this with two keys). Your drivers door lock needs to work unless you have vcds.

Or find a mechanic in Seattle area that knows these cars and what they are doing (can order and setup a remote for you) so it does not cost you 5 bills.
 

Brian O'Dell

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
TDI
2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
In many cases, for convenience, it may be easier to just take the car to a local dealer and have them deal with the keys.
The keys themselves (the actual mechanical part that is cut) is ordered special by VIN. Your car was born with two fob keys and one valet key. The fob is a separate piece.
Then, once those parts are in, the keys will need to be programmed to the car, mated to the immobiliser. After that, each fob will then need to be programmed to the car... this is a separate element not related to the immobiliser. Obviously the valet key has no such secondary programming.
Immo keys are common, most cars nowadays have them, and many aftermarket automotive key professionals do have the necessary equipment to properly program them. You just have to ask. They will almost always be less money than the dealer, IF they can do the job. I would advise getting any and all missing keys or keys you want to start the car ordered and programmed all at once, much easier that way.
However, if you JUST have a fob problem, that can be ordered and replaced and programmed to the car all by itself.
VCDS is VAG (itself short for Volkswagen, AG... "AG" being a German acronym similar to "incorporated") Communication Diagnostic Software, a PC (Personal Computer) based program that allows you to communicate with the modules in the car via the DLC (Data Link Connector) via a USB (Universal Serial Bus) cable.
OilH,

So my local locksmith wanted like $140 for the first ‘key’ (ordered, cut, programmed, etc) then like $105 for each additional key after that. I have not yet checked with the dealer on price.

I infer from your post that programming a blank fob can be done without any additional hardware or software? If this is incorrect let me know.

Thanks
 

Brian O'Dell

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
TDI
2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
If your key is fine, you can just pull it off and mate it to a new remote and then program that. (as oilhammer has mentioned)

eg: (just did a quick search to show the option, be sure its for your car before ordering).
https://www.amazon.com/Keyless-Remo...954754&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=vw+key+fob&psc=1

you can order the entire device, with the blank key and just throw away that part if you have no interest in getting it cut/programmed https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-...TF8&qid=1546954754&sr=8-6&keywords=vw+key+fob

because you have a fob with key and a valet key you don't really need anything cut, just order the electrical part and program it to the car (there's a procedure to do this with two keys). Your drivers door lock needs to work unless you have vcds.

Or find a mechanic in Seattle area that knows these cars and what they are doing (can order and setup a remote for you) so it does not cost you 5 bills.
Steve,

The key I have is fine. My issue is that it and the valet key are my only keys. I have only had the car since April and have already lost one fob. I figure I need more keys and I’d like to get it all sorted out one time. Get a couple fobs programmed and get like half a dozen keys. Yes that is probably excessive.

B
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
If you want 6 extras consider 6 valet keys. 2 working fobs seems to work for us, one in my pocket, one in the kitchen drawer.
There is enough info on this interweb thing on replacing keys/fobs. The key is normally cut on a CNC machine and you just need a photo. You then need the secret code (vagtacho) and a VCDS device to program.
I see you can now buy replacement fobs at NAPA, even Batteries Plus, worth checking out if they can complete the program bit..
 

2000alhVW

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Location
Silver Spring, MD
TDI
2000 Golf
I'll be recording and posting a complete how-to video on youtube within a week hopefully.

There's basically 3 parts here:
1) Physical key blade copying/cutting. These keys are cut using an end mill bit process. Like a spinny drill bit that cuts metal as it's moved along. They can be physically copied, with a tracer&follower system, or "perfectly" cut from a database of master profiles. Basically, you look at the key, match it up in the database - 'oh that's key profile #1243' and you insert CNC tool path that corresponds to produce a key#1243 profile.

At this point, your key blade will work...kinda. It will fit the lock, and operate the door lock normally. It will start the car, but the immobilizer will shut it off after 1 second.
Step 2 is how you make the immobilizer happy.

2) RFID "programming". I've noticed in the automotive locksmithing world, the word 'programming' is thrown around quite frequently. It's great for them. They just say something like "yeah, the hard part is, the key has to be programmed..." and suddenly you get the mental picture that they're putting on their NASA glasses and pocket protector, and hammering out some complex C++MS-DOS/HTML code or some other sorcery. Nah. They just use software and a cable, almost the exact same deal as VCDS. Plug in the cable, click 2 buttons, and retrieve the "secret code".
You then used this "secret code" as the login password to access the immobilizer, and then enter "programming mode".
This is basically just telling the computer "hey, I'm gonna put some alien keys in your ignition, and they each have a unique RFID chip. REMEMBER THESE NEW KEYS, OKAY?"
The entire "programming" portion takes ~3 minutes, plus ~30 seconds per key.

There's a caveat - these cars came with small black tags attached that have this "secret code" printed on them. You only need this special software in leiu of that secret code. But, since those tags were literally designed to disappear into oblivious...here we are.
At this point, your newly cut key will work! You can use it to open the doors, and start the car. For valet keys, this is the end of the road. For key fobs, there is a 3rd step.

3) you do a little handshake with the key fob remote. Do you something like put one key in the ignition, turn it to on, close drivers door, insert new key into door lock, turn to lock position, release, press button on remote, remove key from ignition, presto remote works.
 

Brian O'Dell

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Location
Seattle
TDI
2005 GLS Wagon 5spd
2000A and OilH,

I have an iPhone and access to a roommates old Lenovo laptop. I followed the process you guys laid out. But just like my sarcastic comment to OilH about acronyms, you need to dumb it down.

1. I have no way to cut the keys myself and I’m currently trying to read all the previous posts about keys being made by 3rd parties. So first I’d need to know if the key blanks not from the dealer are vetted enough to be reprogrammed? Then figure out where to get those keys cut?

2. It sounds like there is both hardware and software to reprogram the key to the immobilizer. But I haven’t found a thread that breaks that down completely yet. Where to find the software... how to load it ... etc.

3. Are people really using third party fobs from Amazon or batteries plus and clone them to the car? Even with my only good fob acting up? I’m cautious with the non OEM stuff that interacts with any computer on the car.

Sorry I know this stuff might be covered in another thread but I haven’t found it yet. I’m looking at $300 minimum at the dealer or my local locksmith for one fob and one key.

Brian
 

Rrusse11

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Location
PA Deutsch Country
TDI
2002 Golf, 5spd; 05 Jeep CRD
Brian,


I would suggest this video to take the fob apart, replace the battery as a start. That may do it.
Energizer is highly rated as a qualityreplacement.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiK-_w8yBvw

Once the fob is apart, you'll see the board that controls the signals
and contains the RFID, (the chip that the car is "programming"). In my research this chip is only programmable once to perform the necessary handshake so that the car, and then the ECM, (electronic control module or computer) knows that it is the correct key for that particular vehicle.


Fixmyvw.com offers a key cutting and newly chipped board. You
do need one good key to program the new chip with a simple door
lock sequence.

I'm awaiting a new fob and key from an Ebay seller here:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CUT-TO-YOUR-CAR-Keyless-Remote-Flip-Key-Fob-Shell-for-VW-Volkswagen/302811319713?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Note that this listing is for the fob shell only! They also offer fob+key+board, that you should be able to simply and without
an interface mate with your car, the "door lock method".

I luckily have 2 fobs that are fairly worn, but the boards are good.
I'll swap the board into the new shell and then have a new fob and
a backup fob to stash at home.

But if all goes to plan, I will also have a spare cut key. There is a tiny roll pin that attaches the blade to the switchblade mechanism.

On my vehicle I actually have the immobilizer deleted in the ECM.
My standalone key will start the car, albeit with the aid of a pair of
pliers to get the necessary torque to twist it.

But wait, there's more,,,,,,. The standalone key sets off the RFID
handshake that fails, the key light on the dash flashes, but the ECM
doesn't recognise the signal to turn it off. My plan is to cast a handle
on the blade so that it's turnable, and stash the key somewhere in/on
the vehicle. See the options at fixmyvw for their "valet", it too has
an RFID chip for a failsafe backup, but it will need programmed.

My thanks to 2000alhVW for a solid half hour on the phone for
talking this through.

Good luck!


 
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