Restitution payment after purchase of fixed used 2015?

Snufalufagus

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Looks like they are giving you some bad information.
The published information shows the DPF is covered by the Extended Emissions Warranty.
The emissions system warranty shall cover the following parts or
systems:

  • The entire exhaust after treatment system, including the Diesel
    Oxidation Catalyst, the Diesel Particulate Filter, the Selective
    Catalytic Reduction converter, the dosing injector and other Diesel
    Exhaust Fluid system components, the exhaust flap, and all sensors
    and actuators
What the service guy is saying is that it is covered but only from failure as in cracked. Otherwise if it's just full it's a serviceable item and will need to be replaced.
 

93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
What the service guy is saying is that it is covered but only from failure as in cracked. Otherwise if it's just full it's a serviceable item and will need to be replaced.
I don’t think so! What would clog a DPF is particulate, which is carbon. A properly working emission system will send unburned diesel fuel to the DPF to generate an ignition within it, causing the carbon to burn and discharge carbon dioxide (a gas). So a DPF cannot clog with a properly working emissions system. It can be a casualty of a defective emissions system though. And as such, it would be covered under the extended emissions warranty.
 

bizzle

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2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
I believe DPFs fill up over time even when properly functioning.

I seem to recall our VCDS monitoring the ash level in it or something along those lines.
On semis they pull them out, service them, and put them back in. We could service ours, but I don't think they are built in to the system to be serviceable so I'm not sure what the service guy is saying since I doubt VW offers that service--it'd have to be done via 3rd party, I think.
 

93celicaconv

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I believe DPFs fill up over time even when properly functioning.
I seem to recall our VCDS monitoring the ash level in it or something along those lines.
On semis they pull them out, service them, and put them back in. We could service ours, but I don't think they are built in to the system to be serviceable so I'm not sure what the service guy is saying since I doubt VW offers that service--it'd have to be done via 3rd party, I think.
I think reading this explanation does a better job than I would be able to write here:
Ash = Soot = Black Carbon Particles: From a definition standpoint
But, there are a few things that can cause a DPF to clog other than a faulty emissions system, so I guess automatic warranty coverage for any DPF failure would be an error. Some of those things are:
Not using a low ash diesel synthetic engine oil (given engine oil will naturally get into the combustion chamber, incorrect diesel engine oils could cause other particulate matter other than soot/carbon, which may not be burned off with regeneration
Driving the car indefinitely on short trips with no extended highway trips - which prevents proper passive/active regeneration to occur​
There are additional causes for DPF clogging, but most of them would be covered under the extended warranty (problems with fuel injectors is one that comes to mind)
 

DanB36

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Ash = Soot = Black Carbon Particles: From a definition standpoint
No, "from a definition standpoint", these are not the same. They are, in fact, completely different things. Carbon burns. Ash doesn't. That's why soot burns off during regeneration (i.e., why regeneration works), but ash doesn't.
 

93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
No, "from a definition standpoint", these are not the same. They are, in fact, completely different things. Carbon burns. Ash doesn't. That's why soot burns off during regeneration (i.e., why regeneration works), but ash doesn't.
I want to agree with you, and technically, I do. But this is what the definition of ash is regarding DPFs: "Ash, a byproduct of oil consumption from normal engine operation, builds up in the filter as it cannot be converted into a gas and pass through the walls of the filter." This describes the predominant residue within a DPF - soot, or carbon. If one has "ash" as by your definition, which I would agree being the more accurate, then diesel fuel technically does not produce ash, without sulfur. There is a minute amount of sulfur in today's diesel fuel - an amount that could not accumulate to a level that would plug a DPF filter - unless something else in the combustion process was faulty.

Unfortunately, the reference to ash has grown to a broader context, one including and solid particulate emitted from a combustion process, which would include soot or carbon. Hence the problem is answering some questions technically - because of the various perspectives of definitions.
 

bizzle

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There's no reason to go round and round on this.

The DPF burns off excess carbon and a residual of ash remains. Over years this accumulates and eventually the DPF must be replaced (or serviced by a 3rd party).

Call it a malfunctioning system, incomplete burns from sub-par fuel, incomplete burns from regen cycles being interrupted, *low* ash oil (not *no* ash), it really doesn't matter that's how it works on our CR diesels.
 

740GLE

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Moral of the story:

No one who's bought a car fixed while under ownership of VWoA (IE bought back cars) has received any additional payments.
 

93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Moral of the story:

No one who's bought a car fixed while under ownership of VWoA (IE bought back cars) has received any additional payments.
Yes, that is the moral of the story, indeed!
 

93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
With the caveat that the second phase hasn't been released yet.
True. But the focus of this thread is restitution payment after purchase of a previously fixed (Phase 1) used 2015 vehicle where the previous owner had VW buy it back. Such vehicles, at least those thus far submitted for eligibility for a restitution at the time of Phase 2, were declared not eligible, so there will not be a restitution payment for current 2015 owners of such vehicles at the time of the Phase 2 fix.

Which, in a way, will make them non-compliant with the EPA/CARB requirements of VW, if the current owners opt not to complete the Phase 2 fix. I'm wondering how many current owners of such vehicles, knowing they are not eligible for a restitution payment, will opt not to pursue the Phase 2 fix at all. Then I also wonder how VW and EPA/CARB would deal with the non-compliance.

Will be interesting.
 

BKmetz

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With the caveat that the second phase hasn't been released yet.
^^^^^^^^^^
I'm kind of waiting on what happens when phase-2 fix is out.

I've been reading the settlement agreement over and over. I'm sure as hell not a lawyer so reading it is very tedious and I'll never claim to be an expert on explaining and interpreting it. The only definitive clear language is that once any car (gen-1, gen-2, gen-3) is sold back to VW and the buy-back payout awarded to the original owner, the new owner cannot buy the car and register it and start a claim for another buy-back payout. No double payouts on buy-backs.

Language concerning 2015 gen-3 ownership during the phase-2 emission modification fix is not so clear. Parts of the settlement agreement suggest no money, other parts suggest maybe some money. This what I've learned so far, as much as I think I'm interpreting the settlement agreement correctly; There are two pools of money, the buy-back pool and the emission modification fix pool. No original owner can collect a buy-back payout and an emission modification settlement on the same car. It's either one or the other. For owners of 2015 buy-back cars with phase-1 emission modification fix completed (the only way you can buy one through VW), there is money left in the emission modification fix restitution pool. The 2015 buy-back owners cannot collect the full emission modification restitution amount because they didn't own the car when the scandal broke. There is ambiguous language concerning partial payouts and splitting up what's left in the restitution pool.

I make no attempt to understand the difference in what new unsold 2015 owners get and what buy-back 2015 owners get. This much is perfectly clear, any and every owner of any scandal effected VW TDI can have their car fixed for free, EXCEPT the owners of 2012-2014 Gen-2 cars equipped with manual transmissions. Those guys are on their own.

:rolleyes:
 
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bizzle

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It's that ambiguity that is making me rethink sending in my registration/proof of ownership until after phase 2 is on the table.

In regards to any further carrots, I think the warranty is dependent upon the fix.

I'm not worried about it, it'll be a bonus if I receive any more money. This golden goose has laid enough eggs for my satisfaction (and then some)! The $2K extra hasn't factored into any of my purchasing decisions and I hope no one else buys a post-fix 2015 expecting a future payout because we probably won't get any.
 

2010TDI

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I don’t think so! What would clog a DPF is particulate, which is carbon. A properly working emission system will send unburned diesel fuel to the DPF to generate an ignition within it, causing the carbon to burn and discharge carbon dioxide (a gas). So a DPF cannot clog with a properly working emissions system. It can be a casualty of a defective emissions system though. And as such, it would be covered under the extended emissions warranty.
I also disagree that the warranty would only cover a cracked DPF.

My understanding of the extended emissions warranty is that it forces VWOA to "guarantee" the emissions compliance of the system for a pre-determined period of time/miles; that is why the extended warranty was specifically included in the settlement, it was not just just as another bone thrown owners. The extended warranty will function in the same way the emissions warranty works on a new vehicle, ensuring that the vehicle will meet emissions requierments for a predetermined time/mileage without cost to the consumer.

This extended warranty may be more generous than the new vehicle emissions warranty, and my assumption is that this was part of the compromise by VWOA in getting approval from EPA/CARB for the proposed/implemented emissions updates.
 

TripleTDI

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2015 VW Passat TDI 6MT (x2), 2001 VW Golf TDI
This is the similar to the information I saw on the claims website when I registered my two of recently purchased my CPO 2015 Passat TDIs with completed phase 1. However today I received an email that my claim for one of my cars is denied as "Your vehicle is not eligible to participate in the Settlement Program". Still waiting for the answer about a second car.

I less than one month ago purchased a 2015 Jetta TDI CPO from a VW dealer with 29k on it. Obviously phase 1 has been completed.
I registered and began the process of submitting a claim for the phase 2 part coming up through VWGOA. The below text is their determination of a payout I MAY get as a result.
Anything more I cannot tell you. It is now a wait and see game. Fingers crossed.
Thoughts on this are welcome. My first post so please be kind.
-------------------------
Ownership
Do you currently either own or lease this vehicle? Yes
Which of the statements below most accurately describes the ownership or lease of this vehicle? I own this vehicle. There is an outstanding loan attached to the title that I make payments on.
Did you purchase this vehicle at the end of a lease from Volkswagen Credit, Inc. or Audi Financial Services? No
Please enter the date that you purchased or began leasing the vehicle: 11/17/2017
Vehicle Details
Odometer reading 29,257
Odometer reading Exact
Has the odometer ever been broken, altered or replaced? No
Did your vehicle have a Branded Title of Assembled, Dismantled, Flood, Junk, Rebuilt, Reconstructed, or Salvaged on September 18, 2015? No
Was your vehicle acquired by any person or entity from a junkyard or salvage yard after September 18, 2015? No
Can your vehicle be driven under its own 2.0L TDI engine power? Yes
Your Options
Preferred Option:
Emissions Modification & Extended Emissions Warranty
(if approved by EPA & CARB)
Amount VW Will Pay You:
$ 2,173.64
Subsequent Modification:
$ 2,173.64
 

GoFaster

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Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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2006 Jetta TDI
Re DPF coverage under that warranty: There's something in there about covering the DPF only if it "fails" (whatever that means), but if VW was not able to come up with some reliable method of establishing in the field (i.e. at the dealer) if the DPF was "failed" (covered) or "clogged" (supposedly not covered), then the DPF had to be covered no matter what. I don't believe the dealers have any way of establishing the failure mode of a DPF, and if they claim to, you should challenge them on it.
 

Smashed Ixnay

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I just bought a 2015 Passat TDI SEL with stage 1 of the fix already done. I went to check if I'm still eligible for any money and it says I am for $2,697.24. This is pretty awesome because I didn't think I'd be able to get any money from this car. This would make my upgrade from my 2010 Jetta TDI go from $3.7k, to about $1k. I know I won't see that money anytime soon, but still, can't beat that. I'd basically be getting a much newer car, with lower miles, better mileage for almost an even swap.

I sure am glad I seen this thread!
 

740GLE

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yeah you did well! enjoy the SEL, it was well worth the $7K it cost us over exchanging our 2012 SE
 

Fixmy59bug

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2015 Passat TDI SE
So I found a 2014 Passat that appears it hasn’t had the emissions fix yet.

If I buy it tomorrow, would I be eligible to file for the full fix restitution?

On the other side of the coin...

Which would be the smarter purchase, the unfixed 2014 or a fixed 2015? i believe the 2014 has 60k miles and the 2015 has 40k.

I believe the 2014 could net me a little bit of money (even if it is only the final 1/3rd after phase 2 is done) while I believe the 2015 would have a much longer warranty.
 
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93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Is the 2014 Passat equipped with a manual transmission, or the DSG? It makes a difference.
 

Fixmy59bug

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They are both SEL Premiums which are DSG.

I am guessing your question has to do with the DSG reflash problem that is part of the "fix"?

If so, let's leave that out of the equation as I wouldn't get the car fixed until they fix the fix.
 
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93celicaconv

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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
Fixmy59bug, I responding to your post #141 - in that post, you did not indicate what trim level either of the Passats were were considering were.

The 2014 2.0L TDI w/DSG Emissions fix information is contained within this link: https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen2_Automatic_Final.pdf . I don't see anything in this link indicating multiple phases associated with the fix. So if this vehicle was previously owned and registered before 9/2015, and if it doesn't have the stickers on the bottom side of the hood indicating the fix was already completed (see the attached link), then you "may" be eligible for 100% of the restitution. You would need to dig into this a little bit more to get certainty.

And yes, the 2015 has a longer warranty period, and it is reset again when you have Phase 2 completed. If the 2015 already has Phase 1 completed, it is highly unlikely that there is any remaining restitution money left on the table for you (as a potential new owner).
 

93celicaconv

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Wisconsin
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Turned in my 2010 Jetta TDI Cup Edition to VW, DSG, Nav, Sunroof / Replaced with a 2015 Passat TDI SEL Premium
An update on my claim:

After I faxed my info in I forgot to go to the portal and check the box that I was sending in my info by FAX. The process was stalled until I did so. I did that tonight and now I received the email saying my info is being reviewed. So I'm back on track.

Not that there is any hurry on this anyway.

:)
It's been 5+ weeks since you had this response on your used 2015 purchase eligibility for Phase 2 restitution. You should have received an eligibility position by now. What did you find out?

If you found our your vehicle is not eligible, have you contact legal counsel yet? Any progress?
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
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It's been 5+ weeks since you had this response on your used 2015 purchase eligibility for Phase 2 restitution. You should have received an eligibility position by now. What did you find out?

If you found our your vehicle is not eligible, have you contact legal counsel yet? Any progress?
I just logged onto the portal and it says VW is waiting on my FAX. My email from VW says VW is reviewing my information. Go figure...

:rolleyes:
 

BKmetz

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Location
Illinois
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2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
An update.

Back in Nov 2017 I faxed in my information on my 2015 concerning a partial payment when I get the phase 2 fix. I received an email from VW saying they received my fax. When I logged onto the claims portal it said my status was pending upon receipt of my fax. As the phase 2 fix was not yet out I didn't give this much thought.

Now that the phase 2 fix is out, I logged onto the portal and used the live chat to have my claim process reset so I could resubmit my information by uploading it. For the last two weeks my status was my claim was under review. Today I received an email saying my claim is denied as my car is ineligible to participate in the claims program. As my car was a buy back car, and not an early lease termination, I knew this is when I started my claim. I'm not going to appeal the decision.

I still get the phase 2 fix for free and I still get the extended warranty. Which is what I wanted. I'm moving on.

:)
 

Fixmy59bug

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Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
I just received my rejection letter today as well.

I wasnt expecting it, but I was hoping.

And my hope got a little higher when I logged in on Friday and saw the portal wanted me to upload a copy of the repair order where the phase 2 was completed.

But alas, it was not meant to be.

I still got a pretty good 2015 with a brand new exhaust system and a kick ass warranty.
 
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