Alh turbo

I believe my turbo is going I'm losing lots of oil and it smokes quite a bit.

I'm wondering if I should replace with another vnt-15 or go to a vnt-17 ? Looking online people say you need bigger injectors or the vnt-17 will lag not sure if this is true or not ? Right now I have a stage 1 Malone tune, stock injectors and stock clutch that is newer lots of life left so I don't want much more power or it will slip.

Another issue is I'm also having a hard time finding a vnt-15 made by Garrett I can find a bunch of vnt-17 but no 15 also I live in Canada.

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I would not put a '17 on the car unless you're going to get fairly aggressive with a tune in the future; it's unnecessary with a mostly-stock vehicle, and DEFINITELY unnecessary with stock nozzles.

More is not always better -- in this case you'll have very material lag and drivability will be impacted. I'd find a '15 replacement; if it's loose enough to be bypassing a lot of oil it needs to be changed because the reason they do that is the center bearing is worn. Somewhere not all that far down the road from where you are now you'll have housing contact at which point it will destroy itself and there's a decent risk of that either causing a runaway, a hydrolock (on the oil that gets spewed into the intake when it happens) or both.

I don't know, the vnt17 is like a hundred dollars us more... Yes you'd need a lot more mods if you really want to use it but I'm sure mark Malone can do something for the lag as you are (I'm hoping but I'm not certain). I have stage 3 with pp520 nozzles, 11mm pump and a Southbend stage 2 daily clutch on the vnt 15 and it's running great, but I wish I had the 17!

oh ok ill just stick with the 15 do you know if i need to remove the egr and intake to replace turbo or can i do it all from the bottom of the car ? if i do need to remove the intake manifold do i need new gaskets ?

VNT17s really aren't that laggy if you have the fueling to work with them, but you can make sufficient power on a VNT15 with aggressive fueling. I would not run a vnt17 on stock fueling, I would definitely buy one over a 15 if you had DLC1019s or an 11mm pump etc.

You should replace the gaskets while you're in there, they're a couple bucks and worth the peace of mind.

Boooooo! Get the VNT17, it's a more durable unit from what everyone here states. If I was in your situation, I wouldn't think about it, VNT17 all the way!

Anyways, refer to Owain, he knows more on the matter than me

I'd try to replace it with what was in there. Keep looking, some dealerships will discount a bit. Nothing wrong with a quality 17, but you need adapter I think and it can affect performance.

Or, you can contact Frans at Dutch Auto Parts (a preferred vendor here) and check out his prices. His "rebuilt" turbos have new CHRA's (the rotating assembly) installed. Which technically means a new turbo bolted to a used exhaust manifold. His "used" vnt-15 turbos are disassembled, cleaned, and balanced before shipping and cost $275.00. His "rebuilt" vnt-15 turbos are $450.00, and his vnt-17/15's are $575.00. A vnt-17/15 has vnt-17 internals with a machined vnt-15 compressor housing eliminating the need for any adapters to install the turbo. The nice thing about using a vnt-17 CHRA in a vnt-15 compressor housing is, the throttle response is as good if not better than a vnt-15 but you have the option of running up to 24 pounds of boost just like a "regular" vnt-17 with the appropriate tune. Your engine is already tuned by Malone so an updated tune for an upgraded turbo should be very inexpensive. It is actually possible if you get a vnt-17/15 you won't need your tune changed at all, whereas if you got a "regular" vnt-17 you would need a new tune to prevent poor throttle response. I have a 56 mm (vs 49 mm) compressor wheel machined into a vnt-15 compressor housing and I could not be happier; I start building boost around 1500 RPM without lag even with the A/C running. Just my $0.02 of course...

Frans: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=434593
Check out post #3

does anyone know where to get a vnt-15 only place i can find one is idparts. they are $799 american im Canadian so it would be like $1076 plus shipping.

Owain@malonetuning said:

VNT17s really aren't that laggy if you have the fueling to work with them, but you can make sufficient power on a VNT15 with aggressive fueling. I would not run a vnt17 on stock fueling, I would definitely buy one over a 15 if you had DLC1019s or an 11mm pump etc.

You should replace the gaskets while you're in there, they're a couple bucks and worth the peace of mind.

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i messaged aaRodriguez they said i should have no lag with a vnt-17 he said they dont even sell vnt-15 because they are the same price. he also said his girlfriend is actually runing the same set up as me just stage 1 with a vnt-17 and no lag. i dont want to upgrade fueling because my clutch will slip im really unsure on what turbo to get so many mixed opinions and i cant find a vnt-15 anywhere.

Have you tried Roseland VW? Some of those dealers must have a Garret or 2 and they can't keep them forever.
I might try a unit from Frans, heard a lot of good comments and it looks like you might save some cash.

Thibault, take a look at the vnt 17 in the vnt15 housing from Dutch auto posted above, seems like a perfect option for you and not too pricey! $575usd!

Chunkymonkeyparts in Woodstock has new garret vnt17 for $1081.31. Nice people and you can arrange pick up from their store to save shipping. Just another option.

derek5120 said:

Chunkymonkeyparts in Woodstock has new garret vnt17 for $1081.31. Nice people and you can arrange pick up from their store to save shipping. Just another option.

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Yeah I was just talking to them I may get one from there or aarodriguez I confirmed with Malone and aarodriguez they said the lag will only be about 150rpm different between vnt-15 and 17. So I guess I'll just spend some more money for the vnt-17.

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They have a VNT17 mini, anyone know what that is? It's like half the price!

Keep in mind the regular VNT17 requires the adapter, unless you get the DAP one with the vnt15 housing

thibault said:

does anyone know where to get a vnt-15 only place i can find one is idparts. they are $799 american im Canadian so it would be like $1076 plus shipping.

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IDparts sells the Mahle VNT-15 for $699, that would save you about $150 bucks CDN. I have one on my ALH Golf.

That is the cheapest new VNT-15 turbo you're going to find.

Otherwise, you can buy used if you want to save money...but you have to assume the risk that goes with it. I installed a used VNT-15 on my Beetle last year...and it worked great. I bumped into the guy I sold the car to a few weeks ago, and it's still working great...he has since put another 50,000 kms on it with no issues.

Turbos that are not abused can easily last as long as the engine does. I have over 200k on the OE VNT15 on my '03 and just did the belt on it; there was very little oil in the pancake pipe, just a film and the vanes are working ok as well. I've got nozzles in the car and have had since it was nearly new as well.... no problems.

If it eventually fails I'll probably a 15/17 in it, simply because there's little difference in cost. But I wouldn't be scared of a used 15 provided it's out of the car and I can inspect it before I pay for it.

There is really no reason to spend the extra money on a 17 if you don't need/want the extra boost capabilities. Also, i don't think they are necessarily more durable. I have seen quite a few blown 17s out there.

BTW the trick to turbos is to NEVER SHUT THEM OFF HOT.

Never.

WHEN you pull over and park in a rest area on the freeway (having just been cranking along) or after any sort of driving where the engine has been making material amounts of power over the last few minutes let the car SIT idling for a couple of minutes before you shut it down.

The problem is that while the center section is cooled by the oil and airflow through the cold side as soon as you turn it off both cease. The HOT SIDE, if it's above the oil coking temperature, will heat the center section through conduction until the oil cooks. Once that starts it is a progressive, destructive process as it narrows the oil passages in the turbo; this in turn reduces flow and thus makes the NEXT shutdown more likely to do even more damage. Eventually you wind up with oil starvation and the turbo grenades.

Two two ways turbos die, other than abuse (overboosting and compressor stalls) are FOD and this process.

I agree^^^ after a long run on highway or long hill, don't just pull into a parking spot and turn of the engine. The fully synthetic oils we run in our TDI's are very highly resistant to coking, but not coking proof. If you live or have to drive in high altitudes, then the vnt-17 or 17/15 is the better choice. For example 18 psi at sea level for a "maxed-out" vnt-15 is no problem, but 18 psi altitude corrected at 5000' is 15.3 psi actual pressure. But 18 psi w/o altitude correction is 20.7 psi and that is way too high to keep a vnt-15 happy; a vnt-17 or 17/15 on the other hand will run 24 psi all day long w/o issues.

Using the correct spec synthetic oil has made this mostly a thing of the past.
These turbos are so small that they temperature stabilize very quickly, too.
Most people will never need to do any extra steps other than oil + filter changes.

I prefer the VNT-15 on ALHs unless they're pretty extensively modified. I have a Mahle VNT-15 on my wagon which has a fair number of mods, it's running 19.5 PSI, and is going strong after 60K miles.

IBW, it doesn't hurt that you live almost at sea level and have ready access to tuning changes if needed.

flee said:

Using the correct spec synthetic oil has made this mostly a thing of the past.
These turbos are so small that they temperature stabilize very quickly, too.
Most people will never need to do any extra steps other than oil + filter changes.

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That's true for ordinary "tooling around town" but it definitely is NOT if you come off a run on the highway or worse, pulling a hill under load.

Synthetic oil *absolute maximum* safe temperature is around 400F. Compare around ~275F for dino, and yes, the synthetics are FAR better. However, the exhaust side of a turbo normally materially exceeds that temperature and if you shut down after a run on the highway before it can cool off some you're asking for it.

Nevada_TDI said:

IBW, it doesn't hurt that you live almost at sea level and have ready access to tuning changes if needed.

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Sea level may help, but I re-tune my cars very infrequently. My wagon had RC3 for several years, RC6 for six years, went to 3+ when I replaced the engine almost three years ago. Haven't touched it since. And I can't think of any other car I own that Jeff has tuned more than once.

IBW, I stand corrected, my apologies. I have only had my Jetta tuned twice (Stage 3, Stage 4) but there were a few different versions of my Stage 4 written due to the high altitude compensation control.

Shameless plug: 10% off turbos (and lots of other stuff) through Monday. That will just about cover border fees for Canadian customers.

I found a place in Canada called chunky monkey it's cheaper than buying from us. I may have plans to upgrade to stage 4 in the future just not right now.

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id save only $109 if i got a vnt-15. i can get a vnt-17 with adapter and braided oil line plus gasket kit for $1285

thibault, you could check prices at Dutch Auto Parts, Frans has really good prices. About 1/2 the cost you have quoted above.