Metal Bits Found in Belly Pan

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
About 1,000 miles / 1 month ago my clutch, two separate times, made a raspy, light grinding noise when the pedal was depressed. It went away each time after a few starts and stops (before I could ever get it to be looked at). Almost sounded like a rock or something was rubbing against the spinning parts. Letting up on the clutch made the sound stop. Tonight I changed oil and found some metal bits in the belly pan, see pic. Ever since car has run fine, no change at all in clutch, driving, noise, etc.

Anyone have any idea what happened, and how serious it is? I am planning on keeping this car, rather than going for the buy back, but if a costly failure is in my future, I may change my mind...

 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Maybe one of the fingers on the pressure plate broke off. At least that debris wasn't in the oil pan!
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
It's hard so see how a clutch problem could be connected to anything in the crankcase (—always assuming that's what you meant by "belly pan.") On the other hand, if by that you meant that plastic cover that goes under the drivetrain (the one held on by 9 x 25 and 3 x 40 Torx), it's equally difficult for me to see how any metal could get out of the transmission housing.....
 

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
Yes these pieces were on the plastic shield, not in the oil pan. Maybe they are unrelated to the clutch noise I heard.
 

chimaera

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Location
Ireland
TDI
2012 Skoda Superb Combi CR170
If the car has the concentric slave cylinder, it could be a split in the pressure plate. It's a known problem on the 6-speed manuals over here that use that setup to the extent that VAG will (supposedly) cough up for the repair. In the worst cases, the split pressure plate machines its way through the gearbox casing and you lose the oil out of the 'box. See this thread for more detail: https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/363426-clutch-eats-gearbox-and-bank-balance/
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Yeah, looks like pressure plate fragments to me. Which would fit the noises he was hearing.
 

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
Assuming it is part of the pressure plate:
- Any theories on how it got outside the clutch housing?
- Should I have a VW dealer inspect the car?
- Am I in for an eminent, costly failure?
 

chimaera

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Location
Ireland
TDI
2012 Skoda Superb Combi CR170
There are gaps around the bellhousing where small fragments could conceivably fall out.

If it is the pressure plate, it is very likely that it will eventually eat its way through the gearbox casing at which point you're looking at replacing the gearbox.

Some sort of inspection would be warranted IMO - I've wondered if you'd get a fibre optic camera in there if you took off the starter motor. It's worth a shot since it's going to be a lot easier/cheaper than dropping the gearbox.
 

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
VW mechanic took starter off to inspect and confirmed pressure plate has broken fingers ($1300 parts and labor) and possibly flywheel may be damaged (additional $1100 parts and labor) although that is not for sure.

As much as I like this car, I am looking at another $1,000 or so for a timing belt a year/20,000 miles from now, plus the fact I can get $3,000 more than I paid for the car in 2015 by selling back to VW. So in effect, a year from now, I can have this car, with 130,000 miles on it, all ship shape, or pocket $16,000 buyback + $1,300 clutch + maybe another $1,000 clutch + $1,000 timing belt = $18 - $19k, and use that to find another car.

I am having a hard time justifying putting any more dollars in to this car. Any thoughts?
 

unixb0y

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Location
Manitoba, Canada
TDI
2013 Passat Comfortline 6MT Nav
VW mechanic took starter off to inspect and confirmed pressure plate has broken fingers ($1300 parts and labor) and possibly flywheel may be damaged (additional $1100 parts and labor) although that is not for sure.
As much as I like this car, I am looking at another $1,000 or so for a timing belt a year/20,000 miles from now, plus the fact I can get $3,000 more than I paid for the car in 2015 by selling back to VW. So in effect, a year from now, I can have this car, with 130,000 miles on it, all ship shape, or pocket $16,000 buyback + $1,300 clutch + maybe another $1,000 clutch + $1,000 timing belt = $18 - $19k, and use that to find another car.
I am having a hard time justifying putting any more dollars in to this car. Any thoughts?
Here is a kit
http://www.idparts.com/complete-clutch-replacement-kit-20l-tdi-speed-p-5620.html
 

Lex Tdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Location
Lexington ky
TDI
2013 Passat
I would think that given your situation you might ought to sell it back... i probably would if i had a 12 or earlier. But i will repeat, the person who refuses to learn how to fix there own car or refuses to find someone other than a guru to service their car is always going to get screwed. The dealer makes their money in the service department. There are a few good ones.... there are a LOT of bad ones!

You can also reverse this around, you are going to get 5 grand free for keeping it, you can replace clutch and timing belt and be good for another 100,000 miles (assuming it was the previous owner who didnt know how to shift and not you!) for 2500. So you could in theory keep your car and come out with an extra 2500 bucks in your pocket and a car you can drive for a long time. Thats what i went with. It's at least nice to have a choice...
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
That sounds like a dealership price quote. Most gurus would replace the whole shebang, including dmf for $1500-1700. I found an oem Luk clutch kit and flywheel for my golf on partsgeek for under $600.
 

chimaera

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Location
Ireland
TDI
2012 Skoda Superb Combi CR170
I would think that given your situation you might ought to sell it back... i probably would if i had a 12 or earlier. But i will repeat, the person who refuses to learn how to fix there own car or refuses to find someone other than a guru to service their car is always going to get screwed. The dealer makes their money in the service department. There are a few good ones.... there are a LOT of bad ones!

You can also reverse this around, you are going to get 5 grand free for keeping it, you can replace clutch and timing belt and be good for another 100,000 miles (assuming it was the previous owner who didnt know how to shift and not you!) for 2500. So you could in theory keep your car and come out with an extra 2500 bucks in your pocket and a car you can drive for a long time. Thats what i went with. It's at least nice to have a choice...
There's an acknowledged manufacturing fault with the Sachs pressure plates used in the 6 speed manuals with concentric slave cylinder. VAG in Europe have been eating the cost of repairs on this for a while over here.
 

Trade Wind

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Location
Minnesota
TDI
RIP 2012 Passat SE 6 spd MT
Well I think I may have dodged a bullet. Thanks Chimaera, your advice and link were spot on.

VW dealer took it apart and said one of the pieces of metal that broke off lodged somewhere in between a moving part and the transmission housing and wore a circle more than half way through the housing. The mechanic said he could not guarantee the transmission would not eventually crack in that spot and leak in to the clutch, at which point another clutch AND a new or rebuilt transmission would be needed. He said if it was his car he would probably risk it, but no guarantees.

At this point, with only $650 into the dealer disassembly ($250 of that is left on my dealer card, so $400 out of pocket) I feel I have to cut my losses and do the buyback. He said he can put it all back together and it will run same as before.

I REALLY like this car, but common sense (or maybe my penny-pinching side) has taken over. Goodbye Passat... sniff...

Part of me says stick the buyback $$ into another TDI, but maybe it is time to move on. Maybe a used Avalon - a good granmpa car for this (very young, I might add) grampa.
 

chimaera

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Location
Ireland
TDI
2012 Skoda Superb Combi CR170
If you want to keep it, it might be worth pointing out to them that VW in Europe have been covering the cost of repairs. In your case it'd be a new bellhousing, clutch and pressure plate. DMF would be done at your cost if you want to replace it.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Hard to tell too much from a photo, but the case doesn't look super compromised to me. I can definitely see the appeal of a buyback in that scenario though.
 
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