BEW EGR delete

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
Hey all,

I'm planning on deleting the EGR on my BEW soon. I am wondering if anyone else has done this and what I should expect to come as far as fuel economy and performance.
 
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fruitcakesa

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Location
Vermont
TDI
04 jetta 5 spd wagon
The 04 has a delete, VNT 17 and tune and it still averages over 40 mpg and likely more when I stay out of the go pedal;)
 
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Wilkins

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Location
British Columbia
TDI
05 Jetta Wagon 5sp, 10 Sportwagen 6MT
I started with a dynamic delete via a tune. Better economy, 5-10% and more power from the tune. When the system started leaking I bypassed it. Not much point to mentioning but no EGR runs better than a leaking EGR. Only downside is slower warmup, mostly apparent well below freezing.
 

Jake_S

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2012 JSW TDI/DSG; 05 Jetta Wagon auto (retired)
Fuel economy didn't change for me, and the only downside is slightly longer for the engine to get to temp. That doesn't bother me, since I live in Charlotte, and the winters are pretty mild.

Jake
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
I started with a dynamic delete via a tune. Better economy, 5-10% and more power from the tune. When the system started leaking I bypassed it. Not much point to mentioning but no EGR runs better than a leaking EGR. Only downside is slower warmup, mostly apparent well below freezing.
How do you tune it out?
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
How do you tune it out?
I'm getting this done Tuesday with a Malone tune. I think you just specify to your tuner (unless doing it yourself) to do an EGR delete. I'm doing both the cooler bypass and removing the EGR motor, both with blockoff kits I got from fixmyvw.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
Zero performance gain, zero economy hit (Maybe a wee bit less in the winter due to the car taking longer to warm up)
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
Ok, so deleting an EGR brings no performance or fuel mileage gain. What other reasons are there to delete it besides keeping buildup out of your intake manifold??
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
What other reasons are there to delete it besides keeping buildup out of your intake manifold??
Exactly. :):)

Also worth noting that unless you get a software tune you will have a permanent check engine light.

And you're tampering with federally-mandated emissions equipment.

And the car will flunk any smog test based on physical examination.

Your car, your call. :):)
 

Hatchet Ratchet

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Location
Freedom, WI
TDI
2004 Jetta PD
does anyone have a go / no go feeling about this kit for an EGR delete for an 04 BEW?
http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Pa...463504923&sr=8-1&keywords=bew+block+off+plate

My stupid flex pipe is whistling like a dentist drill. this is the second pipe that has failed.

i'm investigating just dumping the emissions, removing the intake, cleaning it out with foaming oven cleaner, and not dealing with it anymore.

suggestions? comments?
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
.........................
My stupid flex pipe is whistling like a dentist drill. this is the second pipe that has failed.

i'm investigating just dumping the emissions, removing the intake, cleaning it out with foaming oven cleaner, and not dealing with it anymore.

suggestions? comments?
You may just be missing a bracket. It was common for dealers servicing the the EGR area to leave it off causing that pipe to fail.
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
Exactly. :):)

Also worth noting that unless you get a software tune you will have a permanent check engine light.

And you're tampering with federally-mandated emissions equipment.

And the car will flunk any smog test based on physical examination.

Your car, your call. :):)
We don't smog test where I live (rural Virginia). If I was going to delete it, I would have only removed the lower pipe and blanked the exhaust manifold and the bottom of the cooler, leaving everything else in place. That probably would've fooled most of these hillbilly mechanics on the physical inspection.

Honestly though, the BEW does a fantastic job of not letting build up accumulate in the intake manifold. I looked inside the IM yesterday when I cleaned my EGR valve. There was a layer of thin oily residue on the walls, but other than that, it is wide open. I was planning on deleting it because I was led to believe (by friends of mine) that it would increase fuel economy. Since that's not the case here, I'm probably just going to walk away from it then. Increasing fuel economy is my number one goal.
 

gforce1108

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
does anyone have a go / no go feeling about this kit for an EGR delete for an 04 BEW?
http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Pa...463504923&sr=8-1&keywords=bew+block+off+plate

My stupid flex pipe is whistling like a dentist drill. this is the second pipe that has failed.

i'm investigating just dumping the emissions, removing the intake, cleaning it out with foaming oven cleaner, and not dealing with it anymore.

suggestions? comments?
That's why I deleted mine - it was cheaper than fixing the broken pipes after the dealer screwed up the recall (several missing screws and brackets). I made the plates from 1/4" aluminum and didn't need any hose couplings. One hose from each pair can be relocated to bypass the other. Cost me nothing at all. That kit looks pretty decent (I'd skip the plastic hose coupler)

If you do this - you should go a couple steps further. Mainly - remove the butterfly flappers in the intake runners before one breaks off and gets ingested. Second - there are a bunch of vacuum lines/actuators/solenoids that can be removed to clean up the engine compartment (or leave them in place but capped to maintain a stock look).

The tune deletes the EGR from the ECU so mine shows N/A instead of not ready during a scan of the ECU. Passes NY emissions because all they do is plug in and check readiness monitors. Of course it's still really illegal. I also now have a pretty slow warm up but I deal with it (plug in heater).
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Ok, so deleting an EGR brings no performance or fuel mileage gain. What other reasons are there to delete it besides keeping buildup out of your intake manifold??
Not having to replace the EGR cooler hoses every 20-30K. I was pricing those parts, and dang they're expensive!

does anyone have a go / no go feeling about this kit for an EGR delete for an 04 BEW?
http://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-Pa...463504923&sr=8-1&keywords=bew+block+off+plate

My stupid flex pipe is whistling like a dentist drill. this is the second pipe that has failed.

i'm investigating just dumping the emissions, removing the intake, cleaning it out with foaming oven cleaner, and not dealing with it anymore.

suggestions? comments?
I purchased the motor block off plate and cooler bypass made by buzzken, from fixmyvw. Unfortunately, the bolts that attach my cooler to the turbo (or some bracket in between) are rusted solid, so I'm just going to replace the VNT17 in the next week or two and get it removed while the turbo is out.

Mine was whistling like a dentists' drill, but now it sounds like the fan in my projector when I give it some acceleration (after getting a Stage 1 tune).

If your state doesn't have emissions checks on diesels, I say go for it!
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
So, I've discovered my lower EGR pipe is cracked and suddenly this is looking like I'm going to delete it again. I'm thinking about leaving the EGR cooler and everything else in place and only deleting the lower pipe by blanking off the exhaust manifold port and the port on bottom of the cooler. I've read that this method is obviously a lot less work, but will also not cause a CEL. Anyone know if this is true?
 

gforce1108

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
So, I've discovered my lower EGR pipe is cracked and suddenly this is looking like I'm going to delete it again. I'm thinking about leaving the EGR cooler and everything else in place and only deleting the lower pipe by blanking off the exhaust manifold port and the port on bottom of the cooler. I've read that this method is obviously a lot less work, but will also not cause a CEL. Anyone know if this is true?
If you only block off the lower pipe and leave the upper open - the car will suck unfiltered air. It'll probably keep the ECU happy (needs to see a drop in MAF readings to confirm EGR flow) but not really good for your engine.

Block both ends and get a tune.
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
If you only block off the lower pipe and leave the upper open - the car will suck unfiltered air. It'll probably keep the ECU happy (needs to see a drop in MAF readings to confirm EGR flow) but not really good for your engine.
Block both ends and get a tune.
I will block both ends. The car won't suck unfiltered air because I'll block the bottom port of the EGR cooler where the lower pipe would connect. It won't suck anything at all. I don't have enough money for a tune, so what will happen if I block it and don't get one?
 
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Vince Waldon

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Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
Mostly just a permanent Check Engine Light. The ECU tests the EGR system actively and regularly....looking for specific changes in airflow as the valve is exercised. Block offs/deletes mess with the airflow changes the ECU is expecting to see and so the ECU flags a code.
 

gforce1108

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
I will block both ends. The car won't suck unfiltered air because I'll block the bottom port of the EGR cooler where the lower pipe would connect. It won't suck anything at all. I don't have enough money for a tune, so what will happen if I block it and don't get one?
Sorry - I missed where you said "and the port on bottom of the cooler". My first round of delete was two simple sheet metal gaskets installed - one at the turbo outlet and the other at the intake. Everything looked stock but of course I had a CEL. At that point, NY did not emissions test diesels. Next, I pulled the intake flapper (motorized one) and the actual EGR valve itself. Once I decided to install a bigger turbo, I ripped out everything and got a tune - more for the turbo, but it included a delete. Then NY started testing them but since there is no EGR coded in the ECU, I don't get any faults - just a N/A from that controller.
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
Ok. So if I'm understanding this the right way, I only need a tune after an EGR delete to get rid of the CEL and not for performance? Where I live in Virginia doesn't emissions test. Virginia does emissions tesing based on population density and we're way too rural, so I don't have that to worry about.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
You got 'er.

The risk of a permanent CEL is, of course, that it will mask an important CEL coming on some day. Your car, your rules. :)
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
Ok. So if I'm understanding this the right way, I only need a tune after an EGR delete to get rid of the CEL and not for performance? Where I live in Virginia doesn't emissions test. Virginia does emissions tesing based on population density and we're way too rural, so I don't have that to worry about.
Trust me, you'd really enjoy that Stage 1 tune. But if you're really that strapped for cash, for $99, you can just do an EGR delete tune (nothing performance related):

http://www.malonetuning.com/ecu-tuning/audi-volkswagen/tdi/pd-tdi

I don't know if Malone would discount you going to a Stage 1 later (the way I understand it, I paid $299 for my Stage 1, so when I go to Stage 4, I'd only be paying the $100 difference). Doesn't hurt to ask one of the various Malone dealers. That would probably be your safest bet - my tuner even agreed - you don't want to block off the EGR without it being deleted in software first.
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
I unfortunately really am that strapped for cash. If deleting it without a tune only triggers a CEL but doesn't screw with performance, I'm just going to delete it until I decide weather I want to replace the lower pipe or tune the EGR out. I have to do something because my car is really anemic due to that leak and I have a road trip coming up in about a week. As for the future, I feel inclined to keep the lower pipe deleted and get a tune because I know the chances of the pipe cracking again are high. I also care about my emissions and know now that deleting the EGR could harm my fuel mileage slightly, so I'm tempted to replace the pipe too. Both the pipe and the EGR only tune cost pretty much the same. I'm really on the fence here. Does anyone know of a brand of EGR pipes that don't tend to crack again?
 

gforce1108

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
TDI
04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
I unfortunately really am that strapped for cash. If deleting it without a tune only triggers a CEL but doesn't screw with performance, I'm just going to delete it until I decide weather I want to replace the lower pipe or tune the EGR out. I have to do something because my car is really anemic due to that leak and I have a road trip coming up in about a week. As for the future, I feel inclined to keep the lower pipe deleted and get a tune because I know the chances of the pipe cracking again are high. I also care about my emissions and know now that deleting the EGR could harm my fuel mileage slightly, so I'm tempted to replace the pipe too. Both the pipe and the EGR only tune cost pretty much the same. I'm really on the fence here. Does anyone know of a brand of EGR pipes that don't tend to crack again?
The problem isn't with the brand of pipes, it's typically because the EGR cooler was not installed properly. There was a recall years ago and the dealers cheated and didn't install all the brackets or follow the instructions to get them installed correctly. This causes the flex lines to break. Theoretically, you should be able to realign the cooler (there is a PDF posted here somewhere if you search - keywords BEW EGR recall?), make sure all the brackets are installed (good chance there is at least one missing) and replace the flex lines and be good-to-go.
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
The problem isn't with the brand of pipes, it's typically because the EGR cooler was not installed properly. There was a recall years ago and the dealers cheated and didn't install all the brackets or follow the instructions to get them installed correctly. This causes the flex lines to break. Theoretically, you should be able to realign the cooler (there is a PDF posted here somewhere if you search - keywords BEW EGR recall?), make sure all the brackets are installed (good chance there is at least one missing) and replace the flex lines and be good-to-go.
Stealership mechanics cutting corners. Why am I not surprised? Ok, I'll throw on the block off plates for now to get my boost back to normal and I'll save up to order a new pipe and do my homework on that PDF.
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
Ok, so I confirmed, for sure, the lower pipe had a leak in it and I finally got around to deleting it today. I took it for a test drive and it's still super sluggish (I confirmed my delete job wasn't leaking). The only difference I've noticed is there is no longer an exhaust smell when the A/C fan is on. Why else would my car be sluggish??

btw, I looked at the EGR and the bracket is definitely there, so I'm not sure why the pipe cracked.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2003 Jetta Ute, 2 x 2002 Golf, 2000 Golf
The problem isn't with the brand of pipes, it's typically because the EGR cooler was not installed properly. There was a recall years ago and the dealers cheated and didn't install all the brackets or follow the instructions to get them installed correctly. This causes the flex lines to break. Theoretically, you should be able to realign the cooler (there is a PDF posted here somewhere if you search - keywords BEW EGR recall?), make sure all the brackets are installed (good chance there is at least one missing) and replace the flex lines and be good-to-go.
Stealership mechanics cutting corners. Why am I not surprised? Ok, I'll throw on the block off plates for now to get my boost back to normal and I'll save up to order a new pipe and do my homework on that PDF.
Ha, almost literally cutting corners. My EGR cooler was bolted one with ONE nut before we removed it on Saturday. The turbo was held to the exhaust manifold by 5 nuts.

To others - could bigjake's BEW running the way it is be due to limp mode from the EGR being deleted without a tune? Now I'm curious.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
Ok, so I confirmed, for sure, the lower pipe had a leak in it and I finally got around to deleting it today. I took it for a test drive and it's still super sluggish (I confirmed my delete job wasn't leaking). The only difference I've noticed is there is no longer an exhaust smell when the A/C fan is on. Why else would my car be sluggish??

btw, I looked at the EGR and the bracket is definitely there, so I'm not sure why the pipe cracked.
How sluggish are we talking about? If you're getting no black smoke out the tailpipe, I'd guess you've got a bad MAF. Unplug it and go for another drive and let us know if there's any improvement.
 

bigjake

Veteran Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Charlottesville, VA
TDI
2005 Jetta MKIV, 1.9 BEW with 09A
I've beyond a doubt experienced limp mode before and this isn't limp mode. The car is faster than limp mode but it is neither faster nor slower than before I deleted the cracked EGR pipe.

Lnxguy - I have already done this and it also made absolutely no difference other than throwing a CEL. I am seeing no black smoke out of the tailpipe.
 

sardo_67

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Location
CT
TDI
2015 Golf SEL 6spd
ok so I have the same question as the OP here, I am new to the BEW motor and want to get rid of the EGR dumping soot into the intake. I deleted the EGR cooler on my ALH motors and they took FOREVER to warm up when it's cold out so I would prefer to keep the cooler, just block off the part where it dumps into the intake.

I can do this with just 2 block off plates and 2 gaskets?
 
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