1985 1.6L tdi being swapped to a Suzuki Samurai

I have the engine from the Quantum. It will not fit unless I can get an exhaust manifold that places the turbo on the top. My swap-kit supplier tells me that I need the manifold and turbo from a transverse 1.6 tdi. I have not been successful with my local vw dealer in finding which cars had the transverse diesel with the turbo on top. I would like to try a junkyard part first, then see if my quattro turbo fits the replacement manifold - before I go buying a new turbo of either top or bottom configuration.

Can anyone help?

Exactly which engine are you trying to install (and where did you find a diesel quattro)??.

1.6 VWs are NOT TDIs, but TDs, and don't have near enough turbo to feed a TDI. The only high-mount I can think of is the 1.9 TD (and Eco-diesel), but these are far less power - and again not nearly enough turbo if you are running a TDI. Aoother thing I have never even tried (but someone here will have an instant answer for) is are the exhaust ports the same? All of our TDI parts and even old gaskets are at the other shop and I can't get to them in a hurry (old engines are here).

Pat

My Mistake - Quantum, not Quattro!!

The engine that I have is from an 85 Quantum! It is a 4 cylinder 1.6 TDI. The turbo sits on the right side of the engine, below and to the rear of the exhaust manifold.

I need a manifold and turbo that sits on the top side of the exhaust manifold. I have not been successful in finding out which vehicles had the turbo-on-top configuration. I would like to find one in a junkyard first, but I don't yet know what to ask for!

Sorry about the "Quattro" mistake - must have been too excited at the prospect of people knowing stuff!

Thanks!

Sorry, but it's NOT a TDI. TD yes, TDI no. VW didnt even start to think about TDI's until the mid 90's. As far as I know, there is not a "top turbo" factory manifold from VW. I think there were a few aftermarket kits that used that configuration, but I could be wrong. Look for a turbo manifold for 8v VW gasser engines, some of them were top-mount and will fit the 1.6TD fine. (Cant say how the intake manifold will fit though)

Also, I'll be using a factory 1.6TD turbo in my TDI-M application, at least for a little while, it should be more than enough boost for what I need.

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v <-- TDI swap in progress
01 Jeep TJ 4.0

Or for an easy conversion, get a Peugeot XUD imported, with the matching factory bellhousing for the original tranny...

1.6L not a TDI - Still trying to swap!

OK - I now understand about the non-tdi part. Are you kicking me out of the club?

My diesel does have a turbo (from the factory). It has direct injection into the cylinders from a pump mounted on the left side of the engine, driven from the front, (I believe). I have pictures of the "way it's supposed to look" before it goes into the Samurai (from Rocky-Road.com and shows up under their "AXIS Power conversion" under Suzuki Samurai's)

I need to read more on the difference between TD's and TDI's! (I don't understand your reference to a "TDI-M" for example!) I will do a little more homework and maybe be able to ask for the correct things.

Thanks for the help. If you think of anything that might help, let me know.

What might be confusing you is that even though the fuel appears to be injected straight into the cylinder, it is actually termed "indirect injection" since it has a pre-chamber.

Where was the turbo on the Jetta TD's of that vintage?

Paul's right. The TDI has a "prechamber" in the piston, and the fuel goes directly into the combustion chamber. Nah, we wont kick you out. I'm pretty sure all of the 1.6TD's had the turbo underneath. Larrysoffroad, you might want to check out www.vwdiesel.net I know there are at least two Samurai TD conversions on there, they might be able to help you out. Also, when I refer to "TDI-M" it means I am getting rid of the computer controlled injection pump on the TDI and using a mechanical pump. The 1.5, 1.6 and early IDI 1.9's did not have a computer controlled pump, but they were also not TDI engines. Hopefully that cleared some things up and not confused you more.

Brendan
84 Scirocco 8v <-- TDI swap in progress
01 Jeep TJ 4.0

The 1.6 L TD is an IDI (InDirect Injection ) . No TDIs ( Turbocharged Direct Injection ) in North America until the 1996 .

I believe the exhaust manifold you're looking for is from a TD 1.6L Golf or Jetta. They're not mounted up top but they're mounted differently than that of the quantum. Try ebay. The manifold you're seeking should be relatively easy to find, if you're looking in the right places.

Thanks - I have more research to do, then will try my dealer for an exact year and model (Golf, Jetta, etc.) and then will be off to the junkyard.

You guys are a tremendous help. Thanks for not kicking me out of the club!
Larry

Here's the engine bay of my '91, you can see how the turbo is mounted kinda high on the back. I can get a better picture if you need it.



-Jason

Yes - compu_85. I believe that's it! If your engine is a turbo diesel, not a TDI, then that is probably what I'm looking for. When I get home, I'll send you an email with the finished product as advertised by my conversion kit vendor. (I can send the 2 pictures to anyone else who wants, too - not trying to be stingy.) .... I don't see yet how to post photos into the regular thread here. (I know - "newbies".) Thanks for your help and the picture.

Yes, my engine is a Turbo Diesel... of sorts. It's got a smaller turbo then the regular turbo diesel and no boost fuel enrichment.

-Jason

compu_85 said:

Yes, my engine is a Turbo Diesel... of sorts. It's got a smaller turbo then the regular turbo diesel and no boost fuel enrichment.

-Jason

Click to expand...

That car has 59 hp/ 89 lb-ft 1.6 L TD . With the change to a pump with an enrichment valve & an intercooler the power can be bumped up to the 80 hp / 110 lb-ft range .

That is what they did with that engine in the Audi 80 before the 1.9 L IDI TD came along in the late 80s . That low mass turbo can put out just as much boost as the older heavier model . And it spools up much quicker under load to get that power to wheels quicker .

OK, now what?

If I can swap turbos and injector pumps on this engine, which pump (or from what year and which model) and turbo do I want to get the greater power? Also, what about electronics (or were they using any computers?) on the mid to late '80's turbo diesels. Might that create a problem for my installation?

When dealing with junkyards it seems impossible to tell them what I want and have them actually look for it. I'm thinking of trying my local dealer once I get the specific turbo/pump information.

Anyone with a specific year/make/model and definition?

I swear, someone asked almost the exact same thing on the TDI-conversion yahoo group yesterday (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/TDI-conversion/). As usually happens, the thread splintered and alot of what they said went over my head, but I'm not that tall, so that happens. Anyway, maybe you can make some sense of the WTB: AAZ Exhaust and Intake Manifold thread.
I'm gearing up for my own conversion, so I'll be camping on the forums more than I have been.
Good luck,
Paul
1972 Westfalia (future TDI project)
2000 Jetta TDI

TDI to Samuri

Where did you get the adapter to fit the TDI onto the Samuri trany?

I may have some info for you...

I think I had the same problem swaping a 1.6 out of a QTD into my VW Pickup - which is a rabbit from the doors forward, the diffrence is that the quantum turbo hangs off the bottom of the manifold, between cyl. 3 and 4, if i remember right, where the rabbit/golf/jetta TD has the turbo off the top between 2 and 3. There's also another problem you're going to run into, the turbo's oil feed line goes to the wrong place, once you get the correct manifold. Also the bracket that holds the oil filter points back, where the rabbit points pretty much straight down - may not be a problem for you, but in the rabbit it puts the filter in the way of a motor mount bracket. Your turbo will also be pointed the wrong way - the compressor outlet needs to go a diffrent direction, and then once you get that turned correctly, your oil feed/return ports in the body of the turbo point the wrong way. Both of these problems can be solved by loosening and turning the housing, I had to use the torch on the exhaust side. Lets see what i've got for pictures... click on 'em for fullsize I hope they post right.
Turbo in the QTD location:

QTD motor (scope out the oil filter):

Oil filter in the way:

Bolts I loosend to rotate compressor housing:

Correct location for turbo in rabbit/golf/whatever:


Oil return line pointing the wrong way:

Diffrence between exhaust and intake manifolds between QTD and Rabbit:

QTD manifolds on the right (exhaust is upside down), and the rabbit on the left.
The list of parts that I had to find to put a QTD motor into a Rabbit pickup was:
- Oil filter bracket off Rabbit td
- Oil feed hard line off Rabbit td
- Exhaust manifold from turbo diesel rabbit
- Intake manifold from TD rabbit (if you could come up with the 90 degree intake tube deal, and could make a plug plate for the QTD manifold, you could use your quantum peice.)
Thats all I have bought so far, but its looking like I will also need the cast oil return peice off the turbo, the QTD peice is straight, I think the rabbit has a bend in it. I found all of this stuff on VW Vortex diesel parts forums. I hope this helps ya...