Smog Test in Southern California

Dear All,

I am looking into a 1999 Golf 1.9L TDI. The first and second registration on the car are both in California. I would love to buy this car but I am worry if there is any trouble for this car to get its registration in Southern California in the next few years. Any idea?

Other questions:
1: Would I have to spend lots of money to keep the car so that it can pass the smog test?
2: When I test drive the car from the dealer, what area do I need to look for and be careful about?

Thank you very much and appreciate your comments.

First time buyer of TDI...

Cheuk2004
cbkam@finevantage.com

There is NO smog tests for diesels in CA...you just send it your registration renewal money each year.

First of all, it is grandfathered in!? Also cars are required to meet the smog STANDARD in the year it came on line! So while it might seem disengenuous, 30 year old gassers (greater polluters by far) are actually smog exempt! I should have kept my 1970 VW Beetle!!

The direct answer is diesel cars below 2004 are exempt from smog certification!!! There are some side benefits to a diesel vehicle!!

I have a (gasser) 11 year old Landcruiser and although it easily has passed the biannual as well as "smog test station only" that still represents time and money lost! Not to mention late fees and repair bills if your vehicle happens not to pass. So 5 bi annuals x 45 dollars plus a smog test station only at 80 = 305.

Since the "smog only test station" became due when I lent it to my daughter in Santa Barbara, I asked her to get it done down there. The station's replied they couldn't do a smog test on a vehicle domiciled in another county. SO.... I had to make a special trip (600 miles R/T) to do the test less than one mile from my house!!!!

The other thing is to do a search about your particular model and year.

Cheuk2004's question is: What will be happening to smog inspection for existing diesel vehicles in the future? The answer is: its unclear. The last I heard, CARB wanted to implement retroactive installation of aftermarket particulate traps on virtually all existing diesel vehicles and begin bi-annual smog inspection of said vehicles. The trucking industry has been fighting this issue like mad as you can imagine. Do some web research on this and let us know what you find.

As to used car problem issues to be aware of, search the two A4 Forum sections.

Hmm... I don't think CARB would ever attempt to implement mandatory retrofitting of any vehicle class. The legal and manufacturer issues alone would be so problematic, even if it actually happened, the legal battling would hold it off for years.

Another thought:
If CARB was to single out only diesel vehicles, why not older gasoline cars not fitted with catalytic converters?

Consider crunching the numbers of diesels vs. exempt gasoline cars, the quantity of pollutants per vehicles, adjusting that for severity of said pollutant in regard to CARB standards, ...

Appendix 3, page 30 from the above:

"The inventory of diesel-fueled passenger cars, light-duty trucks, medium-duty vehicles, and
motor homes will be examined in more detail to determine if retrofits for these vehicles
would be a cost-effective diesel PM reduction strategy."

CARB has done it before. When I moved to LA in 1974 from Arizona we had to have an EGR kit added to our Toyota (gasoline). As I recall it cost about $65.
A few years later CA rescinded the ruling and if you left the kit on your car they refunded your money. Otherwise you were allowed to remove it.

I am looking into a 1999 Golf 1.9L TDI.
1: Would I have to spend lots of money to keep the car so that it can pass the smog test?

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Before 2004, TDI engines had 50-state emissions compliance (the 2004 limits become lower, so for 2004, TDI engines no longer meet CARB emissions). So the 1999 TDI engine car should be registerable in California. Even if it wasn't 50-state emissions compliant, if it has 7,500 miles or more on it, it is registerable in California.

Currently, diesel cars are not subject to biannual smog checks in California. This may change. There is a warranty on some emissions-related components -- see the owner's manual.

2: When I test drive the car from the dealer, what area do I need to look for and be careful about?

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http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Number=710113

If anything it would have to meet the rules in force on the date of manufacture, that is: 1999, not 2004.

Before 2004, TDI engines had 50-state emissions compliance (the 2004 limits become lower, so for 2004, TDI engines no longer meet CARB emissions). So the 1999 TDI engine car should be registerable in California. Even if it wasn't 50-state emissions compliant, if it has 7,500 miles or more on it, it is registerable in California.

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So could I buy a used (>7500mi) 2004 TDI on the east coast, and sell it to my friend in CA? Could she then register it with no problem?

Yes, indeed.

I am not sure if you understand what "grandfathered in" really means.

"What will be happening to smog inspection for existing diesel vehicles in the future? The answer is: its unclear."

Or if you chose to reject this notion, then it is not a stretch to say ANY smog inspections for any vehicle can also be unclear?

I think I answered the question. Whether you like the answer or not is a different story. Just like a 30 year old car meets the "exemption" to smog standards requirements! This is curious in light of today's standards, being as how it would be easy to say a 30 year old car by today's standards is a "gross polluter"?

On the other hand progress is hard won! They used to have a requirement for (a gasser)annual smog certificate. I think someone sued, citing the federal mandate that cars have a smog guarantee of between 7/10 years. While I don't know the real details, 1. there is now a "no" requirement for first 4 years of a car bought new 2. there is a bi annual (every two years) requirement after that. I have described the "test only" station requirement for my 1994 (10 years old) where they are sent because a test only station has a quota for "failing" vehicles (to keep and maintain the "test only status"). Not only that, I had to pay double (over a smog station) for this privilege.

I think I answered the question. Whether you like the answer or not is a different story. Just like a 30 year old car meets the "exemption" to smog standards requirements! This is curious in light of today's standards, being as how it would be easy to say a 30 year old car by today's standards is a "gross polluter"?

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If California had new vehicle emission standards for diesel PM, HC and CO for passenger vehicles sold in the state during '96-'03, then it certainly would be within CARB's pervue and legal authority to require bi-annual inspections for some tiered threshold levels of those emissions, just as it does for gas vehicles.

Retrofitting of particulate traps to lower emissions to a level lower than was originally required when new is another issue entirely. I think it is unlikely this will happen, but not because CARB wouldn't like to see it happen. Their will has been tempered over the years by the strength of will of the forces that oppose them. But if a cancer cluster involving little kids develops somewhere in California and is proven to be caused by diesel PM from school buses, all bets are off.

"If California had new vehicle emission standards for diesel PM, HC and CO for passenger vehicles sold in the state during '96-'03, then it certainly would be within CARB's pervue and legal authority to require bi-annual inspections for some tiered threshold levels of those emissions, just as it does for gas vehicles. "

Mine was bought NEW during this period, and there was no requirement for the bi annual inspections. My take with this even in place is there is NOT a requirement for diesels such as ours.

Again your school bus example highlights the hypocrisy rampant in CA. School buses for at least 2 generations have been transporting children. School buses have NO seat belts! This is very curious in light of the fact you can almost be arrested for transporting your kid with no seat belts in a car. Or perhaps the cops can call the department of social services for potential child abuse prevention!? I also dare say that school buses owned by the state are exempt from any pollution standards!! Also as you probably noticed fed state and local owned vehicles are quite literally EXEMPT and have that on the license plates!!! I doubt wholeheartedly that you are suggesting that as soon as soon as a vehicle has fed state local ownership that it magically ceases to pollute? So really it is a revenue "scheme" as the Brits would say. Yet you are arguing that if someone starts a "witch" hunt that someone is going to link your TDI to the longtitudinal cause of school childrens high cancer rate??? I think the real issue is witch hunting is still alive and well in CA! The liberals dont even need a license!

Mine was bought NEW during this period, and there was no requirement for the bi annual inspections. My take with this even in place is there is NOT a requirement for diesels such as ours.

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You didn't understand my point, but no matter...

Here is a 1-page synopsis of the CDRR plan along with charts at the bottom highlighting more recent diesel regulations passed and those in development. CARB has been focused primarily on heavy duty, offroad and marine applications. If the media doesn't fan the flames of demonic diesel emissions, CARB may keep its focus there, but if diesels become machina non grata in the public consciousness, even the small number of newer "low emission" diesel passenger vehicles could be tarred by this brush. CARB has been kept in check by political, social and financial realities in the recent past, but their agenda has never changed...I think they would relish the freedom to implement retrofittment and inspection programs for ALL diesels if they felt they had a mandate from the public via the legislature.

Let me go and say what you probably left out! If they had their way they would probably ban ALL diesels. Your point is well understood. The real nexus is how does this apply in this thread? And specifically to passenger vehicle diesels?

I get into Santa Barbara, CA a lot, and for folks that do not know, gas and diesel are probably some of the most expensive in CA, dare I say in the USA.

I think all these regulatory agencies need to do to get their worst nightmare fulfilled is to keep raising the price of unleaded gasoline. Unleaded gasoline in Europe is 4/5/6/ dollars a gal. The diesel passenger vehicle fleet is 45% and climbing.

I think the real issue is witch hunting is still alive and well in CA! The liberals dont even need a license!

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