Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

NarfBLAST

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
52172 said:
Doesn't seem right I'm running moogs ft and rr with bilstein sports and drive the ***** hard no problems and 100k miles.
Click to expand...
You agree the pictures don't seem right? The coils are too close together?

I forgot to mention I have 1" plus 1cm spacers stacked on top of the strut but that shouldn't affect the compressed height of the spring. I am running Bilstien TC's for strtus.

I do also like to drive it hard too as in at least once a week I like to jump a set of train tracks and I never slow down for speed bumps. The Moog springs still seem to work just fine other than the strut bearings that need replacing, unless its the coils that are making the grinding noise in which case I think replacing the coils and bearings at the same time is probably a good idea while I am in there. I am hoping to be able to "feel" how bad the strut bearings are when I take them out and confirm. Will post pictures of the final product. Can't wait to get started. Just getting all the little kids to bed. :D
 
52172

52172

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Location
Buellton, Ca
TDI
2001 Golf TDI GLS
Yea I agree that's a major difference. Did the ride height change? You may have gained suspension travel?
 
NarfBLAST

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
52172 said:
Yea I agree that's a major difference. Did the ride height change? You may have gained suspension travel?
Click to expand...
Yes, the ride height is up at least one inch with the Suplex VR6 Wagon front springs: I suspected it would be so I left out the 1cm spacer on each strut but still gained half an inch over the previous Moog VR6 front springs. Right now all four corners measure right around 28" from the ground to the highest part in the center of each wheel arch opening. This is with seasoned OEM Jetta Wagon rear springs. I expect the Suplex springs to settle maybe half an inch which would put me back to my preferred slight forward rake. If they settle more I can always re-install the 1cm spacers.

I am sure I have gained suspension travel, at least 30mm (over an inch) if you add up two coils at 15mm each when coil bind happens. The front seems to be able to soak up big speed bumps better, I have been testing it every chance I get.

Anyway, I also replaced strut bearings, mounts, sway bar bushing and end links and the front end doesn't clunk or grunt or groan anymore so I think that is improving the feel of the car more than the springs.

Just wondering if anyone else was seeing the tell tale marks of coil bind on their Moog springs, and if it matters to ride, I think it matters:

 
52172

52172

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2007
Location
Buellton, Ca
TDI
2001 Golf TDI GLS
I can see slight marks on mine where coil bind happens. Car still feels pretty good though cause I replaced everything when the moogs went in. Im gonna leave as is.
 
S

SilverWagon

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Location
California
TDI
2003 Jetta
I'm in the market for a suspension overhaul on my 2003 wagon and a sedan. I don't want to raise either vehicle but I'm wondering how these springs are working out for the guys who have put a lot of miles on them? I considered the suplex vr6 springs but if I don't have to spend that much on springs that will last, why should I. Any recommendations would be much appreciated.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk
 
W

Wilkins

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Location
British Columbia
TDI
05 Jetta Wagon 5sp, 10 Sportwagen 6MT
No sign of coil binding on mine but they are pretty low mileage and I rarely hit long travel bumps. I only have 26.5 to the top of the wheel arch though, with spacers and those coils are pretty tightly spaced... They feel fine, I'm not changing anything until I have a real problem.
 
S

slosrtnick

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Location
Saint Charles, MO
TDI
None anymore, VR6 now (short commute now)
Just bought the 81055 and 81134 Moog springs with Koni STR.T struts and shocks (Jetta wagon version) for my GTI VR6. I'm hoping to get a good level lift from it.

Has anybody used the Evolution 1" lift spacers as well? I bought those as well, but I'm thinking it may not all fit together all said and done. I feel like the strut will be maxed out up front once it's all put together.

Any advise for me? Am I dreaming when I want a 2-2 1/2" lift for my GTI?

Nick
 
runonbeer

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
With the ultra-crappy MOOG springs you will get zero lift and have the exact same problems that NarfBlast and I have had. Coil bind, "Pong-ing" and clunking.
The MOOG springs are turds. Don't install them. You will regret it.
The 1" lift will make it even worse.

Buy some quality Suplex springs. Hats off to idParts for finding those.

slosrtnick said:
Just bought the 81055 and 81134 Moog springs with Koni STR.T struts and shocks (Jetta wagon version) for my GTI VR6. I'm hoping to get a good level lift from it.

Has anybody used the Evolution 1" lift spacers as well? I bought those as well, but I'm thinking it may not all fit together all said and done. I feel like the strut will be maxed out up front once it's all put together.

Any advise for me? Am I dreaming when I want a 2-2 1/2" lift for my GTI?

Nick
Click to expand...
 
S

slosrtnick

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Location
Saint Charles, MO
TDI
None anymore, VR6 now (short commute now)
runonbeer said:
With the ultra-crappy MOOG springs you will get zero lift and have the exact same problems that NarfBlast and I have had. Coil bind, "Pong-ing" and clunking.
The MOOG springs are turds. Don't install them. You will regret it.
The 1" lift will make it even worse.
Buy some quality Suplex springs. Hats off to idParts for finding those.
Click to expand...
The Suplex springs sound great, but a little pricey for my blood. Being triple the price of the Moog springs, are they worth it? I already spent enough money on this suspension as it is.

Nick
 
S

slosrtnick

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Location
Saint Charles, MO
TDI
None anymore, VR6 now (short commute now)
Alright, I didn't want to risk it, so I ended up buying the Suplex Jetta wagon vr6 front springs and Jetta wagon rears from idparts. More money spent, but hopefully for the best. I don't want to have to redo the suspension anytime soon. Lol
 
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OlyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
'04 Golf
I'll post this here given that this has become the one-stop-shopping thread for lifting.

I bought used VR6 (2blue/2white) front springs and used wagon rears about 5 years ago for an eventual suspension refresh and lift. Well, I finally got to it this week at 138K miles.

I was dragging pretty low (a little over 3 inches of clearance under the skid plate) and I couldn't even go up a mild gravel driveway without scraping. I was about 2 inches lower in the front than the rear.

I replaced the stock shocks/struts with Koni FSDs. In addition to the springs and Konis, I had the tie rods, ball joints, sway bushings, LCAs (Audi TT), and all mounts, bumps, boots, etc., done. I used the firm 034 track density front strut mounts and bearings. I had 2 VW 10mm spacers stacked up front. I put on new Pirelli P7 Cinturatos all around.

The end result is excellent. The front came up about 2-1/2 inches and about an inch in the rear leaving about a half inch forward rake overall. Perfect.

The ride is firm and very smooth. Dips and bumps are absorbed well. Roll minimized significantly. Road noise is diminished and most enjoyably, the stock understeer has been reduced greatly. It's now flat neutral to maybe just a hint of understeer -- barely detectable. Again, perfect for my daily driver.

Anyway, it was by no means cheap but I think I'm good to go for at least another 150K miles if not more. I'm now looking at what the hit on mileage will be.

Can't wait to try it out on a logging road!
 
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S

slosrtnick

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Location
Saint Charles, MO
TDI
None anymore, VR6 now (short commute now)
OlyTDI said:
I'll post this here given that this has become the one-stop-shopping thread for lifting.

I bought used VR6 (2blue/2white) front springs and used wagon rears about 5 years ago for an eventual suspension refresh and lift. Well, I finally got to it this week at 138K miles.

I was dragging pretty low (a little over 3 inches of clearance under the skid plate) and I couldn't even go up a mild gravel driveway without scraping. I was about 2 inches lower in the front than the rear.

I replaced the stock shocks/struts with Koni FSDs. In addition to the springs and Konis, I had the tie rods, ball joints, sway bushings, LCAs (Audi TT), and all mounts, bumps, boots, etc., done. I used the firm 034 track density front strut mounts and bearings. I had 2 VW 10mm spacers stacked up front. I put on new Pirelli P7 Cinturatos all around.

The end result is excellent. The front came up about 2-1/2 inches and about an inch in the rear leaving about a half inch forward rake overall. Perfect.

The ride is firm and very smooth. Dips and bumps are absorbed well. Roll minimized significantly. Road noise is diminished and most enjoyably, the stock understeer has been reduced greatly. It's now flat neutral to maybe just a hint of understeer -- barely detectable. Again, perfect for my daily driver.

Anyway, it was by no means cheap but I think I'm good to go for at least another 150K miles if not more. I'm now looking at what the hit on mileage will be.

Can't wait to try it out on a logging road!
Click to expand...
Do you have any pics to share? I just installed Suplex wagon rear springs on my GTI yesterday along with my 1" Evolution spacers and I think it may sit a little too high. Thinking of taking the spacers out and just using the wagon rears. Would like to see some pics before I do it.

Nick
 
O

OlyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
'04 Golf
slosrtnick said:
Do you have any pics to share? I just installed Suplex wagon rear springs on my GTI yesterday along with my 1" Evolution spacers and I think it may sit a little too high. Thinking of taking the spacers out and just using the wagon rears. Would like to see some pics before I do it.

Nick
Click to expand...
I'll try to get some up over the weekend. Don't have any before photos...
 
TDIJetta99

TDIJetta99

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Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
O

OlyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
'04 Golf
slosrtnick said:
Do you have any pics to share? I just installed Suplex wagon rear springs on my GTI yesterday along with my 1" Evolution spacers and I think it may sit a little too high. Thinking of taking the spacers out and just using the wagon rears. Would like to see some pics before I do it.

Nick
Click to expand...
Here you go...

 
O

OlyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
'04 Golf
slosrtnick said:
Looks great! I'm excited to get my front suspension done. But it may be a few weeks for me. Got a couple of other projects to finish before u tear apart the front.

Thanks for the pic!
Nick
Click to expand...

Yeah, the rear wagon springs I put on (factory VW wagon springs) raised the rear up to that limit of what I'd be interested in. I wouldn't want it any higher. That said, in a year or two, things should settle a bit and be a little less "severe."

I don't know the degree to which you can compare the Suplex to the VW stock wagon rears...
 
G

golfclub

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Location
Victoria B.C.
TDI
2000 TDI Golf
My ! !/2" lift

After spending a lot of time reading posts,I settled on this.
Koni Reds currently at soft. Suplex regular Golf springs front and rear.
One and a half inch spacers front and rear. Rear shocks mounted
higher to bring range of motion back to stock. I felt that a 1" lift wasn't
enough to be worth the trouble and didn't want to go up 2"
I also did all the front and rear suspension pieces and bearings to get
it all over at once. The car now sits at 28" from ground to fender opening.
The ride is great for me (older and not racing front point A to B).
Before I started I had the hidden nuts in the front sub frame welded up just
to be sure.
Everything went well, only a bolt clamping the strut in had to be cut off.
It was a major expense for the car (330,000Km) but I like the car and plan
to get many miles out of it.

Cheers

Peter
 
S

slosrtnick

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Location
Saint Charles, MO
TDI
None anymore, VR6 now (short commute now)
OlyTDI said:
Yeah, the rear wagon springs I put on (factory VW wagon springs) raised the rear up to that limit of what I'd be interested in. I wouldn't want it any higher. That said, in a year or two, things should settle a bit and be a little less "severe."

I don't know the degree to which you can compare the Suplex to the VW stock wagon rears...
Click to expand...
Well, just the Suplex wagon rears on stock 205/55R16 put it at 28" from ground to fender arch. The spacers put it up another 1". I'm waiting to see what kind of lift I can get with the front. If I have to add the spacers back into the back, I will. Then I'm going with 215/65R16 All Terrain tires to finish it off. Will be close to 30" or more from ground to fender arch hopefully.

Nick
 
S

slosrtnick

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Location
Saint Charles, MO
TDI
None anymore, VR6 now (short commute now)
golfclub said:
After spending a lot of time reading posts,I settled on this.
Koni Reds currently at soft. Suplex regular Golf springs front and rear.
One and a half inch spacers front and rear. Rear shocks mounted
higher to bring range of motion back to stock. I felt that a 1" lift wasn't
enough to be worth the trouble and didn't want to go up 2"
I also did all the front and rear suspension pieces and bearings to get
it all over at once. The car now sits at 28" from ground to fender opening.
The ride is great for me (older and not racing front point A to B).
Before I started I had the hidden nuts in the front sub frame welded up just
to be sure.
Everything went well, only a bolt clamping the strut in had to be cut off.
It was a major expense for the car (330,000Km) but I like the car and plan
to get many miles out of it.
Cheers
Peter
Click to expand...
How did you mount the rear shocks higher? My shocks are pretty much extended to the max already. Curious about this. Can you explain a little further? Also pics would be great!

Nick
 
G

golfclub

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Location
Victoria B.C.
TDI
2000 TDI Golf
Nick;
I got the idea on one of these threads where the guy did it and showed some pictures.
It might be the other thread 2" LIFT FOR UNDER $40.
Basically you use some pieces of angle iron and bolt them into the original lower
mount location and then bolt the shock up higher on these extension pieces.
Pretty simple and can be done with just a drill and hack saw.
Achieving the same result on the front struts seems much more complicated.
Hope this helps.

Peter
 
E

export!

Active member
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Location
Canada
TDI
'02 Golf
Getting ready to make a parts order to refresh the ride on my 02 Golf TDI. IT HAS 160,000km and I've know I've snapped a coil off each rear spring. She's laying low and I'm starting to scrape obstacles that were previously no problem.

I have no intentions of bettering the stock ride. If I gain a bit of height that's fine. I don't want to drop $ on Koni or Bilstein. I want something that I can expect to last 3yrs without breaking the bank. ... (under $400 total).

Here's where my list is at from Rock Auto;

MOOG 81055 {#310270} Sold In Pairs Constant Rate Spring
Rear; Constant Rate Spring

MOOG ST8602
Front; Strut, Spring & Top Mount

BILSTEIN 19029429 {Replacement
Rear; Standard Suspension

: Shock Mount
KYB SM5182 Mount Components
Rear Upper

ÜRO PARTS 1J0512131B Strut Bump Stop
Rear

Strut Bearing
SACHS 801016 {#1J0412249, 357412249, 357412249A, 95VW3K031AA} Quantity per Axle: 2
Front


How am I doing? Do I need to order rear spring bushings/seats ?? I'm hoping this is still a massive jump in quality from the Unity kit that can give up within a few weeks/months.

Edit: I'm at around $365 + shipping right now
 
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