DSG transmission acting funky

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
Hey all, I've got a nice 2005 beetle TDI with the DSG transmission and I regularly get a limp mode, flashing PRNDS light. Restart the car and off it goes. The strange thing is no code. I've plugged in my code reader, mechanic plugged in his and there are no transmission error codes stored. What kind of problem causes limp mode but no error code in the transmission? Presumably limp mode/flashing PRNDS light indicates a transmission fault, so why wouldn't it throw a code. Kind of baffling...
 

mr.loops

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Location
Kelowna
TDI
2002 jetta, 2003 Bora 1.8T
Was a VCDS used, or just a generic OBD2 scanner?

I ask because Ross tech’s tool can pull fault codes that the generic scanners often miss


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
Was a VCDS used, or just a generic OBD2 scanner?

I ask because Ross tech’s tool can pull fault codes that the generic scanners often miss


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Both used were generic, but powerful enough to do transmission, SRS, etc, not some cheap DTC reader. I've always been able to read tranny codes on other makes with it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You need a proper scan tool, there are DTCs somewhere. Generics don't tell the whole story.
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
OK, I dug out my VCDS which I never needed with my Jetta TDI, scanned it, and again, no codes anywhere. I haven't updated the VCDS in 3 year but that shouldn't matter given that the car is a 2005?
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
You should upload the scan to this thread so someone can see what's happening. If you have flashing gear selector icons , you have a code or communication error.
What specifically would I upload? When I scan for error codes it says no codes found, or something like that.

I'm wondering if the plug to the tranny needs cleaning.

The car also needs a new DMF, but it's just starting to make noise when cold, and I have no idea when the oil/filter was last changed.
 

tactdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2005.5 Jetta
Perform an Autoscan using the cable, that will scan all the modules in the car, and produce a long report. Copy the report to a text file.
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
This is what I got. Not much info here.

VCDS Version: Release 12.12.0
Data version: 20130910

Friday,17,January,2020,09:24:46:62939

Chassis Type: 1C (1C - VW New Beetle (1998 > 2010))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 22 25 26 29 35 37 39 46 54 56 65 75

VIN: 3VWCR31C35M411407 Mileage: 293890km/182614miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 997 016 S HW: 028 101 181 3
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000DG 0283
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: VWZ5Z0E0261099
Coding: 0150038
Shop #: WSC 20158 444 98171
VCID: 2E53E833BAE29E6E36F-5072

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 02E-300-0xx.lbl
Part No SW: 02E 300 041 S HW: 02E 927 770 AD
Component: GSG DSG 070 0806
Revision: 04507000 Serial number: 00000505110982
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 44551 111 44551
VCID: 224B0C03FE3A2A0EA27-5072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Coding: 0019458
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3467FA5B54CEB4BE40B-5072

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1T0-909-605.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 AK
Component: 01 AIRBAG VW71 0811
Coding: 0012337
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 800FE68BD0F6581E143-5072

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C0 959 339 B
Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0006

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1C0-920-x4x.lbl
Part No: 1C0 920 951 M
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 V02
Coding: 11232
Shop #: WSC 91490
VCID: 2B55E127D9F0EB46111-4A3A
3VWCR31C35M411407 VWZ5Z0E0261099

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN V022
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: F0EFB64BB056489EE43-4A3A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 G
Component: 2K Komfortger·t HLO 0004
Coding: 00064
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 3B75D16729907BC6811-4A9C

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C2959802A
Component: 2K Tırsteuer.FS KLO 0202

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C2959801A
Component: 2K Tırsteuer.BF KLO 0202

5 Faults Found:
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
35-00 - -
00932 - Electric Window Motor; Drivers Side (V147)
62-10 - No or Incorrect Adjustment - Intermittent
01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386)
37-00 - Faulty
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387)
37-00 - Faulty

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
Part No: 1C0 035 196 M
Component: RADIO DE2 0003
Coding: 06031
Shop #: WSC 00066
VCID: 29591B2FD30CF956E3D-50E6

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
Finally got a code today. P2711 Unexpected Mechanical gear disengagement. Not surprising as I had put it into reverse and nothing happened until restart the car. It's done that a few times. Other times it went into limp mode while driving forward, though it's never not gone into forward gears.
 
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rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
No ideas? Is this not the appropriate forum for discussing tranny issues? Ive read several online accounts that say reverse issues are likely mechatronic problems, but without any details. If it is the mechatronic I'd like to service it myself as parts are available, rather than replacing the whole thing.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
If you have no clue when the fluid was last changed, I'd start there, including a new filter. You may find it is low on fluid.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Most DSG maladies are remedied with a new M-unit, yes. Really the only thing you can do is:

Make sure the fluid is clean and full.

Make sure the connector to the M-unit at the front of the transmission (near the starter) is not full of corrosion or anything.

Make sure all the battery cables and ground points are good and clean.
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
I've tried to find service info, exploded diagram etc of the mechatronic itself. It should be serviceable. It's crazy to swap out the whole component when there's serviceable parts on it. But having no luck finding out which circuits control reverse. There's tons of online info on ordinary valve bodies but does anyone have any sources for this unit?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I've tried to find service info, exploded diagram etc of the mechatronic itself. It should be serviceable. It's crazy to swap out the whole component when there's serviceable parts on it. But having no luck finding out which circuits control reverse. There's tons of online info on ordinary valve bodies but does anyone have any sources for this unit?

Google "02E DSG self study guide" and you can find a .pdf of the VAG basic introduction for that transmission.

They do not service parts of the M-unit. This is pretty typical, lots of manufacturers do not service individual components of a larger assembly. Therefor, they do not bother to publish any information on that granular of a level. The aftermarket sometimes has solutions for common problems, but not always.

You can certainly take the M-unit out, and take it all apart, and visually check things (like all the little tiny thimble strainers they have for debris clogging a passage) but as far as solenoids go, that will be harder beyond simply checking for ON/OFF unless you have a way to measure current AND have a known-good one right next to you to compare.

Toyota won't sell you hybrid battery parts either, but plenty of people have taken them apart and figured out ways to fix things in them. Same thing. But in this case, most folks would just install a new M-unit. I would. And that is what I would do for my customers if this problem came into our shop, and I would stand behind the repair because I am 99% sure that would fix it. Sorry if I do not have a silver bullet, or a wooden bullet (since you are clearly looking for something cheap), but... :(
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
That kind of attitude will not get you help especially when the guys are giving you they're expert advice for free.
You've been given advice by some of the more experienced people in this forum, if I were you,I'd take it.
Diagnose problem first, then fix the problem. Dont throw parts at it hoping it will fix problem.
Again DSG isn't a generic transmission, stop thinking of it like it is.
You're assuming negativity when there wasn't any. It was a legit question, that maybe my questions would be better answered elsewhere. Sometimes there are few answers because the expertise required exceeds that available. There's no disrespect intended in that.

And if you read the thread you'll see that I have done the diagnosis suggested.
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
Google "02E DSG self study guide" and you can find a .pdf of the VAG basic introduction for that transmission.
They do not service parts of the M-unit. This is pretty typical, lots of manufacturers do not service individual components of a larger assembly. Therefor, they do not bother to publish any information on that granular of a level. The aftermarket sometimes has solutions for common problems, but not always.
You can certainly take the M-unit out, and take it all apart, and visually check things (like all the little tiny thimble strainers they have for debris clogging a passage) but as far as solenoids go, that will be harder beyond simply checking for ON/OFF unless you have a way to measure current AND have a known-good one right next to you to compare.
Toyota won't sell you hybrid battery parts either, but plenty of people have taken them apart and figured out ways to fix things in them. Same thing. But in this case, most folks would just install a new M-unit. I would. And that is what I would do for my customers if this problem came into our shop, and I would stand behind the repair because I am 99% sure that would fix it. Sorry if I do not have a silver bullet, or a wooden bullet (since you are clearly looking for something cheap), but... :(
It's not a matter of being cheap, even if 2 grand for a part is insane. It's more because I've been a tech of one type of another most of my life and learned to troubleshoot down to the component level, not just yank out major parts and toss them. Sometimes it can be done, sometimes it can't, but it's certainly worth the try. If nothing else you learn a LOT about the component you're working on.

I did go through the material you suggested and it seems that solenoid valve 4 N91 controls oil pressure to select 4th and reverse gears. Which gear is chosen depends on which clutch is pressurized. Choosing those gears is accomplished by a solenoid, which pressurizes either one side or another of the shift actuator.

That the mechatronic unit usually causes this problem, that suggests the fault isn't in the gears, actuator or clutches. So that either leaves the drive electronics for that control solenoid, the solenoid itself, or the passages. Any of those should be able to be tested/examined.

This troubleshooting might be too simple, but without any more information it's the best I can do. Also I do know that the Vag-com can display solenoid currents. And there are companies that supposedly rebuild these things so I would suspect the info is out there, somewhere

All I was asking for was if anyone knew of more detailed info to help me with this component-level diagnosis. I apologize if it came across in a negative light.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Most 02E M-units retail for around $1300. Which is actually pretty reasonable considering it is both a valve body AND a transmission controller. Many automatic transmission valve bodies are in the $1100-1500 range, and not all of those include any control unit.
 

rattlenbang

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Victoria BC
TDI
2004 wagon
Maybe I'll need to look deeper online, as all I've found so far are like 2 grand for the earlier ones; for some reason the 7 speed ones seem a lot less expensive.
 
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