Power Service & Diesel 911

I live in Upstate new York, where temperatures can be hellishly low sometimes. On occasion, I've used the above mentioned products in anticipation of the next arctic blast of bone chilling temps. It was recently minus 12ºF. around here, and power service and diesel 911 have both failed me, and failed repeatedly in past years. I've used the approximate amount in the fuel tank, and never found any difference in the problem with the gelling of fuel.
I recently went as far as dumping half an 80 oz. container of power service in my fuel tank to get my 2002 Jetta wagon going. ('Treats up to 250 gallons') I let the car run for an hour at idle to warm the engine, and fuel as much as possible. When I stepped on the pedal, The car had no power, and was billowing white smoke. I drove my wife's Subaru rather than take a chance on being stranded in the TDI. I also have a Kubota L-3200DT 3 cyl. diesel tractor, with 500 hours on the engine, and it's the same deal. It won't run, when the temp dips below 0ºF with the application of either of these two products. My Golf TDI had similar outcomes to harsh weather.
From my experience, these products are snake oil, and a complete waste of money.
I'd be interested in hearing experiences from other users who have problems with diesel fuel in the harsher months of the year....

How often do you change the Fuel Filter

Kerosene is the tried and true solution to fuel gelling. They do a good job of winterizing the diesel up here though, and I've never had any gelling of untreated fuel even at -25°.

The RED bottle of 911 is for FIXING gelled fuel...its emergency use only, and even then should be used with caution!!! It DOES cause WEAR due to the makeup of it, but compared to being stuck....
I use the WHITE PS bottle in NH YEAR ROUND...as lube, anti gel, and as a water dispersant, something the SILVER bottle of PS does not do.

DO NOT USE THE RED UNLESS YOUR FUEL IS ALREADY GELLED...and even then ONLY of you cannot get the car towed to sit in a warm garage overnight!!

Modern fuel has most of the waxes, etc removed to lower the sulfur content, so geling less of an issue as long as you buy fuel from high turn over stations! the changes are largely done at the refinery level, with most suppliers pretreating.

Honestly...I have seem colder...think you have a fuel supplier issue and or a bad filter.

To amplify - the SILVER bottle of Power Service is for SUMMER (maybe late spring and early fall) use only. Use the White bottle for antigell help.


If you're having trouble when using these - keep in mind they are only helpers - your base fuel needs to be properly treated by the refiner / supplier. Sounds like you need to check out other diesel service stations. As it was said - look for the stations that get a high amount of commercial diesel truck traffic - they turnover quick, etc...

I am using Hot Shots Secrets winter Diesel treat now the only time I ever had a problem in a VW TDI was my 97 Passat 18 years ago and this is the 1st time in years I am using an anti gel no problems

tomo366 said:

I am using Hot Shots Secrets winter Diesel treat now the only time I ever had a problem in a VW TDI was my 97 Passat 18 years ago and this is the 1st time in years I am using an anti gel no problems

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Funny thing. When I was a Noob on this board back in 2005, I never had any problems with my '97 Passat. I remember It starting in -17ºF., even though it sounded like it had no compression for several seconds before it kicked over.. I've had problems every winter, for the last five years, or so. When the temp hits single numbers, I just leave the Jetta parked. It's not fun waiting for Triple A to come bail me out sitting in the deep freeze. In any case, I put the 'white bottle' in the tank in anticipation of harsh conditions to come, and it simply didn't work. Never had any luck with '911', either. -Poured it into the fuel filter, and the tank. The car started, but quit within a 1/4 mile.
Maybe the fuel around here is total crap......

quartersaw said:

Funny thing. When I was a Noob on this board back in 2005, I never had any problems with my '97 Passat. I remember It starting in -17ºF., even though it sounded like it had no compression for several seconds before it kicked over.. I've had problems every winter, for the last five years, or so. When the temp hits single numbers, I just leave the Jetta parked. It's not fun waiting for Triple A to come bail me out sitting in the deep freeze. In any case, I put the 'white bottle' in the tank in anticipation of harsh conditions to come, and it simply didn't work. Never had any luck with '911', either. -Poured it into the fuel filter, and the tank. The car started, but quit within a 1/4 mile.
Maybe the fuel around here is total crap......

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I think that one was my Fault.....the car was parked for about a week and had a half a tank of fuel big time cold snap and was not dosed....I had to change the fuel filter before I got it started in the DC area we don’t have big Cold snaps I have had 2 IDI’s and 9 TDI’s and have never had a problem except that time

scooperhsd said:

To amplify - the SILVER bottle of Power Service is for SUMMER (maybe late spring and early fall) use only. Use the White bottle for antigell help.


If you're having trouble when using these - keep in mind they are only helpers - your base fuel needs to be properly treated by the refiner / supplier. Sounds like you need to check out other diesel service stations. As it was said - look for the stations that get a high amount of commercial diesel truck traffic - they turnover quick, etc...

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Really sucks when the tractor won't start, and 1/8 mile of driveway doesn't get cleared. My fuel filter has maybe 20K on it. Maybe I'll change it before the next go-around.....

tomo366 said:

I think that one was my Fault.....the car was parked for about a week and had a half a tank of fuel big time cold snap and was not dosed....I had to change the fuel filter before I got it started in the DC area we don’t have big Cold snaps I have had 2 IDI’s and 9 TDI’s and have never had a problem except that time

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I considered leaving the car run all night, but I was reluctant to do this, since the turbo might not be 'happy' in the long run.

quartersaw said:

Really sucks when the tractor won't start, and 1/8 mile of driveway doesn't get cleared. My fuel filter has maybe 20K on it. Maybe I'll change it before the next go-around.....

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My Kubota L4400 has been starting fine, but the hydraulics are freezing up. Annoying since I changed the fluid a year ago. I think water is getting in around the shift lever. And yeah it really sucks when you need your tractor and it can't do the job.

And to remind you...
A SINGLE TANK of bad fuel can cost you a filter....
So miles means nothing. IN A PERFECT WORLD, the fuel system would have a clear fuel filter holder or a psi guage to show pressure drop....
Since Albany NY, even Buffalo NY weather isn't THAT extreme compared to many users here , I would suggest that you get a new fuel filter, then buy a fresh tank of fuel from a different location, then treat it properly.
Sounds like you have summer fuel (properly treated with even 2x the suggested dose should have kept you ok to Sub-Zero temps) or very wet fuel has plugging your filter (remember, warm fuel holds more moisture, then it cools, settles out)....
Sometimes a high bio content can cause filters to plug as higher bio content tends to cloud/start to gel closer to 32°.

It has to be fuel supplier issue. I buy mine from Speedway for my TDI's( sometimes reservation fuel for the older TDI), use the white Power service or Howes, never had a problem w/ gelled fuel in my TDI's since 2005. My son, however, has been using the white power service. He called me Fri. morning saying his truck started running like sh*t after filling up at a station, wouldn't get over 2000 rpms. I ended up taking some 9-1-1- and another bottle of the white power service to put in at his work. I went by this station, and I'd put money it was the fuel- smaller station that doesn't get many diesel vehicles. I need to get the filter changed on his truck shortly, especially after the suspected gelling issue....

tdidieselbobny said:

It has to be fuel supplier issue. I buy mine from Speedway for my TDI's( sometimes reservation fuel for the older TDI), use the white Power service or Howes, never had a problem w/ gelled fuel in my TDI's since 2005. My son, however, has been using the white power service. He called me Fri. morning saying his truck started running like sh*t after filling up at a station, wouldn't get over 2000 rpms. I ended up taking some 9-1-1- and another bottle of the white power service to put in at his work. I went by this station, and I'd put money it was the fuel- smaller station that doesn't get many diesel vehicles. I need to get the filter changed on his truck shortly, especially after the suspected gelling issue....

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Today, it took about 30 seconds of cranking to get the car to turn over. I very nearly lost prime the other day. Good thing I refrained from driving it. It was 57º here, today.
I will change up my fuel source, and replace the filter. The nearest truck stop is about 20 miles, as I live in the middle of nowhere.
Thanks to everyone for your input!

quartersaw said:

I live in Upstate new York, where temperatures can be hellishly low sometimes. On occasion, I've used the above mentioned products in anticipation of the next arctic blast of bone chilling temps. It was recently minus 12ºF. around here, and power service and diesel 911 have both failed me, and failed repeatedly in past years. I've used the approximate amount in the fuel tank, and never found any difference in the problem with the gelling of fuel.
I recently went as far as dumping half an 80 oz. container of power service in my fuel tank to get my 2002 Jetta wagon going. ('Treats up to 250 gallons') I let the car run for an hour at idle to warm the engine, and fuel as much as possible. When I stepped on the pedal, The car had no power, and was billowing white smoke. I drove my wife's Subaru rather than take a chance on being stranded in the TDI. I also have a Kubota L-3200DT 3 cyl. diesel tractor, with 500 hours on the engine, and it's the same deal. It won't run, when the temp dips below 0ºF with the application of either of these two products. My Golf TDI had similar outcomes to harsh weather.
From my experience, these products are snake oil, and a complete waste of money.
I'd be interested in hearing experiences from other users who have problems with diesel fuel in the harsher months of the year....

Click to expand...

I recommend changing where you fuel up and fuel up ONLY at high diesel turnover stations along major routes. Go where the big rigs go to fuel up to get only the freshest fuel in the region to avoid getting a tank of fuel contaminated with water from condensation and microbes (due to water). Avoid low diesel turnover stations at ALL costs.

Even with properly winterized fuel, you can still have problems with fuel filter ICING due to WATER in diesel fuel from condensation. With winterized fuel, the temps you experienced are cold enough for icing due to water but still too warm for gelling. Icing due to water will get you in trouble long before gelling will.

People often mistake icing for gelling. They think they have gelling problems but actually have icing instead due to water from condensation. A lot of gelling problems reported are likely due to icing from water and not actually gelling up.

Slugs of free water in diesel fuel will destroy injector pumps fairly quickly and will do so faster than poor lubricity will. The HPFP in CR diesels are more susceptible to damage from water in diesel fuel and will be destroyed in no time at all. People often blame poor lubricity for the high failure rate of the HPFP in the CR TDIs but it is more likely due to damage over time from water ingestion. To prevent freeze-ups in the bitter cold and damage to injector pumps, free water in diesel fuel absolutely must be avoided at ALL costs!

To help avoid water problems:

• Fuel up ONLY at high diesel turnover stations along major routes to get only the freshest fuel in the region. Go where the big rigs go to fuel up. Basically get your fuel where everybody else does in your area. AVOID fueling up at low turnover stations that rarely get any diesel truck traffic.
  
• Regularly use PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) with every tankful and year round to take care of any water you can't avoid getting. Note: PS Diesel Kleen (silver bottle) is summer-only and doesn't have any anti-gel and doesn't do anything for water.
  
• Keep the tank FULL and topped off at all times whenever the vehicle or equipment will not be operated for more than a few days.

A friend of mine recently had problems with his tractor in the cold. The water separator in the fuel filter was totally frozen. He had filled it up with properly winterized on-road fuel from a high turnover station before the cold snap but it didn't help. The tractor's tank had been near empty all summer long. The time to fill the tank is year round and not the night of the cold snap.

Avoiding water will prevent a lot of problems in the cold.

ZippyNH said:

And to remind you...
A SINGLE TANK of bad fuel can cost you a filter....
So miles means nothing. IN A PERFECT WORLD, the fuel system would have a clear fuel filter holder or a psi guage to show pressure drop....
Since Albany NY, even Buffalo NY weather isn't THAT extreme compared to many users here , I would suggest that you get a new fuel filter, then buy a fresh tank of fuel from a different location, then treat it properly.
Sounds like you have summer fuel (properly treated with even 2x the suggested dose should have kept you ok to Sub-Zero temps) or very wet fuel has plugging your filter (remember, warm fuel holds more moisture, then it cools, settles out)....
Sometimes a high bio content can cause filters to plug as higher bio content tends to cloud/start to gel closer to 32°.

Click to expand...

To add to what ZippyNH said, a single tank of water contaminated fuel from a station that rarely gets any diesel truck traffic can cost you a LOT more than a fuel filter.

My favorite busy truck stop at I-93 Exit 5 in Londonderry NH gets an entire tanker of diesel emptied there every day just to keep up with demand from the heavy truck traffic. I have no worries about getting watery fuel at this station.

quartersaw said:

I recently went as far as dumping half an 80 oz. container of power service in my fuel tank to get my 2002 Jetta wagon going. ('Treats up to 250 gallons') I let the car run for an hour at idle to warm the engine, and fuel as much as possible. When I stepped on the pedal, The car had no power, and was billowing white smoke. I drove my wife's Subaru rather than take a chance on being stranded in the TDI. .

Click to expand...

Sounds like your car was really cold when you added the power service. I think I have read that the power service has to be added before the fuel is so cold for it to work effectively. If I am going to use it, I add it immediately when filling up which I presume means the fuel is coming out of an under ground storage tank and thus warmer than the surrounding air. Ideally, I fill up with treated fuel before the cold snap.