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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old July 14th, 2016, 06:56   #31
DanB36
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Originally Posted by dmanb2b View Post
So anyone who purchases a used TDI from a VW dealer after June 28th is not elligble for emmisions fix or buyback?
More accurately, anyone who buys a used TDI from a VW dealer, that the VW dealer owned on (not after, on) 6/28, may not be eligible for the buyback or the cash incentive to do the fix.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 06:57   #32
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
FWIW, VW dealers were allowed to sell used TDIs up until June 28.
I can't speak to what is or was allowed, but I know that at least one VW dealer sold at least one used TDI after 6/28, too, and I'm pretty sure that isn't the only one.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 07:20   #33
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
Not sure. I'm reading conflicting info on that. And I wrote "dealer," not "VW dealer." However, I've seen TDIs advertised for sale from VW dealers. Hard to tell if they're legit or ads that just haven't been taken down. FWIW, VW dealers were allowed to sell used TDIs up until June 28. Just not CPO.
Agree, very confusing, just trying to figure all this out. I have a deposit down on a 2014 TDI from VW dealer and not sure if I should buy it or not. The price is very fair...ugh.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 07:46   #34
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Originally Posted by dmanb2b View Post
Interesting point. So anyone who purchases a used TDI from a VW dealer after June 28th is not elligble for emmisions fix or buyback? Why is VW allowing VW dealers to continue selling TDIs, post 6/28?
Dealers can sell used TDIs

generally speaking at a good (or better) price.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 08:11   #35
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Originally Posted by 2015vwgolfdiesel View Post
Dealers can sell used TDIs

generally speaking at a good (or better) price.
Sorry, where you attempting to answer either questions I had?
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Old July 14th, 2016, 09:34   #36
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Agree, very confusing, just trying to figure all this out. I have a deposit down on a 2014 TDI from VW dealer and not sure if I should buy it or not. The price is very fair...ugh.
From a common stance standpoint, VW is subject to be fined for every vehicle that it doesn't remediate, whether via buyback or repair. I would think they'd want to fix it or buy it back, but it's probably best left to a lawyer to decode whether or not your eligible for anything, and if so, how much.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 11:03   #37
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I also think that a lot could change from now until this finally rolls out. Payout amounts, discounts for condition/repairs needed, changes in how restitution is calculated...buying anything now to sell back is a gamble. I've been looking casually, but only for a vehicle I'd want to keep. I'd be happy with getting a CR at a low price regardless of whether or not I get an payback from VW.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 11:21   #38
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I also think that a lot could change from now until this finally rolls out. Payout amounts, discounts for condition/repairs needed, changes in how restitution is calculated...buying anything now to sell back is a gamble. I've been looking casually, but only for a vehicle I'd want to keep. I'd be happy with getting a CR at a low price regardless of whether or not I get an payback from VW.
That is exactly my thought, but would still be nice to know.

The CR I am looking at is a 2014 Jetta Prem with Nav & DSG. Car sold new for at least $25-27K and now with just over 58K miles on it and impeccable service records for just $12.5K

Same car I currently drive, but two years newer and 20k less miles. Not really sure if it is much of a gamble...worst case if I can't regester it in NY in 2yrs (not eligible for fix or buyback) I'd bet id still get decent private resale from someone in a state without emmissions testring.
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Old July 14th, 2016, 15:13   #39
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
I also think that a lot could change from now until this finally rolls out. Payout amounts, discounts for condition/repairs needed, changes in how restitution is calculated...buying anything now to sell back is a gamble. I've been looking casually, but only for a vehicle I'd want to keep. I'd be happy with getting a CR at a low price regardless of whether or not I get an payback from VW.

Same 'o same 'o

The rough condition car owners vs the clean condition car owners.

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Old July 28th, 2016, 10:03   #40
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It seems like yes, but careful reading of the settlement suggests that a car purchased on or after 6/28 and that was in inventory at a VW dealer on 6/28 (even if purchased later from somebody else) is ineligible for any buyback, repair or compensation because it wouldn't be an "Eligible Vehicle".
Why would a vehicle purchased from a dealer after 6/28 not qualify?

I checked the vin of a vehicle at a vw dealer i'm thinking of purchasing and its showing it is eligible.

Last edited by jables; July 28th, 2016 at 10:07.
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Old July 28th, 2016, 10:11   #41
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Why would a vehicle purchased from a dealer after 6/28 not qualify?
The definition of Eligible Vehicle requires that the car be registered with the DMV (or local equivalent), or held by bill of sale by a non-VW dealer, "as of" 6/28/16. If "as of" means "on", as it usually does, that would mean that a car owned as inventory by a VW dealer on 6/28 would not be an Eligible Vehicle. There's no logical reason for this that I can see--a car traded in to a VW dealer after 6/28 and then sold is still eligible, as is one sold by the VW dealer before 6/28, and one owned and sold by a non-VW dealer on any date--but that's the meaning that best fits how the words are usually used.

However, "as of" can also be interpreted as "on or before" or "by". With that meaning, this part of the definition operates to exclude new TDIs that hadn't been sold (at all, ever) by 6/28. This is a less common reading of "as of", but the result makes much more sense.
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Old July 28th, 2016, 11:20   #42
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However, "as of" can also be interpreted as "on or before" or "by". With that meaning, this part of the definition operates to exclude new TDIs that hadn't been sold (at all, ever) by 6/28. This is a less common reading of "as of", but the result makes much more sense.
I think this intent is probably correct. As you say, it makes zero sense otherwise and common sense should prevail. Here's a note from the Preliminary Approval the other day that helps back this up:

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The proposed Settlement Class consists of a nationwide class of all persons (including individuals and entities) who, on September 18, 2015, were registered owners or lessees of, or, in the case of Non-Volkswagen Dealers, held title to or held by bill of sale dated on or before September 18, 2015, a Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle in the United States or its territories (an “Eligible Vehicle”), or who, between September 18, 2015, and the end of the Claim Period, become a registered owner of, or, in the case of Non-Volkswagen Dealers, hold title to or hold by bill of sale dated after September 18, 2015, but before the end of the Claims Period, an Eligible Vehicle in the United States or its territories.
After that, it references the eligible vehicle spiel in the settlement docs, but the intention is fairly clear. I believe this is just a small blurb to allow non-VW dealers to get a piece of the pie and to prevent VM dealers from participating in the settlement.

Oddly enough, I recently tried to get a TDI from my local CarMax, but they wouldn't sell it to me based on the fact that there was a "recall" which doesn't make any sense to not sell it as their are often recalls. My suspicion is that they just wanted to sell it back themselves and get paid a hefty chunk from VW... I'm sure that it's well more than what they could have gotten by selling it themselves.
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Old July 28th, 2016, 13:06   #43
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At the dealer now. They took a jetta sport wagon on trade June 20.
Would I be considered an eligible owner if I buy it today?
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Old July 28th, 2016, 13:13   #44
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Are they a VW dealer? If no, no problem, you'd be an eligible owner and the car would be an eligible vehicle. If they are a VW dealer, I'd say you're probably OK, but see the discussion above. It isn't clear.
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Old July 28th, 2016, 14:42   #45
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The definition of Eligible Vehicle requires that the car be registered with the DMV (or local equivalent), or held by bill of sale by a non-VW dealer, "as of" 6/28/16. If "as of" means "on", as it usually does, that would mean that a car owned as inventory by a VW dealer on 6/28 would not be an Eligible Vehicle. There's no logical reason for this that I can see--a car traded in to a VW dealer after 6/28 and then sold is still eligible, as is one sold by the VW dealer before 6/28, and one owned and sold by a non-VW dealer on any date--but that's the meaning that best fits how the words are usually used.

However, "as of" can also be interpreted as "on or before" or "by". With that meaning, this part of the definition operates to exclude new TDIs that hadn't been sold (at all, ever) by 6/28. This is a less common reading of "as of", but the result makes much more sense.
The "as-of" impacts how much VW has to pay out. If the car was on the VW lot, and you took it off the lot for less than the buyback price, they are basically giving money away, or more to the point, the dealer may be inclined to cut sweetheart deals on the cars, thus making money off them, when the dealers are explicitly excluded from the settlement. The only way to prevent that is to blacklist cars on VW lots.
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