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Upgrades (non TDI Engine related) The place of handling, lighting and other upgrades that do not relate to the performance or economy of the TDI engine. In other words upgrades to your TDI that don't fit into TDI Fuel Economy & TDI Engine Enhancements.Please note the Performance Disclaimer

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Old February 17th, 2002, 07:58   #1
SVTWEB
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Default Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

OK Guys, I finally got around to getting all the research out of the way for the Traction Control Retro-fit. The only problem is the lack of 2002's in the salvage yard. I did however find a 2001 Jetta w/3128 miles that suffered from a severe physics problem. (To objects trying to occupy the same space at the same time)

I have the ABS/EDL/ASR hydro unit from that vehicle.

If you are located in the Baltimore/Metro area, and want to be the First kid on the block with Traction control in a US Spec Golf/Jetta drop me a line. (SVTWEB@yahoo.com)

The cost of THIS conversion will be fairly inexpensive. The only part you will need to buy new is the ASR switch and connector. All other details wil be discussed in email.
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Old February 17th, 2002, 10:43   #2
danix
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

If you get no other takers, let me know, I'm up in NY. I thought the hydro unit was the same on all cars according to dieselgeek though?
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Old February 17th, 2002, 11:53   #3
SVTWEB
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

The Hydri unit is the only difference between the cars With ASR and the cars without.

The ASR/EDL hydro Unit's have an extra pair of solinoid valves to give it the capabilities of ASR.

The problem that I have is 2002 Vehicles use te Mk. 60 ABS/EDL/ASR unit, the 2001 and earlier use the Mk. 20......
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Old February 17th, 2002, 22:29   #4
Michael Moore
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

Eric:

What do you think the cost of the correct hydro unit for a 2002 would be? I'm going back to Europe later this week, if the cost is not too high, I'll buy the correct part and try fitting it onto my 2002 Golf TDI. We could collaberate together, doing the two projects at the same time, and see if there is any difference between the two hydro units.

Are there any other parts required, other than the ASR switch and connector?

What added functionality does ASR give the car? I presume it is 'anti slip regulation', however, how exactly does it work? Is it different than ESP? Could ESP be refitted to a 2002 North American Golf TDI?

Michael

[ February 17, 2002, 22:32: Message edited by: Michael Moore ]
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Old February 18th, 2002, 19:03   #5
tongsli
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

Eric told me it's about $900.00 for a new hydro unit for the ASR feature. That's why he's been checking the salvage yards.

This is a GREAT find!! Although there is no gaurantee, he got this part for a GREAT price. Hopefully, someone will try it.

L

Dan,

the hydro unit sits below your airbox. You should make sure the 99.5 Jetta doesn't have a different unit. SVTWEB's is from a 2001.

[ February 18, 2002, 19:05: Message edited by: tongsli ]
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Old February 19th, 2002, 07:33   #6
SVTWEB
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Moore:
Eric:

What do you think the cost of the correct hydro unit for a 2002 would be?

*$495 for the Module and $450 for the Hydro Unit.

Are there any other parts required, other than the ASR switch and connector?

*None that I have found with my research.

What added functionality does ASR give the car?

*Better acceleration habbits in slippery conditions.

I presume it is 'anti slip regulation', however, how exactly does it work?

*It uses the front brakes to slow down the wheel that is turning faster, thereby transfering tourque to the wheel that is not spinning as fast.

Is it different than ESP?

*Yes, ESP uses all 4 brakes to correct for mild over/under steer.

Could ESP be refitted to a 2002 North American Golf TDI?

*Anything can be retrofitted, but ESP requires extensive wiring modifications and replacement of most of the brake system. I would not see this as a cost effective project.

Michael
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
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Old February 19th, 2002, 19:44   #7
Michael Moore
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Hi Eric:

Thanks very much for the answers and the explanation, it is greatly appreciated. Thanks also for the help with the steering wheel removal.

In the Bentley manual, there is some discussion of ABS/EDL, ABS/EDL/ASR, and plain old ABS. Do you know why some cars would have EDL but not ASR? Is the EDL a feature that is limited to only standard transmissions?

Some members have discussed in other threads use of a Quaife automatic torque biasing differential . Would installation of the ASR component that you are proposing offer any advantages that the Quaife ATB differential would not? Lastly, do you know if the Quaife unit would work in a TDI with an automatic transmission?
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Old February 19th, 2002, 20:58   #8
SVTWEB
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Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Moore:


In the Bentley manual, there is some discussion of ABS/EDL, ABS/EDL/ASR, and plain old ABS. Do you know why some cars would have EDL but not ASR?

*That's a new one on me. As far as I know EDL (electronic differential lock) and ASR (Automatic Spin Regulation) go hand and hand. My guess would be that ASR take into account the speed of the front wheels compared to that of the rears.

Is the EDL a feature that is limited to only standard transmissions?

*Unknown...

Some members have discussed in other threads use of a Quaife automatic torque biasing differential . Would installation of the ASR component that you are proposing offer any advantages that the Quaife ATB differential would not?

*Having used the quaife in several of my race cars, I find that NOTHING! electronic can match the capabilities of putting power down to both driving wheels like a quiafe. What ASR would add is the ability to control the spin of the wheels in less than optimum conditions.

Lastly, do you know if the Quaife unit would work in a TDI with an automatic transmission?

*Not a clue... I've only had expirence with them in manuals.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[ February 19, 2002, 20:59: Message edited by: SVTWEB ]
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Old February 20th, 2002, 06:03   #9
PTC
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

EDL here in Europe can (could, maybe?) be ordered separately of ASR. In fact, it is standard equipment on some engines with higher output and Comfortline (and some other) equipment package.
AFAIK EDL should not be limited to cars with manual trannys.

[ February 20, 2002, 06:04: Message edited by: PTC ]
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Old February 25th, 2002, 09:25   #10
Michael Moore
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

I visited my dealer in Germany today and discussed the possibility of modifying a Golf that has ABS only to provide both ABS and ASR capability.

The dealer was not entirely sure about whether or not this could be done (his comment was: “Why didn’t you just order the car the way you wanted it?”, which I thought was kind of funny – I guess he doesn’t know how things work with VW of NA).

He did suggest, however, that he thought the ABS only cars just came with components number 2 and 3, shown at the top of the diagram, and if ASR capability was wanted, that it would be necessary to purchase and install component 11, at the bottom of the diagram, along with the associated mounting hardware and tubes (items 12 to 17), plus, of course, the ASR override switch that goes on the dashboard.

Can anyone comment on this? Does it sound correct? Is he way off base?

Parts Diagram - Brake Related Components
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Old February 25th, 2002, 13:10   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by DavinATL:
Have you guys thought yet about coding of the engine and ABS ECUs?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not an issue. The ABS system runs separate from the Engine ECU, there is no additional coding needed when switching modules. There is a data link between the 2 modules but they pass information without specific module coding.
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Old February 25th, 2002, 13:51   #12
ihavelotsoftoys
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Default Re: Traction Control(ASR) Need a Ginnie pig

I have considered doing the same when my ABS computer went to lunch.
The dealer covered the new computer under warranty, but I did get prices for ABS units in the wrecking yard. Couple hundred bucks for the computer and valve unit.
If you want to try, I am game. I got a VAG-COM so recodeing the modules isn't a problem. However, I think the ECM also needs some re-coding. I taked to Ewe at Ross Tech, he seems to agree.
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Old February 26th, 2002, 00:19   #13
SVTWEB
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The picture doesn't always tell the tale. And the dealer is totally clueless. Both units appear to be the same, the difference is the ASR/EDL unit has 2 more solinoid valves. THe electronics are also different, BUT the wiring harness's are the same. The only difference is the Hydro Unit and the Electronics. The Unit I have Is the entire assy of electronics and Hydro Unit.
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Old February 26th, 2002, 00:48   #14
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Have you guys thought yet about coding of the engine and ABS ECUs?

Cool project... keep up the euro-upgrade ideas! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

-davin
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Old February 26th, 2002, 19:45   #15
danix
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I just paid SVTWEB for this, so I'm the guinea pig. Oink, oink.
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