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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old September 30th, 2011, 21:35   #46
prettytdi
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Hello All,

Newbie to posting but have been following the TDICLUB Forums for years. Lots of great info from knowledgable people.

I drive an 09' Jetta TDI sedan, manual 6 speed with 106K miles. 90% highway from NJ to PA, 70 - 80 MPH / 40 MPG. FUCHS Titan VW507 oil at 5K intervals religiously.

Recently had ENGINE warning lamp. Ross VAG-COM diagnostic code

008213 - Intake Manifold Position Sensor (Bank 1): Implausible Sensor

Shortly afterwards (roughly 200 miles) flashing GLOW PLUG warning lamp. Ross VAG-COM code

000175 - Actuator Module for Turbocharger 1: Stuck

Limp turbo symptoms - no acceleration and loss of torque up hills. For several days, able to turn off the ignition while the car was rolling, restart and turbo boost returned (actuator obviously working). After these days of partial functionality, turbo would not come back to life. Felt as if there was boost for 1st 30 - 50 seconds, until the warning lamp started to flash and boost dropped to nothing. I'm guessing the ECU shut the turbo down due to no actuator feedback (emphasis on guessing). I've seen some references in other posts to a N75 module, but don't know if that's a position feedback sensor.

Car is curently at a performance shop in MD. After 2 days of diagnostics and testing, just received word that the entire intake manifold and turbo assemblies must be replaced .

These guys did a balancer shaft drive replacement on my 05' Passat TDI B5 (swapped chain drive with new gear design). I trust they know what they're doing, but I'm having a hard time accepting a $3K tab for a bad actuator. Trying to gather more info as to root cause of the problem, wondering if the faults are related somehow, apprehensive that this will happen again next year. I'm feeling like VW has thoughtfully planned a new revenue stream with their hand my my pocket (as well as several others as I read this thread).

I'll try to post as I receive more info.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 06:39   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdiatlast View Post
Harv, how many turbo actuator failures have you seen in the 2009-10 cars? Are you claiming this is a trend?

I respect your rampage against VW, but I'm wondering if your inflammatory post here ("...these CR TDIs will overall end up being a ...POS money pit...") is a bit out of line? Go back to decaf for a bit, calm down, and maybe we can continue to benefit from your knowledge...
With prettytdi's same failure? I'm just a sayin........................ I've got this sick arse feeling in my stomach that we ain't seen a nutin' yet, hello? Later!
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Old October 1st, 2011, 07:08   #48
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Originally Posted by prettytdi View Post
Hello All,

Newbie to posting but have been following the TDICLUB Forums for years. Lots of great info from knowledgable people.

I drive an 09' Jetta TDI sedan, manual 6 speed with 106K miles. 90% highway from NJ to PA, 70 - 80 MPH / 40 MPG. FUCHS Titan VW507 oil at 5K intervals religiously.

Recently had ENGINE warning lamp. Ross VAG-COM diagnostic code

008213 - Intake Manifold Position Sensor (Bank 1): Implausible Sensor

Shortly afterwards (roughly 200 miles) flashing GLOW PLUG warning lamp. Ross VAG-COM code

000175 - Actuator Module for Turbocharger 1: Stuck

Limp turbo symptoms - no acceleration and loss of torque up hills. For several days, able to turn off the ignition while the car was rolling, restart and turbo boost returned (actuator obviously working). After these days of partial functionality, turbo would not come back to life. Felt as if there was boost for 1st 30 - 50 seconds, until the warning lamp started to flash and boost dropped to nothing. I'm guessing the ECU shut the turbo down due to no actuator feedback (emphasis on guessing). I've seen some references in other posts to a N75 module, but don't know if that's a position feedback sensor.

Car is curently at a performance shop in MD. After 2 days of diagnostics and testing, just received word that the entire intake manifold and turbo assemblies must be replaced .

These guys did a balancer shaft drive replacement on my 05' Passat TDI B5 (swapped chain drive with new gear design). I trust they know what they're doing, but I'm having a hard time accepting a $3K tab for a bad actuator. Trying to gather more info as to root cause of the problem, wondering if the faults are related somehow, apprehensive that this will happen again next year. I'm feeling like VW has thoughtfully planned a new revenue stream with their hand my my pocket (as well as several others as I read this thread).

I'll try to post as I receive more info.
Your shop may be right on with their diagnosis but to help you with peace of mind, I suggest making a visit to your shop and nicely ask them to hook up a vacuum pump to the turbo actuator. The actuator should hold vacuum. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the turbo needs to be replaced due to not being able to source the actuator by itself. If it does hold vacuum, have them hook up VCDS or similar. Turn ignition on without starting the vehicle, go to measuring block 120. The fourth field to the right will give a voltage reading of say, 3.XX volts. Have them slowly pump the vacuum pump hooked up to the acutator and this voltage should drop to a low of .076 volts with the vacuum guage reading somewhere between 16 to 18 inches of vacuum and the actuator arm is at its stop. This will verify that the G581 actuator position sensor is operating as designed. If both of these tests show good, have them perform an output test to verify mechanical operation of the N75 valve. BTW, with the vehicle running at idle and the vacuum line re-connected, the voltage reading from MB 120 should read .076 volts due to the turbo vanes being in the closed position to enable the virtual lag free, higher boost for lower RPM and take-off operation. Please let us know your outcome and good luck! Later!
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Old October 1st, 2011, 07:36   #49
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Harv, I will learn in time to trust your "sick arse feeling"...but really...how many turbo actuator failures have been confirmed by you?...just askin'...
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2015 Nissan LeafS ($.02/mile fuel cost)
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Old October 1st, 2011, 07:53   #50
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I realize that 106k is high for a 2009, but first the HPFP and now we have to worry about the turbocharger.

This sucks for a car that I really enjoy driving.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 07:54   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prettytdi View Post
Hello All,

Newbie to posting but have been following the TDICLUB Forums for years. Lots of great info from knowledgable people.

I drive an 09' Jetta TDI sedan, manual 6 speed with 106K miles. 90% highway from NJ to PA, 70 - 80 MPH / 40 MPG. FUCHS Titan VW507 oil at 5K intervals religiously.

Recently had ENGINE warning lamp. Ross VAG-COM diagnostic code

008213 - Intake Manifold Position Sensor (Bank 1): Implausible Sensor

Shortly afterwards (roughly 200 miles) flashing GLOW PLUG warning lamp. Ross VAG-COM code

000175 - Actuator Module for Turbocharger 1: Stuck

Limp turbo symptoms - no acceleration and loss of torque up hills. For several days, able to turn off the ignition while the car was rolling, restart and turbo boost returned (actuator obviously working). After these days of partial functionality, turbo would not come back to life. Felt as if there was boost for 1st 30 - 50 seconds, until the warning lamp started to flash and boost dropped to nothing. I'm guessing the ECU shut the turbo down due to no actuator feedback (emphasis on guessing). I've seen some references in other posts to a N75 module, but don't know if that's a position feedback sensor.

Car is curently at a performance shop in MD. After 2 days of diagnostics and testing, just received word that the entire intake manifold and turbo assemblies must be replaced .

These guys did a balancer shaft drive replacement on my 05' Passat TDI B5 (swapped chain drive with new gear design). I trust they know what they're doing, but I'm having a hard time accepting a $3K tab for a bad actuator. Trying to gather more info as to root cause of the problem, wondering if the faults are related somehow, apprehensive that this will happen again next year. I'm feeling like VW has thoughtfully planned a new revenue stream with their hand my my pocket (as well as several others as I read this thread).

I'll try to post as I receive more info
Why intake manifold has to replace? Also O/C at every 10k.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 08:11   #52
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I assume he meant exhaust manifold. It's an integrated unit.

Let's be realistic. Turbos are wear items. Depending on how the car is driven and maintained, they can last a long time or a short time. Variable vane turbos in general seem to be more prone to failure than wastegate turbos. And they're not rebuildable by most manufacturers. Garrett refuses to rebuild them, as does, AFAIK, Borg-Warner. The worst TDI for early turbo failure seems to be the BEW. The best is the ALH, followed by the B5.5 Passat. FWIW, the BEW turbo is a Borg-Warner. The ALH and B5.5 are Garretts. Just sayin'.

We've got '09 and later replacement turbos on order, but they won't be here for quite some time. And it was long enough ago that we ordered them that I forget the pricing. I do recall the dealer retail on one of these is about $1,600.

I think it's important to keep this in perspective. TDIs deliver an exceptional combination of performance, economy, and clean emissions. They're complex, things are going to fail, and they're not going to be cheap. If you want inexpensive, buy a Kia.

This isn't limited to the new cars. Ask someone who has to shell out $1,100 for a new ALH injection pump, or several hundred dollars to replace a rusted exhaust. Or a dual mass flywheel and clutch.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 08:38   #53
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Originally Posted by tdiatlast View Post
Harv, I will learn in time to trust your "sick arse feeling"...but really...how many turbo actuator failures have been confirmed by you?...just askin'...
Only one by me personally to date. Then we have the potential victims in this thread. I already answered your question of why I think these CRs will be an eventual, POS money pit with undeniable facts and this turbo actuator just adds to that "roll your eyes" momentum. Now, if you want to ask me how many BRM turbo actuator issues I have personally confirmed, the answer is I actually lost count due to the sheer numbers. This is why I interjected with my "sick arse feeling that we ain't seen nuttin yet" comment (example: soft touch). Not that I claim to be 100% spot on in each and every one of my assumptions but, I generally do not make such comments for no reason or to just ruffle feathers. Admittedly, I have a crude edge in the way I present things and I do this to make points stick as wittnessed by your seemingly disgust of my comments. Otherwise, the possibility these important points going through one ear and out the other are greater. BTW, I would support a total boycott of these CR TDIs.

Would you rather I write a long and possibly boring explanation to each and every, what you assume to be inflammatory comments? Do I have a vendetta against VWAG/VOA? You bet your sweet bippie I do and this vendetta is 100% the result of their doings/actions over the years and I will expose such until my last breath until I sense the right thing is being done, period! Any more questions? Later!
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Old October 1st, 2011, 08:57   #54
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
I assume he meant exhaust manifold. It's an integrated unit.

Let's be realistic. Turbos are wear items. Depending on how the car is driven and maintained, they can last a long time or a short time. Variable vane turbos in general seem to be more prone to failure than wastegate turbos. And they're not rebuildable by most manufacturers. Garrett refuses to rebuild them, as does, AFAIK, Borg-Warner. The worst TDI for early turbo failure seems to be the BEW. The best is the ALH, followed by the B5.5 Passat. FWIW, the BEW turbo is a Borg-Warner. The ALH and B5.5 are Garretts. Just sayin'.

We've got '09 and later replacement turbos on order, but they won't be here for quite some time. And it was long enough ago that we ordered them that I forget the pricing. I do recall the dealer retail on one of these is about $1,600.

I think it's important to keep this in perspective. TDIs deliver an exceptional combination of performance, economy, and clean emissions. They're complex, things are going to fail, and they're not going to be cheap. If you want inexpensive, buy a Kia.

This isn't limited to the new cars. Ask someone who has to shell out $1,100 for a new ALH injection pump, or several hundred dollars to replace a rusted exhaust. Or a dual mass flywheel and clutch.
Peter, I do agree with most of what you are saying. As I have specified many times, the quirky issues of all the pre-CR TDIs are not kisses of death monetarily, so to speak. However, if this CR TDI HPFP thing gets shunned by the NHTSA or VW ends up totally sweeping this under under the rug, the "you ain't seen nuttin yet" slogan will absolutely be the kiss of death and yes, a fricken Kia would be a much better alternative, no poop! Later!
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Old October 1st, 2011, 10:11   #55
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Originally Posted by Harvieux View Post
Only one by me personally to date. Then we have the potential victims in this thread. I already answered your question of why I think these CRs will be an eventual, POS money pit with undeniable facts and this turbo actuator just adds to that "roll your eyes" momentum. Now, if you want to ask me how many BRM turbo actuator issues I have personally confirmed, the answer is I actually lost count due to the sheer numbers. This is why I interjected with my "sick arse feeling that we ain't seen nuttin yet" comment (example: soft touch). Not that I claim to be 100% spot on in each and every one of my assumptions but, I generally do not make such comments for no reason or to just ruffle feathers. Admittedly, I have a crude edge in the way I present things and I do this to make points stick as wittnessed by your seemingly disgust of my comments. Otherwise, the possibility these important points going through one ear and out the other are greater. BTW, I would support a total boycott of theseCR TDIs.

Would you rather I write a long and possibly boring explanation to each and every, what you assume to be inflammatory comments? Do I have a vendetta against VWAG/VOA? You bet your sweet bippie I do and this vendetta is 100% the result of their doings/actions over the years and I will expose such until my last breath until I sense the right thing is being done, period! Any more questions? Later!
Your first line answered my question. Thanks. I feel no disgust toward your learned posts, and I respect your accumulated distrust of VWoA. I'm just trying to keep everything in perspective.

As for "inflammatory comments"...others can decide that.
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2015 Nissan LeafS ($.02/mile fuel cost)
2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid Limited (39.5mpg C/H)
2013 Ford CMax Hybrid (39.2mpg C/H)
2017 Ford Energi Titanium, purchased 12/15/18

Last edited by tdiatlast; October 1st, 2011 at 10:17.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:04   #56
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Originally Posted by tdiatlast View Post
Your first line answered my question. Thanks. I feel no disgust toward your learned posts, and I respect your accumulated distrust of VWoA. I'm just trying to keep everything in perspective.

As for "inflammatory comments"...others can decide that.
As you most likely know, a good majority of these CR TDIs are still under the factory warranty and therefore it's a bit early to have them showing up at my shop in large numbers for general repairs. A better question may be how many of these turbos have been replaced under warranty to date that had this very same issue.

By golly, we don't even have a clear answer or publication as to whether or not these turbos are covered under the 5/60 or not.

Though the CR turbos are different than the BRM turbos, it seems they may be following the same fate. You would think such known issues would have some improvements on the next go around hence my reference to the soft touch comment above as an example of this ongoing trend. I'm just saying! Later!
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Old October 1st, 2011, 11:09   #57
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Originally Posted by Harvieux View Post
As you most likely know, a good majority of these CR TDIs are still under the factory warranty and therefore it's a bit early to have them showing up at my shop in large numbers for general repairs. A better question may be how many of these turbos have been replaced under warranty to date that had this very same issue.
By golly, we don't even have a clear answer or publication as to whether or not these turbos are covered under the 5/60 or not.
Though the CR turbos are different than the BRM turbos, it seems they may be following the same fate. You would think such known issues would have some improvements on the next go around hence my reference to the soft touch comment above as an example of this ongoing trend. I'm just saying! Later!
BTW, Not to beat a dead horse but, you already deemed some of my comments as inflammatory so, I see no need in asking others because I know many would answer, abso fricken lutely! Hehehe! Later!
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Old October 1st, 2011, 16:12   #58
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Originally Posted by Harvieux View Post
Your shop may be right on with their diagnosis but to help you with peace of mind, I suggest making a visit to your shop and nicely ask them to hook up a vacuum pump to the turbo actuator. The actuator should hold vacuum. If it doesn't hold vacuum, the turbo needs to be replaced due to not being able to source the actuator by itself. If it does hold vacuum, have them hook up VCDS or similar. Turn ignition on without starting the vehicle, go to measuring block 120. The fourth field to the right will give a voltage reading of say, 3.XX volts. Have them slowly pump the vacuum pump hooked up to the acutator and this voltage should drop to a low of .076 volts with the vacuum guage reading somewhere between 16 to 18 inches of vacuum and the actuator arm is at its stop. This will verify that the G581 actuator position sensor is operating as designed. If both of these tests show good, have them perform an output test to verify mechanical operation of the N75 valve. BTW, with the vehicle running at idle and the vacuum line re-connected, the voltage reading from MB 120 should read .076 volts due to the turbo vanes being in the closed position to enable the virtual lag free, higher boost for lower RPM and take-off operation. Please let us know your outcome and good luck! Later!
Harvieux,

Thanks for the tip!

I did some more dilligence last night and found this VW service training manual for the 09' CR engine.

http://www.dsd.go.th/itrain/km/kboc/...il_BIN5_UL.pdf

There's a reference to the N75 valve and pictures on page 47. The mechanic I'm working with has been pretty cool, so I don't think he'll have any issue doing this extra diagnostic.

I'll let you know how I make out.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 17:09   #59
prettytdi
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Originally Posted by IndigoBlueWagon View Post
I assume he meant exhaust manifold. It's an integrated unit.

Let's be realistic. Turbos are wear items. Depending on how the car is driven and maintained, they can last a long time or a short time. Variable vane turbos in general seem to be more prone to failure than wastegate turbos. And they're not rebuildable by most manufacturers. Garrett refuses to rebuild them, as does, AFAIK, Borg-Warner. The worst TDI for early turbo failure seems to be the BEW. The best is the ALH, followed by the B5.5 Passat. FWIW, the BEW turbo is a Borg-Warner. The ALH and B5.5 are Garretts. Just sayin'.

We've got '09 and later replacement turbos on order, but they won't be here for quite some time. And it was long enough ago that we ordered them that I forget the pricing. I do recall the dealer retail on one of these is about $1,600.

I think it's important to keep this in perspective. TDIs deliver an exceptional combination of performance, economy, and clean emissions. They're complex, things are going to fail, and they're not going to be cheap. If you want inexpensive, buy a Kia.

This isn't limited to the new cars. Ask someone who has to shell out $1,100 for a new ALH injection pump, or several hundred dollars to replace a rusted exhaust. Or a dual mass flywheel and clutch.
IndigoBlue,

The first engine fault I encountered was

008213 - Intake Manifold Flap Position Sensor (Bank 1): Implausible Signal (Ross VCDS description)

P2015 Intake Manifold Runner Position Sensor/Switch Circuit
Performance Static (VW shop diagnostic description)

This seeems to point to a problem with the intake flap position sensor G336 which is an integral part of the stepper motor actuator V157. I've been told that these components are all part of the intake manifold which must be replaced as an assembly.

I thought it unusual that both the flap fault and the turbo fault happened at nearly the same time. Engine Control Module would be the common link - and alot cheaper fix.

Regarding the 10K interval for oil, I've owned several turbo vehicles (88' SAAB was a blast to drive) and am very concious of the fact that the turbo bearings are oil cooled. That combined with the CR's elaborate (and expensive) oil sensitive exhaust system, my extended mileage, speeds and generally heavy foot, all have motivated me to do the O/C every 5K miles.

And I agree that this new breed of TDI is a great car. I've been doing a long commute for the last 20 years and never enjoyed a better combination of performance, comfort and fuel economy. But, in my humble opinion, that doesn't excuse a design philosophy that requires a major assembly replacement for a sensor failure (man - let go of my arm). If my customers had to replace an entire robot because of a failed proximity switch, I'd be out of business real quick.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 17:27   #60
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Thanks for the clarification. I agree it is odd that both failed simultaneously. But it also sounds like you may not yet know the exact nature of the problem. And I wasn't in any way implying you haven't maintained your car: I was simply commenting that turbo life can be in part affected by maintenance intervals.

I will be the first to admit there's a lot about the common rail TDIs that I don't know. I have enough trouble staying on top of how the EGR system works (and fails) on BEW and BRM cars. Keep in mind that what dealers see as a complete assembly can sometimes be purchased in components. However, that may be more difficult in a car this new.

Good luck in tracking this down and finding out what actually happened. Thanks for keeping us informed.
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