Parasitic Draw - must doing something wrong!

I have a 2006 TDI that goes dead if it sits several days. It's no problem just overnight. Sometimes it's ok after a couple days and it seems the time varies to kill it completely.

That said, I've tried to track down the problem. Using my multimeter and disconnecting a cable to install to meter inline, it appears the draw is about up to 500 milliamps. I've flipped the door latch and wait for things to shut down. It seems there's no consistency in what is pulling what. For example, the radio fuse under the hood might drop it 100 milliamps. A couple on the dash, like the sunroof control module and the vehicle electrical control system module seem to drop it anywhere from another hundred to nothing. I know things go to sleep and they also seem to wake up when reinserting fuses but that isn't my complete problem...I don't think. I can pull all the fuses that seem to make a difference and can't ever get it below a 240 amp draw.

I've tried to measure draw at the fuses without removing them. It seems the draw there is very minimal, but again, its the radio, and the modules mentioned above....very small amounts.

Is there a third fuse box? I have VCDS - is that helpful for this stuff?
Thoughts? Ideas?

Thanks.

How old is the battery? 500mA? if you have a 800CCA battery, they typically are about 35-40 Amp Hours, to crank your car you need at least 11.9 volts usually. At that voltage your 35~amp hour battery is about at 60-70%. So lets do the math. 0.5 amp draw over 48 hours =24 amps. Defiantly enough to drain the battery to where it might start the car (MAYBE) i would say that this is defiantly a significant draw over time. Math my vary from battery to battery but the point is the same. 4 days at .5 amps draw will drain a car battery no problem. I have this issue but its from some relays and some other stuff that i know draws amps, my car sits for months on end. I put a 100 amp relay on a switch on my dash so i can turn off and on the Negative terminal, problem solved for me. its a band aid for you though. I would recommend watching some you tube videos on how to track this down. i cant remember how and had to step by step while watching it to figure it out but its not difficult after you get the electrical mumbo jumbo lol

This might help-
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/TSB_27_08_04_Matrix.pdf

Mongler98 said:

How old is the battery? 500mA? if you have a 800CCA battery, they typically are about 35-40 Amp Hours, to crank your car you need at least 11.9 volts usually. At that voltage your 35~amp hour battery is about at 60-70%. So lets do the math. 0.5 amp draw over 48 hours =24 amps. Defiantly enough to drain the battery to where it might start the car (MAYBE) i would say that this is defiantly a significant draw over time. Math my vary from battery to battery but the point is the same. 4 days at .5 amps draw will drain a car battery no problem. I have this issue but its from some relays and some other stuff that i know draws amps, my car sits for months on end. I put a 100 amp relay on a switch on my dash so i can turn off and on the Negative terminal, problem solved for me. its a band aid for you though. I would recommend watching some you tube videos on how to track this down. i cant remember how and had to step by step while watching it to figure it out but its not difficult after you get the electrical mumbo jumbo lol

Click to expand...

It's a somewhat loose standard that up to 50 milliamps is ok. I'm several times that. Not to sound like a crank but I've tracked down several draw problems over time. This one has me stumped. Pulling fuses should eliminate it...and it does partially. Only partially.

Thanks for the thoughts.

BobnOH said:

This might help-
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/TSB_27_08_04_Matrix.pdf

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm going to have to get a better understanding of what that consumption matrix means, though. I'm just lost how there seems to be draw someplace that isn't running through fuses. Is that even possible?

Mongler98 said:

How old is the battery? 500mA? if you have a 800CCA battery, they typically are about 35-40 Amp Hours, to crank your car you need at least 11.9 volts usually. At that voltage your 35~amp hour battery is about at 60-70%. So lets do the math. 0.5 amp draw over 48 hours =24 amps. Defiantly enough to drain the battery to where it might start the car (MAYBE) i would say that this is defiantly a significant draw over time. Math my vary from battery to battery but the point is the same. 4 days at .5 amps draw will drain a car battery no problem. I have this issue but its from some relays and some other stuff that i know draws amps, my car sits for months on end. I put a 100 amp relay on a switch on my dash so i can turn off and on the Negative terminal, problem solved for me. its a band aid for you though. I would recommend watching some you tube videos on how to track this down. i cant remember how and had to step by step while watching it to figure it out but its not difficult after you get the electrical mumbo jumbo lol

Click to expand...

Battery is 2 years old and tests out fine. The draw after everything goes to sleep probably isn't half an amp, though...or as you pointed out, it probably wouldn't start in a couple days.

06 TDI? Known for wire harness insulation chaffing in the driver's door loom and the main loom under the battery. There is a mile long thread on this issue here somewhere if you search for it.

aja8888 said:

06 TDI? Known for wire harness insulation chaffing in the driver's door loom and the main loom under the battery. There is a mile long thread on this issue here somewhere if you search for it.

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Seems I recall seeing that now that you mention it. Here's something I noticed on VCDS - it's been there a while and now wondering if it's related. I've never had a single problem with it, thought.

Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN2.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 701 K
Component: Tuer-SG 024 2377
Coding: 0001269
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 3663429541CAC0F660-8062

1 Fault Found:
00932 - Electric Window Motor; Drivers Side (V147)
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent



Here's another 'fault' found.

013112 - Control Circuit for Glow Plug Controller 1
P3338 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 358700 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 07:47:21

Here's that thread I mentioned.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=239987

FletchMan said:

Thanks. I'm going to have to get a better understanding of what that consumption matrix means, though. I'm just lost how there seems to be draw someplace that isn't running through fuses. Is that even possible?

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There just referring to the diagrams at the bottom of the TSB.
Read it thru, it's not as hard as it first appears.

if it was the glow plugs, the battery would die in just a few hours or less.

Mongler98 said:

if it was the glow plugs, the battery would die in just a few hours or less.

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Why would the glow plugs be drawing anything with the engine off?

Ol'Rattler said:

Why would the glow plugs be drawing anything with the engine off?

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they would not. but if there is a leak, drain, whatever it can also be caused by a relay. in theory you could have a drain that way, relay sticks open. they dont get hot enough to burn out, DURR they see internal temps lol. glow plugs combined will draw almost as much as a starter motor, i think like 14 amps. maybe some draw less but i think 14 would be right. even if they drew 5 amps that makes the battery only good for 3 or 4 hours. running, there would be no issue what so ever. As i stated in my last post, you cant run enough power when running to overwhelm the alt unless you have MASSIVE sound system and spot lights. I draw well over 100 amps with my current set up and never had an issue with the OE 120 amp alt. one day it will die, maybe!

Mongler98 said:

they would not. but if there is a leak, drain, whatever it can also be caused by a relay. in theory you could have a drain that way, relay sticks open. they dont get hot enough to burn out, DURR they see internal temps lol. glow plugs combined will draw almost as much as a starter motor, i think like 14 amps. maybe some draw less but i think 14 would be right. even if they drew 5 amps that makes the battery only good for 3 or 4 hours. running, there would be no issue what so ever. As i stated in my last post, you cant run enough power when running to overwhelm the alt unless you have MASSIVE sound system and spot lights. I draw well over 100 amps with my current set up and never had an issue with the OE 120 amp alt. one day it will die, maybe!

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If the relay contacts are "open", where's the current draw??

aja8888 said:

If the relay contacts are "open", where's the current draw??

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I meant to say *stuck closed lol. depending on the relay, tuck open or closed can cause a draw, 3 way relays have 2 closed positions and when open into its nutral state or non operating state draws amps, like .5mA but this would not be the case. My mistake !

aja8888 said:

Here's that thread I mentioned.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=239987

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Looks like this might be a start to a fix. Earlier I got a P0670 - Glow Plug Module 1; Glow Plug Circuit: Electrical Malfunction. In reading about that I determined that many have had a similar problem with the wiring.

Here's what Oilhammer had to say about a potential problem - "On the early A5s, the glow plug wiring goes through a connector behind the left (driver's side) headlamp that sits in a little plastic holder. That plastic holder can hold water if debris gets in there, and over time cause the 4 pin connector to corrode and allow the glow plugs to get a poor connection."

Is there any chance that this is the same problem or in the same location or are these two different things completely?

Thanks, all.

I have a similar problem with my 03 gasser Passat. it has a brand new battery (about 6 months old now) but still refuses to start when the weather gets cold. I'm blaming the Lomax the po put in. Does anyone know how to disconnect that?

Sorry, should have been Lojack

After reading through that entire thread, I'm less optimistic that this is my problem. I don't really have any of the same symptoms most have experienced - such as the stumbling motor, flashing glow plug light or any of that. I'm just getting a current draw at rest. I'm still going to check out the wiring as well as the glow plug wiring, though, and report back.

Thanks, again.

kjclow said:

I have a similar problem with my 03 gasser Passat. it has a brand new battery (about 6 months old now) but still refuses to start when the weather gets cold. I'm blaming the Lomax the po put in. Does anyone know how to disconnect that?

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Do you know it's a current draw at rest draining your battery? Figuring that out is a good and easy first step.

BobnOH said:

This might help-
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/TSB_27_08_04_Matrix.pdf

Click to expand...

Please pay attention to this part:

Tip:

Due to the state of the CAN Bus communications in the vehicle, it is no longer acceptable to pull each individual fuse one at a time to try and identify which circuit is consuming current. Removal/ reinsertion of a fuse while vehicle is in a sleep state may wake the bus of the vehicle, and invalidate the test. Identifying "consuming" circuits must be done by measuring a voltage drop across fuse and aligning with the value in matrix located at end of this document.

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All power goes through the fuse panel next to the battery. A DVOM set to milivolts and check across every fuse. Connecting VCDS to diagnose adds a current draw. 500mA sounds like a couple control modules not going to sleep properly. Most likely one control module is not going to sleep and several others stay away waiting for that control module.

Jason

PS: TSB has been updated to 27-15-03

SilverGhost said:

Please pay attention to this part:

Tip:

Due to the state of the CAN Bus communications in the vehicle, it is no longer acceptable to pull each individual fuse one at a time to try and identify which circuit is consuming current. Removal/ reinsertion of a fuse while vehicle is in a sleep state may wake the bus of the vehicle, and invalidate the test. Identifying "consuming" circuits must be done by measuring a voltage drop across fuse and aligning with the value in matrix located at end of this document.

All power goes through the fuse panel next to the battery. A DVOM set to milivolts and check across every fuse. Connecting VCDS to diagnose adds a current draw. 500mA sounds like a couple control modules not going to sleep properly. Most likely one control module is not going to sleep and several others stay away waiting for that control module.

Jason

PS: TSB has been updated to 27-15-03

Click to expand...

I did note this on my own as pulling a fuse did nothing while reinserting it jumped up the draw. To combat this, I both tested all the fuses without pulling them (after plenty of time to let it go to sleep) and then pulled them one at a time without reinserting them - at least those drawing power using the first method.

A couple days ago I hooked up the trickle charger to the battery while still in the car. It pulls enough current that it's going to take a battery that was about 12.1V about 3 days to get back to 12.6V so the drain isn't much slower than a trickle charge.

I'm more perplexed after knowing all the power goes through the panel under the hood. I did leave the battery unhooked but jumpered to the cable overnight to give plenty of time to go to sleep. I'll put my multimeter in line and give it a go again tonight.

What (Edit: SilverGost) said is completely true. All the traditional methods for troubleshooting parasitic loss like you are trying will cause you to not have a good time. What you need to do is follow the instructions in the TSB.

Ol'Rattler said:

Completely true. All the traditional methods for troubleshooting parasitic loss will cause you to not have a good time.

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Especially coupled with a $20 multimeter that, for some reason, needs to come down below .500 amps to register without the overload signal. My car is still for sale by the way!

kjclow said:

I have a similar problem with my 03 gasser Passat. it has a brand new battery (about 6 months old now) but still refuses to start when the weather gets cold. I'm blaming the Lomax the po put in. Does anyone know how to disconnect that?

Click to expand...

You should petition the judge that ordered it put on your car.

FletchMan said:

Especially coupled with a $20 multimeter that, for some reason, needs to come down below .500 amps to register without the overload signal. My car is still for sale by the way!

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A real DVOM is not cheap. If you want to do your on troubleshooting you have to buy equipment suitable for the job and most importantly, understand the system you are working on and how to use the equipment.

I found this: http://www.searchautoparts.com/moto...ng-dvoms-abilities-vehicle-electrical-systems and thought it would be good reading for anybody, including me.

Ol'Rattler said:

A real DVOM is not cheap. If you want to do your on troubleshooting you have to buy equipment suitable for the job and most importantly, understand the system you are working on and how to use the equipment.
I found this: http://www.searchautoparts.com/moto...ng-dvoms-abilities-vehicle-electrical-systems and thought it would be good reading for anybody, including me.

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Good info - already picked up a couple things. At some point I may make that equipment investment but what I have works for now - with a little patience and being sure every other part of the setup is in order.

FletchMan said:

Do you know it's a current draw at rest draining your battery? Figuring that out is a good and easy first step.

Click to expand...

No and I can't really test it since the car is in South Bend, IN. I'm making an assumption since the mechanic can't find anything but whenever it turns cold, the battery (ies) does not have enough power to start the car. It has happened every year we've owned the car (6 years) and the Lojack system is the only thing that is unusual compared to anything else I've owned.

kjclow said:

No and I can't really test it since the car is in South Bend, IN. I'm making an assumption since the mechanic can't find anything but whenever it turns cold, the battery (ies) does not have enough power to start the car. It has happened every year we've owned the car (6 years) and the Lojack system is the only thing that is unusual compared to anything else I've owned.

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It sounds like you've mostly eliminated the battery since it's been a couple batteries with the same problem. You've mentioned a mechanic but without knowing what he knows nobody here will be able to tell you much. Even a poor to average mechanic can test parasitic drain. Get a new mechanic if he can't give you that indication that parasitic drain is definitely not the problem. As fat as that goes, you should be able to walk someone through some simple steps regarding that with a multi-meter.

If the car starts in warm weather just fine and won't in cold weather, there's a fair chance your battery is drawing just enough current in shutdown to create the problem as you'll need more cranking amps to start a cold motor than a warm one. Oddly, 6 years is a long time to deal with that condition, though.

I did a quick google of lowjack and parasitic drain. You wouldn't be the first person with this problem. Apparently it has it's own battery but once that battery goes, it drags on your car. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that it wouldn't be hard to disconnect power from lojack and see if that makes a difference.

Using the method outlined in the technical bulletin I was able to determine that my radio is pulling 100mA alone. It's an aftermarket radio but this is a new problem that's arisen recently - so it's not the typical canbus issue some of have. I have the right aftermarket harness to take care of that. I do notice that I get 2 fault codes for 'radio' when running VCDS. I do believe that's due to the aftermarket unit as I think I've always gotten those.

One weird finding was that the fuse box layout I was looking at didn't line up with anything I could find online. Frustrating. I have a couple other fuses that I'm not sure what they do pulling power...I think. The readings are jumping all over the place.

At one point I thought maybe this was a glow plug issue due to having the P3338 CEL code on. I pulled the front bumper off to see if the connector under the airbox was bad (found in another thread). I never could find what I thought I'd see. Maybe my 2006 is a later model as something about that was mentioned?


I did another VCDS scan...don't see anything unusual.

013112 - Control Circuit for Glow Plug Controller 1
P3338 - 000 - Electrical Malfunction


I also got this but I think it's due to having the battery disconnected and the steering wheel hasn't reset...correct?

1 Fault Found:
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
000 - -

Door harness can fail and cause parasitic drain on 06. Seen it 3 times. Open up the "accordion" and see if wires are broken.

Dont know how to tell you to diagnose though.