1.6 R4 CR TDI CAY* Thread

63owen63

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2015
Location
Istanbul / Turkey
TDI
6R 1.6 TDI / instagram : mehmetguliaytar
Hello all. I have been keeping abreast of all the latest developments hereabouts for ages and It seems to me that there has been no talk no action on VW's 1.6 tdi r4 cr cay engines since you guys have been making the most of at least 2 and more liters :_) And I guess now it is the time because I have been on the lookout for a suitable opportunity to share what we do hereabouts on those engines. Here in Turkey , due to the high taxes like special consumption tax and high fuel prices Pd engines have been rocking for years, but since the distribution of 1.6 R4 cay engines, a bunch of garages, mappers, tuner and user have been looking for a way to impower the 90-120 hp engines.(And I am sure some friends are working on it somewhere else on the face of the Earth :) )
And nowadays people have been showing tendency on CR more than PD now.
Here in Turkey,as some tuners, we have been working and rolling along on Cay engines and I guess we are getting down to some fine results.
Let's keep this thread up-to-date about every sort of issues and enhancements about Cay engines. I will be posting the works of us. Every comment by is welcomed.

The general introduction of the engine is as seen ;

Motor type: EA 189 /parts code prefix: 03L
inline four-cylinder (R4/I4) Turbocharged Direct Injection (TDI) turbodiesel; 1,598 cubic centimetres (97.5 cu in); bore x stroke: 79.5 by 80.5 millimetres (3.13 in × 3.17 in), stroke ratio: 0.99:1 - 'square engine', 399.5 cc per cylinder, compression ratio: 16.5:1
cylinder block & crankcase
grey cast iron; five main bearings, die-forged steel crankshaft
cylinder head & valvetrain
cast aluminium alloy; four valves per cylinder, 16 valves total, double overhead camshaft (DOHC)
Aspiration
turbocharger, intercooler, water-cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR)
fuel system & engine management
common rail (CR) direct injection (DI) with eight-nozzle output piezo element injectors, rail pressure up to 1,600 bars (23,210 psi), European EU5 emissions standard
And the versions on the roads are ;
55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 4,000 rpm; 195 newton metres (144 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYA (Polo and Fabia only)
55 kilowatts (75 PS; 74 bhp) @ 3,000-4,000 rpm; 225 newton metres (166 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-2,250 rpm — CAYE (Caddy only)
66 kilowatts (90 PS; 89 bhp) @ 4,200 rpm; 230 newton metres (170 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYB
75 kilowatts (102 PS; 101 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYD (Caddy only)
77 kilowatts (105 PS; 103 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-2,500 rpm — CAYC
81 kilowatts (110 PS; 109 bhp) @ 3,200 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 lbf·ft) @ 1,500-3,000 rpm — CRKB (Golf, Golf SportsVan)
85 kilowatts (116 PS; 114 bhp) @ 4,400 rpm; 250 newton metres (184 lbf·ft) @ 2,000-2,500 rpm — CEKA (Mexico only)



I'll be posting about my car hopefully in a few hours when my lessons are all over. Goodbye till then.
 
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hatemi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
Its overall not anything like Bosch. Stupid map axis in one bunch nowhere near the actual maps is the biggest annoyance if you want to go further and extend the values instead of bending the maps ;) Basic tunes are ok to do tough.
 

DT_Tuning

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Location
Shrewsbury, UK
TDI
Fabia VRS
Its overall not anything like Bosch. Stupid map axis in one bunch nowhere near the actual maps is the biggest annoyance if you want to go further and extend the values instead of bending the maps ;) Basic tunes are ok to do tough.
What I mean is it has a similar system of maps relating to fuel and a similar arrangement of boost maps, but of course it is different in many ways. The axis' are quite annoying, but follow the axis info in the damos and you should be good.
 

lewo

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Location
Turkey
TDI
AR Giu 1.6 jtdm2
Guys, this man has the fastest Polo 1.6 TDi with oem turbo in Turkey maybe in the world :)

Dont be late to post news bro ;)
 

DT_Tuning

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 22, 2016
Location
Shrewsbury, UK
TDI
Fabia VRS
I'm not sure what others are seeing, but we had a CAYD come in today in the form of an ex British gas van.

It had been previously limited to 114 km/h (~71 mph) so we had to increase the limiter just to get a baseline dyno run.

I don't know of any flash tools that will currently flash this ECU without first unlocking it in boot mode, but it actually isn't a terrible process.

At least it can be port flashed after being unlocked.

It seemed to be falling a bit short on the baseline with only 92hp and 172 lb/ft, but it left with 150hp and 243 lb/ft (the torque value on the dyno sheet is average torque, not peak). This is an otherwise standard Caddy with no other modifications outside of the software.
 

intaketommy

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Location
Europe
TDI
VW Polo PD130
These Continental injectors from these 1.6 TDI engines are really bad. I heard a lecture from these continental guys ... omg :eek:
 

struikie

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Location
Netherlands
TDI
BMW 335d E91
These Continental injectors from these 1.6 TDI engines are really bad. I heard a lecture from these continental guys ... omg :eek:
yep... I had to fit a new set after only 185000km...
tried an overhauled set but they were realy realy bad...

JW
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
I'm not sure what others are seeing, but we had a CAYD come in today in the form of an ex British gas van.

It had been previously limited to 114 km/h (~71 mph) so we had to increase the limiter just to get a baseline dyno run.

I don't know of any flash tools that will currently flash this ECU without first unlocking it in boot mode, but it actually isn't a terrible process.

At least it can be port flashed after being unlocked.

It seemed to be falling a bit short on the baseline with only 92hp and 172 lb/ft, but it left with 150hp and 243 lb/ft (the torque value on the dyno sheet is average torque, not peak). This is an otherwise standard Caddy with no other modifications outside of the software.
X17 flashes without opening these days, good for lazy people like myself lol
 

Piranha

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2003
Location
Malta (Europe)
TDI
golf 2000 Flash Red
Turbo upgrade options for CAYC 1.6tdi

Hi,

This will probably land me a divorse, so, here goes.

Thinking of getting some more power from the 1.6l tdi on my A1

The A1 has a slightly smaller turbo than what's available on the golf 6, so tuning is already a little limited.


Anyone knows what turbo upgrades are available for the cay 1.6tdi, and how much the stock internals will take?

Also, will the cr 140 and cr 170 turbos fit? I'd rather fo for a new stock big turbo than for a hybrid or mash up.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
CAYC 1.6 TDI belongs to the EA189 family, so there's no reason why parts from the 2.0 EA189 shouldn't fit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diesel_engines#2.0_R4_16v_TDI_CR_81-176kW

GTD1449VZ from CR184 CUNA engine would be excellent for spool and support 200 HP;
GTC1549VZ from CR170 (e.g. CAHA, CBBB, CEGA, CFGB) - one generation back but still good for ~200 HP, available for cheap now and PnP;
GTD1752VRK from BMW 190 HP 2.0d, >200 HP.

These would be my two choices.

If your car has a Borg Warner turbo and you want to stick to it, BV43D from 190 HP CNHA code TDI.

Let the divorce proceedings begin! :D
 
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Boyka

Veteran Member
Joined
May 28, 2013
Location
Galiza
TDI
Audi a4 avant 3.0 tdi Remap
Hi, would it be very difficult to adapt the vrk?
I think the manifold is not plug play.
Some intercooler update?
Best regards.
 
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ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
I'm fitting a VRK to a 1.6 this week, should be over 200hp. will post results ASAP
 

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
GTD1752VRK on tubular manifold:



 
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TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Great result, Ryan, BUT... this leaves much information out to be desired. I know there is an urgency to get promised results out quickly (but enough time to produce a snazzy 3000x2000 px advert?), but there is no necessary context of what was done.

AFAIK there is no 1.6 CR TDI with 138 HP stock, so one must assume this baseline is already modded? Or does this show an incredibly optimistic dyno that throws all results into question? I doubt it in light of recent discussions elsewhere, but without any context or info, we just don't know and this opens up the floodgates of speculation.

Then with the nearly 100 HP gain, presumably to showcase the GTD1752VRK turbo - what else were done?? Understandably you don't want to tip off every detail to maintain a competitive edge, but this fancy flyer doesn't tell anything of substance. Boost pressure? Lambda? EGT? EMP? Rail pressure increase? Different injectors? Inj duration? Smoke? Emissions compliance?

Edit: Please reduce the size of the image.
 
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ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
I'll get the image edited this morning . Not created by me, it was accompanied with a description for Facebook and I linked the wrong image, was meant to show the graph alone!.

Baseline was customers balls out '160hp' custom tune elsewhere. We see 105 stock with DPF Removal on these.
You know my dyno does not produce micky mouse results Dave, nor would I share them if it did!

Spec is GTD1752VRK on tubular manifold (optional Egr Port)
2.5" Downpipe and exhaust (room for DPF)
50% injectors
FMIC
Arp rod bolts (precaution)

Boost 2.1bar
EGT 820 max
AFR 16 (slight visible smoke at this)
Rail pressure 1750
Duration less than 138hp graph
SOI tweaked

Hope that clarifies everything and highlights how good this turbo is.

Version 1 of the file we produced had zero fault codes, perfect boost control and nothing else we tried improved figures so my in house tuner did good for his first big turbo PCR. We are still on single digit revision number but have tested a lot of new stuff on the files compared to any other 1.6 we have seen before.

None of the hardware required any alterations or adjustments throughout the job so my fabricator and mechanic have also done an outstanding job. Its not the most powerful car we have ever built but everyone here was excited about this project, the process has been so smooth I thought it was worth mentioning, thanks to all my team!
 

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
And speak to Dynodynamics about the ftlb thing, they got it wrong too
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
Thank Ry, like I said, I have no doubt of your personal integrity. It's just important to have whatever is necessary to disseminate and let prospective buyers make informed decisions.

I'm now all the more a fan of the GTD1752VKR and I look forward to someone going a step further and utilise the PWM electronic actuator instead of converting to vacuum.

I don't see any error on the part of Dyno Dynamics' expression of torque. The slash denotes a division when there's no division involved, but rather lbs x Ft or Ft x lbs
 
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turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Great work Ryan!! Beautiful power curve. Looks like a fantastic combo in a daily driver.
 

Yucca

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Finland
TDI
ALH 388bhp, Polo 6R 2.0TDI CR GTC1752VZ
Good work Ryan!

Hatemi made software for my CAYB, smoke free 188bhp. 1.8bar boost and 1800bar rail pressure.



Now i need bigger injectors or more RPMs.
 

hatemi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
I think we streached this one to the limit on the top end. Lucky we dont have autobahns here ?
EGT diagnistics still show low temps which makes me believe the temps on VCDS doea not show the actual temps on these. Duration is looong...


Lähetetty minun Moto G (4) laitteesta Tapatalkilla
 

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
175 was most we saw with 170CR turbo here. EGT was sometimes low, sometimes high.

I think duration calc is not so accurate also, I might fit Ktype into manifold when on dyno next week.

I will say the EGT must be less than 2.0 CR at this power, the Manifold has not turned purple on this one.
 

ryanp

Vendor
Joined
Jun 22, 2008
Location
Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
TDI
Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
Thank Ry, like I said, I have no doubt of your personal integrity. It's just important to have whatever is necessary to disseminate and let prospective buyers make informed decisions.

I'm now all the more a fan of the GTD1752VKR and I look forward to someone going a step further and utilise the PWM electronic actuator instead of converting to vacuum.

I don't see any error on the part of Dyno Dynamics' expression of torque. The slash denotes a division when there's no division involved, but rather lbs x Ft or Ft x lbs
I know what you mean but this is not the vendor section so was more of an informational post rather than an advertising campaign.

Initial fitment was to retain E actuator but it won't fit in any good orientation and would need to be swapped for CANBUS type anyway
 
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