VNT15 vs VNT17 vs S7

I believe my VNT15 is on the way out. It's been chipped with nozzles & RC2 for the last 100K miles so it has served me well.

I am fairly happy with the power, but wondering if I should upgrade to a vnt17 or Kerma's new S7.

Reliability is the first concern & I have a switchable chip so I figured I would run stage 3 if I got the upgraded turbo's. Talking with Peter from ID parts, he mentioned that the VNT15 has been revised over the older model I have and is plenty durable at the power levels I am looking for.

So is it worth the extra few hundred to upgade to the larger modes?

Thanks for any advice

Upgrading is a very slippery slope. Do we really think it is "only" a couple of hundred more. This is a good time to upgrade the clutch to a South Bend stage 2 endurance. While Sprint 520's are larger than stock, if you upgrade the turbo and not the nozzles - you will not get all the power the new turbo can deliver. Just saying, it is a slippery slope. I'm sliding down it myself. Have a fresh ported/polished head sitting in the garage, a spare long block, some spare injection pumps. All for my upgrade. It is a very slippery slope. I have no illusions about it. You should not either.

let me know which turbo you go with-- I have not figured it out for mysel, except I am going to a VNT for low end response.

I wasn't planning on swapping the injectors, but the clutch is also up for replacement in the not too distant future. Was going to go with a g60/vr6 set up.

If you're not planning on going that far and the VNT17 is cheap enough I'd go with it basing that on the S7 being more expensive.

Sort of off topic, but still kinda relevant: what advantages does the S7 offer over the VNT17, if any? Just curious.

My KP-39 is still running strong but I'm also looking at that S7 alternative as well as upgrading the SMIC.
I'm almost certain this thread's gonna spread so by around page 14 or 15 we should have quite a few user reviews on the S7

Do a quick search on the S7 turbo, there's quite a lot of threads about it kicking about. Apparently it spools as fast as the VNT17 but is good for more power but not as much as the 17/22. Only alteration is the lower boost pipe from the turbo, you need an adapter.

Sounds like a winner to me. I think the VNT17 requires an adapter too, though.

Yeh it does

The 17/22 would be the goto if my KP39 pooped tomorrow but it's as strong as ever since the EasyOff treatment
If I can get another 150K km from this turbo then enough feedback from the B/W-S7 camp will have been documented here by then to explore all the options. The Motorsports world has been invaded by the TDI so it's only a matter of (Darwinian) time before someone comes up with a hot setup for endurance racing.

I guess that was one of my original questions. The VNT17 is pretty reliable when run within it's designed operation range. I wouldn't be opposed to the S7 providing there wasn't additional lag and it was at least as durable as the VNT 17, but it may still be too early to tell.

For anyone looking to buy the S7

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=397811

Looks like he's not sure about his engine, only just fitted the stuff too, his threads are knocking about on here.

This forum has more information about the B/W-S7 than anywhere else on the internet...including B/W's website!?
Maybe Garrett will come out with a compound VNT turbo as a drop-in replacement

Hey TDI Guys !!!

Just wanted to say hi, I'm not much of a chat sort of guy, However I have a 2003 Golf TDi, Had it since new, now with 219,000 km It needed some upgrades !!!SO I went with Kerma Tdi, Nozzles, 3" exhaust (changed to 2.5 DP), Southbend Endurance stage 2 clutch (3 of them Don't ask) Kerma tune, SMIC, Upper and Lower IC piping, 3 Bar Map, Braided Oil Line, OMI Pipe, Started out with the VNT 17, Loved it pulled, pulled and pulled until after a service with my last mechanic, I started to hear a siren sound like a cop was coming, HUH? So after a lot to research I learnt it was must likely the turbo, so I purchased the Kerma S7. After install noticed the 3" j pipe was cracked probably causing the siren noise, compairing the VNT 17 to the S7 (haven't had the S7 long) however, so far with my current tune, the VNT 17 just seems to pull really hard in 3rd WOT, whereas the S7 seems just as hard but not really in sync with the revs, I don't know if that makes any sense! I'm not a mechanic. But one thing I know is that KermaTDI is legit, these guys Paul (RIP) Charlie, Chris HAVE been amazing with all my questions and concerns, always available even before breakfast at times, lol They go out of they're way to help!! I'm a loyal customer and I live in Canada so you know I have no connections to them what so ever, Feel free to respond if your looking for pics or parts like my vnt 17 (thinking about selling cheap)

Love the info on this site

I think from reading that the S7 is somewhere between the vnt15 and vnt17. Fast spool but, as mentioned above, doesn't "pull" as hard

Can anyone verify this?

I have the 17 and LOVE it

Lensdude_com said:

This forum has more information about the B/W-S7 than anywhere else on the internet...including B/W's website!?
Maybe Garrett will come out with a compound VNT turbo as a drop-in replacement

Click to expand...

That's because there is no such thing as an "S7". Its kerma's marking brilliance....

Its actually a borg warner BV43 IIRC.

IIRC it was BV39B. Some PD130s had it.

HogWrangler said:

I think from reading that the S7 is somewhere between the vnt15 and vnt17. Fast spool but, as mentioned above, doesn't "pull" as hard

Click to expand...

In my opinion from seeing and tuning all these turbos in action, this is correct.

john.jackson9213 said:

Upgrading is a very slippery slope. Do we really think it is "only" a couple of hundred more. This is a good time to upgrade the clutch to a South Bend stage 2 endurance. While Sprint 520's are larger than stock, if you upgrade the turbo and not the nozzles - you will not get all the power the new turbo can deliver. Just saying, it is a slippery slope. I'm sliding down it myself. Have a fresh ported/polished head sitting in the garage, a spare long block, some spare injection pumps. All for my upgrade. It is a very slippery slope. I have no illusions about it. You should not either.

let me know which turbo you go with-- I have not figured it out for mysel, except I am going to a VNT for low end response.

Click to expand...

These comments make real sense. If your goal is a dependable economical vehicle, it just doesn't make sense to upgrade to a bigger turbo. If you want more performance, I have heard that just the upgrade turbo won't make that much difference, and the cost of the parts to make it fit must be considered (?)

I have to buy a turbo. I could probably find used, but that could end up stranding me out in the middle of nowhere. For my purposes, a new Garret VNT-15 probably makes sense.
Some helpful advice from a well known vendor

[/url]GarretVNT17 by gs1100ghoot, on Flickr[/IMG]

Two questions:
1. I have heard that bigger nozzles and a tune will do more than the turbo alone. Is this true?
2. And if you are light-footed, or just highway cruising, will the nozzle/tune approach result in better FE (without any downtube/exhaust modification)?

I wound up using a GTC1549VZ turbo from Europe with Race 520 nozzles and a fresh tune from TDTuning. All in September 2015. Have to say this was and still is a great setup! Turbo spool is excellent, boost starts very low with excellent low end torque and smooth power all the way to red line. We had to cut back on the fuel to keep the VR6 clutch from slipping. MPG has not dropped off, EXCEPT when my foot causes an issue. Every day MPG is low/mid 40's. Best on the highway - 54.5 MPG for 1200 miles. Best of all, once I upgrade the clutch, there is more torque and horsepower to be had by just tweeking the tune for more boost and more fuel. No more parts required and I should hit 200 hp and 340 lb/ft of usable, smooth power.

dubStrom said:

These comments make real sense. If your goal is a dependable economical vehicle, it just doesn't make sense to upgrade to a bigger turbo. If you want more performance, I have heard that just the upgrade turbo won't make that much difference, and the cost of the parts to make it fit must be considered (?)

I have to buy a turbo. I could probably find used, but that could end up stranding me out in the middle of nowhere. For my purposes, a new Garret VNT-15 probably makes sense.
Some helpful advice from a well known vendor

[/URL]GarretVNT17 by gs1100ghoot, on Flickr[/IMG]

Two questions:
1. I have heard that bigger nozzles and a tune will do more than the turbo alone. Is this true?
2. And if you are light-footed, or just highway cruising, will the nozzle/tune approach result in better FE (without any downtube/exhaust modification)?

Click to expand...

dubStrom
The VNT17 was noted to be a more reliable turbo, I recently got the boost hose for mine on Rockauto for $85 and no adapter.
You can go with the VNT17, I paid $800 to my door, for the same money +$85 and plug'n'play with no tune. Should get the same MPG's and spool time is not much more than the VNT15.

I will say the 17 sounds different than the 15 did

Or for a lot less money, you could go to Dutch Auto Parts and get a vnt-17 turbo using a vnt-15 cold side so there are no adapters needed, or you could try to source out a 1759vk; also a good option that should cost less than $800.00 delivered.

I have a 1749, DLC 520's and a Malone stage 4. I LOVE this turbo. Quiet, uses no oil and is literally lag free with this setup, like none at all.

Pricewise its a winner, and being its a factory part, I have faith in its longevity.

Ryan

I just ordered the kerma S7 v2 should be installed and running Monday if they get my tune done in time. Car will have a S7, DLC764, 3bar, n upgraded clutch. Looking for 300ftlb tq.

I may be confused, but isn't this the turbo that does not have readily available actuators?

Mileage Difference?

dubStrom said:

These comments make real sense. If your goal is a dependable economical vehicle, it just doesn't make sense to upgrade to a bigger turbo. If you want more performance, I have heard that just the upgrade turbo won't make that much difference, and the cost of the parts to make it fit must be considered (?)

I have to buy a turbo. I could probably find used, but that could end up stranding me out in the middle of nowhere. For my purposes, a new Garret VNT-15 probably makes sense.
Some helpful advice from a well known vendor

[/URL]GarretVNT17 by gs1100ghoot, on Flickr[/IMG]

Two questions:
1. I have heard that bigger nozzles and a tune will do more than the turbo alone. Is this true?
2. And if you are light-footed, or just highway cruising, will the nozzle/tune approach result in better FE (without any downtube/exhaust modification)?

Click to expand...

After I had a Stage 3 Tune using .205 nozzles installed, my mileage was consistently 52 MPG at 75 MPH in a fully loaded car.