Tsi engines

RabbitGTI said:

The only people who know about relative and actual frequency of problems are the manufacturers and they ain't talking.

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You got that right. So the rest of the forums or mechanics opinions are really just hearsay. No one here really knows the failure rates as to a real percentage of nonfailure. The best part of the forum is that many here know how to fix the failure when it occurs to their car. That's part of why we are here sharing what we do know. Lets just not get carried away with conjecture about what we don't know.

Mechanics also see lots of cars that don't have any major problems. People bring in cars for normal maintenance stuff all of the time.

GoFaster said:

A mechanic's perspective is always that everything is worse than it actually is ... because they only EVER see the ones that break. \.

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That is an absolute false statement, and a myth, and quite honestly angers me to no end that it persists. I see plenty of cars that do not break, because EVERY car needs normal scheduled PM and normal wear items like tires, and in Missouri we have both safety and OBD inspections, that I do, so we see that regardless.

Since our shop is higher volume, and we do pretty much everything, we have a HUGE sample size. We also have a large span of model years, and we see a large span of mileage. We also see a huge variety of the human factor that has a drastic influence on the vehicles we service.

^^^ plus mechanics talk to other mechanics which increases the sample size. When I helped run an autocross series many dealership and independent mechanics ran cars in the events. They knew what broke and what didn't and were very objective about it.

Yes, I have a pretty extensive network of peers, across many brands as well as other independents and specialists. Dealers do see a different slice of the market for sure. And not better or worse, necessarily. Just different.

Also industry places like flatratetech, IATN, ASE, and others offer a good gathering ground for professionals to exchange information, in addition to the numerous publications we get. DerFix magazine is a great source of VAG/Porsche specific tech info, for instance. And no secret there about the EA888 engine's chronic problems, LOL.

Actually, individual owner's experiences is much more anecdotal and less useful than a mechanic's, because most owners have a sample size of 1 car. I'm constantly amazed at items customers ask for: I often wonder "how did you break that?" But even though I have owned more TDIs than most (10+), my experience isn't representative because of the small number of cars. Of course that won't keep me from sharing it here.

You are also on the receiving end of a lot of DIYrs who often shotgun diagnostics for a problem because they do not understand how to properly go about the procedure OR do not have the tools to do something a certain way.

I get a few of those in here too. After someone has thrown part after part at something, only to find they overlooked something painfully obvious. I actually got yelled at t he other day for that.

Some guy towed in a BRM car that was running bad, random DTCs, and could not be trusted. He had installed: a new throttle flap, a new EGR valve, cleaned the intake, bypassed the leaking EGR cooler, then put it back on (still leaking ), cleaned all the grounds, and was pulling his hair out. While he backed it off the trailer, and it was still at idle, I had him open the hood. I wiggled the engine harness by the starter and the engine died. Told him he needed a new harness. Took me 10 seconds. He got mad when I told him about how much it was going to be to replace it. But his anger was likely misplaced, as he was certainly ticked off about how much time and money he had thrown at the poor car to this point, not to mention how much gas his V8 3/4 ton Silverado drank pulling the car on a trailer from Springfield MO.

Everyone (even gurus) misdiagnose sometimes. I went through a raft of issues with the ABS on my '99.5 Golf, and my guru went so far as replacing the pump (I had one so it wasn't a huge deal). Turns out it was (a) a bad fuse on the battery top box; and (b) a broken ABS sensor wire buried in the inner fender. Live and learn.

oilhammer said:

Some GM engines do the same thing, but their pressure regulation is done either in the intake manifold itself or in the valve cover... the horrid 1.4L turbo engine... just sucks the little valve out of the intake and eats it.

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I guess it's good mine isn't turbo

gofaster said:

a mechanic's perspective is always that everything is worse than it actually is ... Because they only ever see the ones that break. What you don't know, is whether there are 10, or 100, or 1000, that didn't break, for every one that did break.

Let's also keep in mind that from the consumer reports perspective, historically, vws have been terrible cars. I've gone past 400,000 km on two of them. Did the occasional thing go wrong? Sure.

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bingo

I don't consider Consumer Reports a good barometer for a lot of products. VW's low ratings in their publication can have as much to do with the dealer service network as the cars themselves. Those of us who were around in the early '00s remember the horror stories about VW dealer service on those troublesome ALH engined TDIs, which are now considered the most reliable of VW diesels.

I consider Consumer Reports to be useless. According to them I've owned some of the crappiest cars ever made and they took me where I wanted to go for over 250k miles. Go figure. I retired them due to rust and general rattiness, not mechanical failure. Meanwhile a niece had a Corolla and everything fell off at 100k, another relative had a Subaru that coughed up it's head studs at 60k. I know that is a small sample size, but who cares....drive more, worry less

They also don't really give good credible long term information either. It is just short term stuff generally. Nobody is polling original owners of 10+ year old cars that have a 1/4 million miles racked up on them. You have to take it with a grain of salt.

You also have to decide what is important to you. For me, I spend ~2 hours a day in my car, and drive quite a bit on weekends usually. I am also no tinkerbell. So I require something that I can fit in comfortably for all that driving, something that lasts indefinitely, something that is fun to drive, and something that consumes a minimal amount of fuel. So yeah, statistics will be in favor of a Corolla over my Golf in terms of reliability, but having spent plenty of time in every version of Corolla sold here in the last 40 years, there isn't a single one of them that can check all the other requirement boxes that my Golf does so easily. And sadly, even Volkswagen now has nothing on offer that can claim that either. May come close, but something tells me a 2019 Golf, in 19 years and 552k miles, couldn't claim what my current daily driver can.

^^^ I'm in the same situation. Did a couple 35k mile years and have a couple more coming up. Not interested in VAG stuff except GSW with 1.4, looking at Compass, Equinox, CX5, not sure what I'll do.

RabbitGTI said:

^^^ I'm in the same situation. Did a couple 35k mile years and have a couple more coming up. Not interested in VAG stuff except GSW with 1.4, looking at Compass, Equinox, CX5, not sure what I'll do.

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My potential list is the same, except I haven't considered the Compass.

I find it easier and less stressful to just have the older cars.

I am reminded of this every day, too, LOL.

Today's list:

2009 2.5L Jetta, 160k miles, thermostat.... this is nearly $900.

2009 3.6L CC, 208k miles, both catalysts bad (have been bad for a while, but he's up against the wall now with inspection coming due), plus the exhaust cam phaser is starting to wig out. Not sure exactly, but both those items would likely exceed $5k to fix. Car also needs front struts and sway bar links (normal wear).

2009 3.6L T'reg (lots of 2009s here today!), 108k miles, needs driveshaft #3. I forget what these cost, but I think around $800 installed... it'll need brakes next service, that's not cheap either.

2004 2.0L Beetle, 122k miles HVAC foam starting to let loose... we all know that one. It has already had its 01M replaced once.

And last but not least, a 2003 Jetta, with the good ol' ALH under the hood... closing in on a quarter million at 242k miles. It needs a thermostat. She'll be out of here for ~$100.

Which one of these cars do you think has been the least costly to operate, and which one will be the least costly going forward? All are in nice shape, nothing ratty or nasty looking. We'll not even include the fuel economy in there, because that isn't fair, the ALH will handily trounce the rest.

I also have a 2008 Murano waiting for a new CVT to show up. Ugh.... hate t hose things....

I bought IBW 17 years ago this week. I've averaged 22,682 miles a year in that car since new. I've always had at least one other car (right now I have 5 other cars), but this one is what gets used the most, by far. At 385K it's the one I feel most comfortable in and, honestly trust the most to not let me down. And it is less stressful to own. I rarely lock it, and I don't worry about leaving it parked on the street in the city or at the airport. Who's gonna steal it? I agree older cars are less stressful to own.

I've spent a lot of money on repairs and maintenance over the years, but it cost me $18,004 new. Even if I've doubled that in maintenance and repairs (possible), it's a bargain.

I agree a well maintained older car is a stress reliever. A minor scratch or dent won't ruin my day either, plus minimal personal property tax, depreciation, and insurance costs are bonuses.

I agree too, but there comes a time when rust and interior wear and tear kill em, that is the problem.

385K? Damn, I've finally just about caught up to you, IBW - I turned 384,600 this morning on the way to work on my '02 sedan.

I suspect that with the availability of home 3D printers or commercial services like Shapeways, dealing with failing interior plastic bits is getting easier for older cars (just draw, print, and install).

^^^ how do you print a cloth seat ?

I did say interior plastic bits.

Seats can be reupholstered, though.

Rob Mayercik said:

I did say interior plastic bits.

Seats can be reupholstered, though.

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I know, I just meant plastic is the least of the problems in a 20+ year old daily driver. Seats, headliner, door cards, basically everything looks like hell in my B4. I will never, ever buy a light colored interior again.

Loooong thread which leads me to a question for Oilhammer. My daughters friend just bought a 2016 Tiguan 4motion with 30k miles, lease return with all its service done at the dealer. When should the PCV valve that causes the rear main seal issue be changed as a precaution? Which manufacturer for the replacement? The vehicle also makes a lot of exhaust/tractor sounding noise when in the cab driving around, sounds like it has a glasspak muffler but not as loud. It is pretty peppy and gets near 30mpg on the feeeway @80mph. The price was right and it still has drivetrain warranty until 9/2020 and 20k miles to go. This thread has me worried about its longevity.

That still has the CCTA engine, so I'd plan on replacing that valve with every scheduled spark plug change, which is 40k miles.

As for the noise, no idea. These engines are DI, so they do have a slight diesel noise to them, but it is mostly at the engine itself, not anything in the exhaust.

And keep watch on the dipstick, some use more oil than others, but they all use oil. 502.00 spec 5w40.

Yeah, a lease is probably the safest way to drive one of those.

Really a shame, too, because the Tiggy (if you like that genre of vehicle) is really not a bad package. Outside of the engine, they are pretty darn good. Shame we never got any with the TDI. That would have fixed the specter of the junky engine 100% forever.

sloinker said:

Loooong thread which leads me to a question for Oilhammer. My daughters friend just bought a 2016 Tiguan 4motion with 30k miles, lease return with all its service done at the dealer. When should the PCV valve that causes the rear main seal issue be changed as a precaution? Which manufacturer for the replacement? The vehicle also makes a lot of exhaust/tractor sounding noise when in the cab driving around, sounds like it has a glasspak muffler but not as loud. It is pretty peppy and gets near 30mpg on the feeeway @80mph. The price was right and it still has drivetrain warranty until 9/2020 and 20k miles to go. This thread has me worried about its longevity.

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Drive more, worry less

Currently working on a 2015 Jetta TSI 1.8L, 120 km on her. He parked it then came back in the AM to go to work, running like crap. Tow it in, #3 cylinder head, no compression. Remove valve cover-who the f#ck designed this setup, has a broken intake valve spring. Going to replace all 16. Le sigh.
Called VW as warranty was good to 110. They told him to pound sand.

I noticed the owners manual for my '17 golf wagon says it is ok to use 502 00 or 504 00 oil.


noting the 507 00 LL03 oil I had left from my TDI was also rated as 504 00 oil, I used it on the first oil change. 5w30. also on the second, since I still had a couple quarts.



https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php
seems to say that the 504 oil is better in several aspects.


looking for any thoughts on this.

I think I've read that the low SAPS euro oils like 507 and 229.51 don't hold up very well in gasoline engines burning ethanol blend fuels.

meerschm said:

I noticed the owners manual for my '17 golf wagon says it is ok to use 502 00 or 504 00 oil.


noting the 507 00 LL03 oil I had left from my TDI was also rated as 504 00 oil, I used it on the first oil change. 5w30. also on the second, since I still had a couple quarts.



https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php
seems to say that the 504 oil is better in several aspects.


looking for any thoughts on this.

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VW owners manuals are notoriously inaccurate when it comes to oil specifications.

That aside, 504.00 is a gasoline engine spec. The corresponding diesel spec is 507.00