ALH TDI engine transplant into '84 Vanagon

AndyBees · Aug 21, 2015

I had no plans to bring this Thread back to the board unless I did some major upgrades/changes.

But, while it is here, I'll report that my stainless steel exhaust (from Turbo out) is cut, shaped, etc., and ready for welding! .......... at the moment, just too many irons in the fire. (Just purchased a 98 Dodge shop truck with 5.9 Cummins 24 valve and a Yanmar mini excavator with 3 cylinder diesel......... so, some serious work going on. I'm converting the truck to a small dumper...

).

skyking1 · Aug 21, 2015

Cool beans! Sorry I figured it was better to post my question here than it was to chat up your brief summary thread.
I am a cummins guy first. I have two trucks, a '96 12V and an '07 common rail.

AndyBees · Aug 21, 2015

Yeah, I know those project Threads that fall off the Board end up in the Sticky by category at the top of the page. Some of them are finished and in use, like mine. Without sorting through them all, it would be nice to have a Thread with a few comments on the success (finished) projects with links for those that might be interested.

Hopefully, folks will post and tell us about their project in a few words with a pic or two!

Yes, I like diesels..... been driving them since January of 1980.

rotaecho · Aug 24, 2015

I ordered a modified TDI/T3 input shaft for the simple aspect of only having to deal with a TDI clutch in the future and no frankenclutches later.
It's $120 shipped I think it was, took about 3 weeks. If you're patient with your conversion it's worth it.
I got mine here:
http://www.vw-t3-bus-shop.de/en/clutch-dorn/gearbox-input-shaft-tdi-golf-tdi-clutch-conversion-to-org

AndyBees said:
I see only one advantage: It's cheaper to purchase a TDI clutch kit as a package vs buying a TDI Pressure Plate and a Vanagon Clutch Disc separately.
I don't give my TDI/Vanagon hybrid/combo clutch any slack, no slipping and shifts good!
In hind-sight, for me it does not provide an immediate benefit, as I already have an extra "new" TDI pressure plate and Vanagon clutch disc (both Sachs) that I got in a deal (cheap) about the same time I purchased the pilot shaft.
So, going from scratch, it would probably be a good investment to purchase the input shaft!
I don't think it is listed anywhere now. But I do have the guy's e-mail address. (Search for 094 Input shaft in the Samba.com...)

AndyBees · Aug 24, 2015

Yep, rotaecho, but back in '07 when I first began gleaning various sources for info on a TDI conversion, it really difficult to come by.

When my present clutch/flywheel set-up goes kaput, I'll install the new TDI input shaft.

How much did it cost to get your shaft shipped over from across the pond?

markward · Aug 24, 2015

Thanks for the link to the input shaft. That seems very reasonable. Like Andy, not so many options when I did my conversion for the transmissions. I am still running the stock 1.6 diesel flywheel and clutch. I must be easy on clutches. Just returned from another cross country trip that included interstate and mountains. Still no indication the clutch is not up to the task. I probably have about as many miles on my conversion as Andy does. I am also pushing a loaded camper. mark

rotaecho · Aug 26, 2015

Yep! I totally understood you had to make due with what you had then

Andy, if I'm not mistaken around $130

AndyBees · Dec 24, 2015

Update

Okay, after a long absence from this Thread, I thought it was time to do a bit of any update.

Back in the summer, I began to hear a noise. It turned out being the right rear axle nut (castle nut) that was slightly loose. I drove the Van for probably 2k miles with the noise (roar) getting louder.

Anyway, after I pulled the transmission was when I found the loose axle nut. But, as can be seen in the following pics, it was a good thing I pulled the transmission.

Below, with the bell housing off...

As I was pulling the trans out and down the pilot shaft come out hanging in the clutch disc and pilot bearing of the crankshaft .......... it was a PITA to get the tranny out and down.

See the reason below ... pilot shaft snap ring laying in the diff of the trans. I suspect it had been laying there for a very long time .... prolly went to Alaska that way.

Below, is the magnetic drain plug after about 40k miles on the second oil change ... about typical (I hope.)..

Below, is a "temporary" totally stock with unknown miles transmission I installed. It is also the DK with the 4.57 R&P. It shifts really great with no whines. The torque is awesome in 3rd and 4th since they are stock (1.23 & .85 respectively). The upgraded tranny has 1.14 and .77 3rd and 4th gears. The difference in the gearing is about 3400 RPM for 70 MPH vs 3000 RPM for 70 MPH.

Below are two more views of the Temporary tranny. Notice the TDI starter and adapter. The TDI starter is awesome.

Lastly, notice the jack.. well, that is a motor cycle jack from Harbor Freight. It works perfect for changing the transmission and it's really good working with the fuel tank.

The engine and set-up is still doing just fine. MPGs range from 32 to 36 depending on the driving circumstances. Oddly, the lower geared tranny hangs around 32 to 33 MPG.... not bad, but way too many RPMs.

Side note: Of those who followed our trip to Alaska, I'm sure you saw a few pics of our Schnauzer (Scruff). Well, he was killed by a coyote in our drive-way the morning of 10/31/15. RIP little buddy, (9/2005-10/31/2015). (Grandson, Eli in the background.) That middle seat in the Van belonged to Scruff ...

markd89 · Dec 24, 2015

Hi Andy,

Good to hear your updates. I'm told a drain plug like that is totally normal...

Take care,
Mark

Davegsm82 · Jan 1, 2016

Interesting read Andy, I've converted my own T3 to TDI and Audi flipped 5-speed transmission. You can take a look on club80-90 if you like;

http://forum.club8090.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=141442&p=8116118#p8116118

Dave.

AndyBees · Jan 13, 2016

Here is my future project - 1989 Vanagon ... storage find (142k miles)

AndyBees · May 21, 2016

Getting the "rig" ready for another road trip to Alaska.

Here are a few pics of the New Exhaust System ... Stainless Steel. Beginning at the Turbo, each section exits into a larger pipe. ID at Turbo is 1.95" and final exhaust opening is 2.25" at end of muffler.

(Note: the left side Motor Mounts/Braces and transmission are out. The oil on the exhaust manifold is there because I had it out and in the Vise on the work bench..)

The pic below shows the new 180 Stainless Down Pipe. It is connected to a resonator via a spring loaded doughnut swivel flange....

Below, is a shot showing the full length of the resonator ... The 2X4 is holding up the engine, not the exhaust..

And, below shows the exhaust making the turn to the right side of the vehicle. The CAT and muffler have not been installed yet....

Notice after almost 4 years and 60k miles later that the bottom/side of the engine is a bit dirty ......... will be cleaned before putting everything back together. I might add, the "trap" in the oil drain pipe from the Turbo was not clogged, no sludge, etc.

CRSMP5 · May 22, 2016

will the cat get proper egt to work with the resonator before it? id think a wrapped up straight pipe to hold heat in may be a better option to keep the vnt actuator cooler too.. hate to see ya soot plug the cat from lack of heat...

AndyBees · May 22, 2016

CRSMP5 said:
will the cat get proper egt to work with the resonator before it? id think a wrapped up straight pipe to hold heat in may be a better option to keep the vnt actuator cooler too.. hate to see ya soot plug the cat from lack of heat...

Other than the size of the exhaust, the resonator, and the CAT being 1.5 inches closer to the Turbo, the system is the same as it has been for the last 60k miles. Also, the previous system had the woven flex pipe where the resonator is now. I tend to believe the woven flex pipe would lose heat faster than the resonator. The CAT seems to have previously worked pretty good as it did emit a "chlorine" like odor once up to speed.

It might be a good idea to wrap the 180 pipe from the Turbo down to the resonator.

Lastly, considering the engine RPMs at speed in 4th gear (that's top gear) are considerably higher than in the Jetta/Golf/Passat in 5th gear, the "soot" gets blown out daily. Example, 70 mph = roughly 3000 rpms.

AndyBees · May 26, 2016

While doing these mods and upgrades, I discovered that the OE Vanagon 228mm Clutch Disc is cracked in several places. In fact, I do not understand how it has hung together to this point.

Anyway, I'm changing it to a TDI clutch disc. I installed the Pilot Shaft that has the larger splines to accept the TDI clutch disc.

Also, I am going back to the OE Diesel Vanagon Motor Mounts.

I'd post pics, but for some reason the gallery is not functioning at the moment.

I'm pushing a deadline to get this thing ready for the upcoming road trip to Alaska. Hope to depart the last week in June.

cyrus #1 · May 27, 2016

I have the TDI pilot shaft and a southbend clutch in my ALH westy. No problems so far and surprisingly enough I didn't even have to grind the bellhousing for clearance. I am sure you will be happy with the setup.

What is your reasoning for changing back to the diesel engine mounts? Do you have the '82 or '83 up mounts?

AndyBees · Jun 20, 2016

Below are a couple of pics showing the "cracks" in the clutch disc that has about 58k miles on it. This is an OE 228mm clutch disc that's normally used in the Vanagon. I replaced it with a TDI grade clutch disc using a pilot shaft designed for that purpose.

Below is pic showing the new TDI clutch disc on the right.

So, it is pretty obvious the OE Vanagon Clutch disc is not strong enough to handle the TDI engine...

jimbote · Jun 20, 2016

that looks really bad, did you ever have any engagement chatter issues ?

1.9ZOOK · Jun 20, 2016

Good thing you caught that early...

AndyBees · Jun 20, 2016

The clutch worked just fine, no slipping either. The transmission shifted fine too. There has always been a rattle from day one which most folks said was normal for an old single mass flywheel. Pushing in the clutch pedal stopped the rattle.

This was only discovered because I changed the pilot shaft to the upgrade for the TDI clutch disc. Otherwise, I would have headed out on the long Alaska Road trip with that piece of junk!

The new set-up also has a rattle, but nothing like previously. I had considered a DMF some time ago. I sure wish I had gone with it.

jimbote · Jun 20, 2016

AndyBees said:
The clutch worked just fine, no slipping either. The transmission shifted fine too. There has always been a rattle from day one which most folks said was normal for an old single mass flywheel. Pushing in the clutch pedal stopped the rattle.

This was only discovered because I changed the pilot shaft to the upgrade for the TDI clutch disc. Otherwise, I would have headed out on the long Alaska Road trip with that piece of junk!

The new set-up also has a rattle, but nothing like previously. I had considered a DMF some time ago. I sure wish I had gone with it.

i'm running the LUK 17-050 dmf setup in my van and love it so far... super quiet and smooth... my buddy even remarked how quiet it is compared to his smf tdi westy.... just bite the bullet and get the LUK

AndyBees · Jun 20, 2016

Well, this old man has about had the lick getting ready for this trip. I have 8 days left to be ready to depart. I'm pondering about going back to the Hydraulic Motor Mounts because the fabricated bracket needs some cutting to keep it from tapping the carrier bar using the OE rubber diesel mounts. (I'm extremely pleased with my new stainless steel exhaust and the hanging system.)

I still need to delve into the dash to address some grounding issues and the binding brake pedal pivot.

Yes, I do wish now that I had gone with the DMF.

I'm really pleased with the TDI Starter and Adapter. Also, adding a relay near the starter has been a great addition. A relay is probably what the OE starter needed all along because occasionally it would only click.

rotaecho · Jul 8, 2016

Jim,

Are you using the stock 82' diesel vanagon bell housing? If so, did you require any special modification?

Thanks!

jimbote said:
i'm running the LUK 17-050 dmf setup in my van and love it so far... super quiet and smooth... my buddy even remarked how quiet it is compared to his smf tdi westy.... just bite the bullet and get the LUK

jimbote · Jul 8, 2016

rotaecho said:
Jim,
Are you using the stock 82' diesel vanagon bell housing? If so, did you require any special modification?
Thanks!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=459751

AndyBees · Jan 26, 2017

Well, it's been a while since I looked in my Conversion Thread.

The second trip to Alaska went well http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=461706

In short, the MPGs were actually a smige better than in 2014 hauling two additional adults and their luggage. Just go to the end of the link above for the stats (at or near the last page).

As for the clutch, I ordered and have received the LUK DMF kit... will be installing in the near future.

I've also ordered new OE Diesel Vanagon engine mounts. They are FEBI NOS from Eastern Europe. I was impressed with the switch to the used OE rubber mounts. They proved to be much better than the hydraulic motor mounts .......... far less vibes at high RPM.

Also, I've been looking at ways to modify or replace the OE transmission mount with something less harsh. I'd like to use the right side OE motor mount from the Jetta/Golf/NB. It is very soft and flexible.

And, I'll be installing an in-line fuel pump. Seems the intake pipe inside the new fuel tank is not close to the bottom. It has sucked air a couple of times when the fuel level was down close to about two to three gallons, especially going through curves at a high rate of speed. So, I've been filling up at about 12 gallons in the 16 gallon tank.

AndyBees · Dec 31, 2017

Almost a year since I last brought this Thread out on the board.

Here are my plans for this Thread.

1. Replace the photos that Photo Bucket blocked (I prepared a list recently, not very many to replace).
2. I intend to do an outline of major aspects of the project with links which will be posted on the 1st page.
3. I may go back and delete some junk that's totally unnecessary!
4. I'm going to try to make a series of drawings to be representative of the Wiring Schematic on an "as built" basis. This one will be the challenge.

And, yes, from time-to-time I do get PMs and e-mails requesting info or giving thanks for my Thread.

Happy New Year in 2018 to everyone!

smelly621 · Jan 20, 2018

Hey Andy,

Thank you for your helpful thread updates, and of course the original content. Regarding your note about the AC compressor adapters you ended up using - do you know what part number or application they are listed for on Cold Hose or elsewhere?

The ones in your picture look like they go down into the holes in the compressor head and have a grove for an o-ring much like the stock mk4 AC hose ends. When I asked cold hose which fittings I needed, they told me these: https://coldhose.com/peanut-style-gm-sanden-sd7-compressor-discharge-block-fitting-1526.html were the right fittings - but I don't think that seems. To me, these: https://coldhose.com/catalog/produc...ion-and-discharge-block-fittings/category/39/ look closer to the mark.

I am re-working my driver side motor mount and don't think I will be able to use the stock mk4 hose end anymore due to clearance issues.

AndyBees · Jan 21, 2018

Smelly621

Okay, what you saw earlier in this Thread has been totally changed.

Initially, I cobbled up (had welded) the OE fittings from the TDI compressor to mate with the OE compressor fittings from the Vanagon compressor to adapt to the Vanagon hoses. Summer of 2012 through 2016, with a few issues, that arrangement worked okay. Then, fast forward to late July, 2017, the high pressure hose blew right above the tranny. A splice blew about two weeks later just south of Indianapolis on the first day of a very long road trip.

So, we returned home. I got online and found Coldhose.com. Using their on-line custom build application, I prepared my order.

Now, back-up to when I cobbled up the first mating. Via a link/info provided by Mark Ward, I ordered those peanut fittings through a local FLAPS. As I recall, the company (which I do not remember the name or part number) would only sell wholesale to a business. Well, as it turned out, those peanut adapotors did not exactly fit compressor and the fitting end was the wrong AN size (my bad). They were smaller than the OE Vanagon hose fittings. So, I just saved them in my stash.

So, to make those peanut fittings compatible to the TDI compressor, I had to drill out the bolt hole on one of them (it was slightly off center) and the other one needed a guide pin hole which I drilled (the guide pin hole was on the wrong side). Seems they are 10AN & 8 AN (suction and pressure respectively).

Yes, the peanut fittings in your link appear to be more correct. However, I'm not absolutely sure. Those that Cold Hose linked are not correct, for certain.

Cold Hose seems really good to work with. I suggest taking photos of the Compressor at the business end as well as the fittings and forward the pics to them. Maybe make some measurements.

I just looked on their web site under my account. My initial order is not listed. I followed up a few days later with an order for one of the smaller front hoses. That order is there in the history. I was hoping to see the fitting sizes on the compressor end of the hoses. I don't think I save the order slip either.

EDIT:

Okay, right here is probably what you need. http://s-pautomotive.com/product/mk4-sanden-sd7-compressor-adapters/

And, this is about what I paid over 5 years ago. From these fittings (8 & 10), you have Cold Hose to make your hoses with properly oriented fittings. Getting the orientation of the port fittings is critical ....... I did a SWAG and got it right.

smelly621 · Jan 21, 2018

Thanks Andy! I've got a crimper and made my current hoses reusing the stock mk4 tdi hose ends, so i think I'll try the adapters you linked and I should be good to go.

Zeitgeist · Jun 24, 2018

AndyBees said:
This continued update shows what I had to do to the AC Compressor today to make it more user friendly with the vintage Vanagon system.

All comments are at the top of the photos.

Basically, the later model AC Compressors have an internal valve (Refrigerant Control Valve[RCV]) that sort of takes the place of a Temp Sensor located in the fan housing under the dash. To make it operate like the old system, the valve must be removed. This procedure will essentially convert variable displacement compressor into a fixed displacement compressor.

This pic shows the AC Compressor with the end off.....the RCV sits in the hole there in the center (not shown in this photo)

There in the center of this pic is the RCV (brass thingy). The shiny nut holds the RCV in place and secures retainer for the Reed system!

This is a pic of all the pieces parts.......notice the retainer (star shaped) at the top of the photo in the background.......the nut holds it on the Reeds.

In this pic, you can see the 7/16 inch bolt with nut tightly securing the retainer on the Reeds. The RCV was just replaced....

This is a pic of the end cap of the AC compressor

Here the end cap is being lowered down in place to be bolted back on.

To see a write-up on the RCV valve, go to the link below and do a search on Compressor Internal Control Valve. The scroll down the page until you see the article on Decreased cooling in GM and VW cars and trucks.... click on it and read!...has pics too!
www.aircondition.com <<<< EDIT: that link is no longer direct to the story (edit date: 8/19/17)... try this link >>>>>
http://www.aircondition.com/sitesea...thread.php?t=276798&page=35&ss=4079j2886059j9
Edit: Credit goes to rsxsr (Mark) and DanG144 (Dan) for their input and research on this topic! There is another Thread in this section pertaining to the topic which was started by Mark. And, seems that Dan has a Thread in another section pertaining to the topic.

Has anyone else found the need to replace the RCV on your TDI swaps? I've been trying to resurrect the formerly working A/C on my ALH swap, but can't seem to get any high pressure readings even though the compressor clutch is engaged. I'm thinking the RCV is interfering with compressor function. This system worked just fine with the old WBX, and the only other thing I touched was a new drier and hi/lo pressure switch.

ALH TDI engine transplant into '84 Vanagon

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