TDI Reliability Reputation/Record

Hi TDI-persons,

Thanks to numerous factors I have started to think that replacing the minivan with a TDI (most likely a Jetta) would be a good idea.

My biggest concern is over the reliability of the car. I am used to driving Toyotas and have rarely had problems, but the index on cars.com indicates that VW's have less than stellar records.

On a hearsay basis, I have heard that they a) last forever and b) are maintainence nightmares. I thought that you folks might be able to help me wade through the conflicting info. Also, from a mechanical standpoint, it seems reasonable that a TDI would be more reliable than a non-TDI VW-- could this be the source of the conflicting info?

Lastly, I realize that you guys are also going to be biased because you obviously pay close attention to your cars and you love them... but please temper your answer for a guy who prefers to fill the tank, take the car in on schedule, and forgets about anything else.

Thanks for any help!

Rick

Having owned a 2001 VW Passat 1.8T for 5 years and a 2000 Golf TDI for less than one year, I would have to recommend a Passat Wagon TDI for you. The Passat's reliability is better overall. The engines in both cars are good but little things go wrong with the body and miscellaneous pieces. Light bulbs frequently go out. Thankfully they are relatively easy to replace yourself, dealers will charge you an arm and a leg for even simple stuff. In general the dealers are not that great for service. I have gone through 5 here in the Boston area and finally decided to use an independent mechanic.

The driving experience is great, I love both cars more than any other I have owned. And the economy can't be beat for the TDI engines, especially if you run on used vegetable oil like I do.

The cars last forever, and they are maintanence NIGHTMARES. My dealer is VERY GOOD, but not cheap. I tend to agree that the best car (if still available) is the last of the 2005 Passats. They have less problems with the MINOR stuff, which is the big problem with ALL of the non-B5 Passats. Actually, if you are a gas and go person, wait 18 months, and buy a DIESEL from Mazda or Acura, EITHER OF WHICH WILL BE BETTER THAT ANYTHING VW HAS EVER MADE.

Why would you think some one like me would be bias? (4/5 vehicles I currently have are NOT VW's?)

Since you have a Toyota minivan did you happen to get one of the easy to sludge models?

I had a 1985 Toyota Camry and at like mileage with the TDI I now have, started to become an absolute maintainance nightmare. Let's see if I remember. Started getting 5-9 miles less per gal. 500 dollars for a dealer to trouble shoot. After trouble shooting, got 1 mpg less or 6-10 mpg less. Diagnois revealed "nothing wrong". Despite 3k interval oil changes, the engine had massive sludging. I discovered this when a manifold sprung a material leak and spewed oil all over the engine bay which in turn (lack of circulating oil) fried the valves. This "little" material failure ended up costing 2,200 to repair (on a car now worth 4500 dollars).

Due to a secret warranty, the brake pads, rotors, and certain suspension parts, struts and shocks, and alignment were replaced (at no charge) I pressed them for the total cost, if I had to pay for this and they were very hesitant. Well this is not rocket science, so I next asked how much it would cost if I had commissioned this work. Lets see 500 for the brake work, 750 for those suspension parts, shocks and struts 650 dollars, alignment cheap at 65 dollars. So another 1965. When you add this with the 2200, that is 4165 for a car worth 4500 at the time. But I do have to give them credit for doing the work on THEIR dime. Which will be probably be saying a lot more than VW under like circumstances.

So for the TDI same mileage, outside of normal maintainance, (done on the Camry also) I had a rear door lock recall. That has been it.

The Camry almost literally ate tires, 32k. My TDI with GY LS-H's which is almost uniformly acknowledged to be worst of breed for VW oem tire has 66k and will most likely get 100-125 k miles.

The next car I run side by side with the TDI is a 2004 Honda Civic 4 door VP. So if you have any questions or are interested in the English assignment, analyze, compare contrast, conclude, let me know.

From my experience I wouldn't consider them a maintenance nightmare; you just have to stay on top of the maintenance. Filters need to be changed regularly. Oil needs to be changed regularly (although every 10,000 miles is no big deal).

If you find a good dealer that's great. I think I have a good dealer; some others on this site have had bad experiences with theirs. This site and its members can be very helpful on TDI maintenance related matters.

It's really not that big of a deal to take care of a TDI (for the routine stuff), but it has to be done. If you neglect them they will rebel!

If you are a "drive it and forget it" type of guy...I'm not so sure it's a good match.

I'd get a coralla if you don't like to get involved with your car.

216,000 miles on my 2000 Jetta TDI 5-speed, 5.5 years old, and it has never left me stranded. Has had mostly dealer service, though I did a couple of oil changes myself. Oil changed every 10K miles, timing belt every 60K -- $700 dealer job, tires about every 60K (the original Goodyear Eagles were awful; Michelin MXV4 Plus were great but pricey; last set are Falkens -- much cheaper than Michelins -- and getting about 50K miles. New brakes about every 80K miles. It has never required adding oil between oil changes!

Did I mention I love driving the car, and it still rides like new?

Only significant repair items: New lower control arm bushings went around 180K miles, replaced rack and pinion unit around same time (steering became very still though still usable) -- about $1300 at dealer. Window regulator on passenger side failed (couldn't raise window) but both were replaced under VW extended warranty. Replaced MAF sensor twice (first time was a $350 item at dealer, now price about $80).

My commute is 58 miles from central Delaware to northern Delaware, mostly expressway with some stop-go at each end. I get 44.5 to 45 mpg typically; 50 if I ease off the throttle a bit. Have taken it to Maine, northern NY and Ohio on a few trips. Average 40-41K miles a year.

Wife had 2001 TDI New Beetle Auto, but totaled it two weeks ago at 70K miles. Had similar satisfaction with the vehicle and we just bought a 2006 TDI auto Spice Red/Moonroof to replace it -- she loves it.

I have a 2001 Jetta TDI - and am basically a gas-n-go person as well. I have had very little problems (if any) with it. I am having a weird brake issue, and have had to replace the MAF (at 90,000 miles - a 10 min job at $90). Other than that, drives like new - leather is wonderful, stereo is great, etc.

and the one thing that beats the pants off of the toyota's and hondas... when you close the doors, hood, trunk, it doesn't feel like a tin can! It feels very substantial and well built.

fill the tank, take the car in on schedule

Click to expand...

If you do that, 9 times out of 10 you'll be fine.

Some background.
The 4th generation Jettas / Golfs (A4's) earned VW a bad reputation from all the problems that they had within the first couple years the cars were out, like bad MAF's failing window regulators, ECU's needing reflashed etc.
If you can still get an 05 Jetta, they are at the end of a generation of production, which means they've gotten most of the bugs worked out. The 06's seem to be pretty good so far but time will tell. they've been out in Europe longer with no major dark clouds hanging over them.

The build quality and ride comfort you get out a VW is above average, you can tell you are in a vehicle that is built well, and they have some of the best crash ratings out there.

Service can be a real pain in the ass if you find the wrong dealer, but you have a resource at your fingertips for locating dealers that don't suck. Local VW Mechanics are always agood thing to find, for maintenence, and are some of the biggest VW junkies you'll meet, they often treat your car like theirs, and use OEM parts. That's how I do it with my customers and they;ve all sworn off the dealers except for warrenty work (which on the newer cars hasn't been much)

We all drive TDI's for the power, economy, reliability, and long service intervals.

Like any car, if you take care of it, it will treat you well.

Well, here's my experience with a 2002 Golf TDI with 80,000 miles. Coolant sensor replaced under warranty, hazard switch recall. That's it. I've been doing the routine maintenance items myself and it's easy to do. Timing belt will be done this weekend with Dieselgeek's kit - DrivbiWire is doing it for me.

The original brake pads are still at 50%. Most of the vehicles with disk brakes that I've owned previously ate pads for lunch--usually 15 to 30k. What I've saved on brakes more than pays for the timing belt.

The main thing is--I love driving this car, more fun and handles better than anything I've owned before.

Bottom line, from what you said in your post, you don't sound like a 'driver' to me, more of an 'A to B' kind of guy who isn't particularly interested in doing your own routine maintenance. You should probably stick with a Toyota.

Because of the price of fuel lately I don't think you're going to find any bargain priced TDI's right now anyway.

gleep

I would be described as driver who likes to go from Point A to Point B, inexpensively, safely, and occasionally hauling stuff.

I've got a '03 TDI Jetta Wagon GL with the cold weather package. It currently has ~85K miles on it. You will find that what comes "standard" on the Jetta are "options" on most other cars. It has very high safety and crash test ratings. I can haul a lot of stuff in that car. It's our car camping vehicle because we can toss firewood, gear, and dogs in there. We also installed a hitch on it for a bicycle rack. If you like the hauling capabilities of a minivan, you'll want a wagon. However, you will dislike that there's less leg room. VWs are not for BIG people. I've heard that the Passat Wagon (now available in diesel) has more leg room.

There were no maintenance problems while it was under warranty (50K). Routine maintenance got done by a shop (to keep VW from voiding the warranty), but not the dealership (they were more expensive and a nightmare to work within my work schedule). After the warranty was up, we had a problem with the intake manifold being clogged, and it's not cheap to get it cleaned out. This is a common problem with TDIs (do a search on intake manifold or EGR to see what I mean). There are also some things that if you do from the start to make it a smaller problem (and still be covered by your warranty). Wish we had known. That's the only issue we've had that is unique to a TDI. If you do the regular maintenance, as scheduled, you will eliminate many problems.

Once your warranty is out, find a really good mechanic who knows how to work on a TDI blindfolded. The folks on TDIClub will be able to direct you to some good ones. Just because a mechanic has worked a lot on regular gas engines... doesn't mean they know squat about a TDI.

We bought the wagon new... it was a pain to find a TDI wagon that was basic (i.e. no leather, no sunroof). There weren't any to be had in OH, MI, NY, IL, or IN. We ended up finding one in AR and had to come from MI to pick it up (but we have family in that area)! Yes... I really wanted a wagon (which greatly limits options) that was fuel-efficient, and the TDI Jetta Wagon fit that perfectly. I would've had to wait 3+ months for the next shipment to come in... and my old car ('91 Subaru wagon) wasn't going to make it that long!!

-Stephanie

I am used to driving Toyotas and have rarely had problems, but the index on cars.com indicates that VW's have less than stellar records.

Click to expand...

Rick, you need to prioritize your concerns. People don't buy German cars because of their "reliability". People buy Japanese cars when they are concerned about "reliability".

You've answered your own question

People buy German cars for their hi speed abilities, handling characteristics, driving experience and overall safety. Again, German cars are not bought for "reliability".

Also: I like the 5 spd manual Toyota Corolla A LOT for newbies that pose this question.

Heh. Good point. My other car (wife's car, really) is a 1999 Toyota Corolla 5sp. Of course, it's made in the U.S. and has the worst fit and finish of any Japanese car I've owned. Her 1990 Tercel put it to shame. But, it just doesn't break.

(BTW, that thumping noise is me knocking on wood!)

As a failsafe, we still have my 1994 Mitsu pickup on hand as well. The front main seal is a little leaky, but it's only around as a work truck.

Maybe the definition of reliable is different for different people? I certainly didn't buy my Jetta for it's hi speed abilities, handling characteristics, or the "driving experience". Handling characteristics? Driving Experience? Uhhmm... it starts every time without coaxing, goes when I accelerate, keeps a constant speed while cruising- even through the Smokies, stops quickly when I hit the brake pedal, and I avg 46 mpg. I've got more than enough power to pass vehicles on the highway, but I'm not going to win many races when the light turns green! It's a great commuting and do everything car that's an economical choice. I certainly didn't buy it so that I could "bleed green" but look cool while doing so!!! Having a car that performs well, has standard features that other vehicles refer to as "luxury items" (since when are power windows and locks anything but standard??), *and* looks cool is a nice bonus. Have I mentioned that the heated seats are awesome... especially when it's -10F.

You will have to remember that it takes diesel not unleaded, that the oil and other fluids are different than for a gas engine, unless you take preventative measures you're intake manifold will get clogged up, put anti-gelling stuff in the fuel tank in winter, and never ever let a non-TDI mechanic do much of anything under the hood!!! A few more things to remember, but not too bad.

-Stephanie

P.S. My previous car was a '91 Subaru Wagon (which I LOVED and still mourn). However, I was annoyed that Subaru increased power at the expense of gas mileage AND had gotten way too pricey, so a newer Subaru was out of the question.

Rick, are you still there?

I'd get a coralla if you don't like to get involved with your car.

Click to expand...

And actually (I) just did. A 2006 Corolla-S 5 speed. I wanted a TDI in the worst way, but when a friend who worked at VW (service writer) told be to stay away, well what's one to do

I hope my 06 TDI lasts a long, long time. I have owned a used V-dub back in 80-81. I don't even know the model however it was a station wagon like VW. It was a cool little care and I loved it. It had a little problem with shutting off/bogging down while driving, besides that it was great, lol.

A little schooling please. I bought my TDI at Fitzgerald's in Annapolis. Initially I thought it was a great dealership, however I have since started to change my mind.

My salesman told me the TDI was 23,5k sticker. He would sell it for internet price of 23,1 if I didn't take their little service program that costs about 360 bucks. It was just oil changes and it didn't even cover the costs for synthetic oil. I had to pay the difference.

Also it had the XM installed and I wanted Sirius, as thats what I have now and Im familiar with it. I didn't see the big deal in switching the box out of the trunk and asked to have it "thrown in". The salesman had to ask the manager who came over and blah, blah, blah, said it was a big production and he would do it for 150.00. I said ok, but I am not happy with that. Way to keep a customer happy.

So I go into finance and the guy was pretty good. He didn't jam the extended warranty down my throat. I told him I was going to compare VW's program vs. Geico's program, (he told me, probably correctly, that Geico will not use OEM for repairs).

Would Geico using non OEM parts for repair void the warranty?

Anyway, the finace guy said they didn't charge me for the servicing program. So for some reason it didn't hit me that I was charged the 23,5k and not the 23,1k price the salesman told me I would get.

I realize this that night and called the next day and talked to finance guy. He said he would talk to the sales manager, (a guy who just rubbed me the wrong way on day one), and the saleman. He said they could send a check for the difference.

I said instead of that I would be willing to just have the XM/Sirius swap done for free, call it a wash. He said that sounds reasonable. But again he has to get with the two other knuckleheads, (my words), salesman and salesmanager.

The car is dropped off, I get the loaner, (a junky chevy). I go back the next day to pick up my TDI. I wonder if the service managers are supposed to know much about cars? Check this out. I drop off my TDI and I inform the manager that while driving a constant speed the FM stereo kinda fades in and out. Not like bad reception but you can hear it go up in volume and down.

One of the managers said he is a old man and just now is getting into CDs. The other said he has never heard of that, except that GM has that setup on their stereos and perhaps its the same on VW? Im thinking what the hell have I gotten into.

I then ask about changing the fuel filter and is bleeding required on the PD engine? He looked at me like I was from another planet. Again, Im thinking, *** is going on here?

I was going to ask him something really difficult and see what he said but I figured why bother? (I asked the salesman when I bought the car about the glowplugs. He told me you dont need to worry about them, just get in and start it. I asked him about the winter, he said not to worry, they are the kind that you don't have to wait for!!). If its true then its new to me.

Jeez, where was I? Oh yea, so I go to pick up my TDI, I couldn't wait to give up that loaner, YIKES. I am supposed to get with the finance guy and my salesman about the money issue mentioned above.

The salesman was in training, the finance guy was with a customer. So that salesmanager comes over, (that jerk I don't like). He tells me about the xm/sirius swap out. He says thats it was a really really big job and how it took four hours, they have to remove the back seat, etc. He went on to say the shop charge is 200hr, so they would normally charge me 800.00 for the xm/sirius swap!!! My god man.

So the manager said he'd honor the 150.00 he quoted me originally and not charge 800. Wow, what a nice guy. I asked him why he isn't going to honor the 23,1k the saleman quoted me? He just side stepped the issue.

I am not happy at this point. He did say he would check into the whole thing when the salesman and finance guy and get back to me. I told him once I leave I will never see the 150.00 nor the difference between 23,1 and 23,5.

So I pay the 150.00. The service manager told me that they checked out the stereo and couldn't duplicate the fading issue. He said, again, why worry, you have Sirius? Jeez, what a professional shop.

I split and call the finance guy when I get home and let him have it. I told him I don't want anything from his dealerhsip. That I don't need them and will take care of the VW on my own. I didn't want his extended warranty, and how I didn't need the salesman to acitvate the Sirius as I've done it myself.

I told him how I didn't like the salesmanager and thought he was a jerk.

I even said that the money isn't even the issue, its more about treating a customer well.

The finance guy said he agrees 100% and he doesn't want to lose a customer over a few hunderd bucks.

He says he will get with everyone and get it worked out. Im not very confident however.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to say what I feel about Fitzgeralds in Annapolis.

This summer has been very, very bad for my 03 Jetta with 60K miles.Here's a list:
1) Glow plug harness
2) Rear brake switch
3) Broken console latch
4) Failed fan. That one was HUGE! The thing siezed up and for whatever, reason, no fuse blew. It melted everything around it, was in the shop for two weeks and the cost to fix all the damages was 2600. I paid a 500 deductible.

WN, your story made my head hurt. This kind of thing is why I don't like dealing with any car dealer sales department. And don't ever bother asking sales guys about the cars they sell. They don't know anything. I was looking a Nissan Quest once and the sales guy told me that the van was real strong, it had a Ford F150 frame. I didn't know they could rig that truck for front wheel drive.

Anyway, stick with us and learn how to take care of your '06. I saw a couple at the Fest and although I didn't like it at first it's growing on me. And the space sure is nice compared to the A4s.

There's lots of glow plug lore out there, like the story that they turn on when you open the driver's door. Not true.

Enjoy the car. Follow drivebywire's break in procedure. Don't check the fuel consumption until after 10K, if you can help yourself. Welcome!

Thanks IndigoBlueWagon, sorry for the headache and the long, long post. You know, you're the first, besides the moderator, to welcome me. I understand as this bb doesn't seem to have a forum where you can introduce yourself, or if it does then my bad, I missed it.

I've learned a lot already on this thread and I will learn more, for sure. Lots of good stuff here.

I agree with you on the bodystyle. I didn't have much of a choice unless I wanted a used 05 as the new ones were gone. I too am getting used to it and it does have some nice room. I have been really, really impressed with it so far, its a blast to drive.

As far as the mpg, Im trying not to pay much attention but it blows away anything I've had in the past, already. The tank was full when I got it, I have a 400plus miles on it and I am just this side of a half a tank left. By this side I mean to the left but not off the half mark yet. That is kicking butt to me.

(snip) A little schooling please. I bought my TDI at Fitzgerald's in Annapolis. Initially I thought it was a great dealership, however I have since started to change my mind.

Click to expand...

__. Sorry to hear about your finance/delivery problems. All this is just bush-league. There is NO excuse for anyone to treat a customer like this.

Would Geico using non OEM parts for repair void the warranty?

Click to expand...

__. If they do, they're infringing the Moss-Magnusson Warranty Act (as amended). Do a Google search and read up on it. *NO* denial of warranty for not using dealers or OEM parts (unless the manufacturer can prove that there was some real reason that the non-dealer or non-OEM part caused -- and that's fair).

I then ask about changing the fuel filter and is bleeding required on the PD engine? He looked at me like I was from another planet. Again, Im thinking, *** is going on here?

Click to expand...

__. If your A5 is like the later "PD" engined A4 models, you actually have it better than those of us with older (pre-PD) cars. The A4/PD's had an electrical "lift pump" in the tank -- it provides positive pressure from the tank to the main engine injection system; the earlier, non-PD cars just had fuel sucked by vacuum from the tank by the injector pump on the engine. That said, it's a good idea to use a funnel and fill the new filter with diesel fuel or "Power Service" additive but your car will pick up it's prime just fine.

(I asked the salesman when I bought the car about the glowplugs. He told me you dont need to worry about them, just get in and start it. I asked him about the winter, he said not to worry, they are the kind that you don't have to wait for!!). If its true then its new to me.

Click to expand...

__. You have probably found that the procedure is to turn the key until the "coil" icon light next to the speedometer comes on, then start the car after that light goes off. In reality, you'll find that if it's over 40 degrees outside or you've driven the car within the past 6-8 hours, it's not necessary to pay a lot of attention to it.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to say what I feel about Fitzgeralds in Annapolis.

Click to expand...

__. Yeah, and most of us have found that many service technicians (mechanics) at VW dealers are poorly trained for diesels. If you find a good mechanic (dealer or independent), treasure him and keep him. Most of us do most of our own service work -- not only do we save a lot of money, but we're more "in touch" with your car and you know it's done right (see a lot of reports here about how dealers' service departments have screwed up simple oil changes -- while charging a lot of money for them).

Good luck, MrG

I only have 18k miles on my used 2001 Jetta (will turn 100k this coming weekend) in the past 6 months, so I'm not much of an indication oer the long haul. That said, I've had to do only the Standard maintenance that's required on ALL vehicles (okay, so draining the fuel filter isn't something I've done on a gasser, that said it takes less than 5 minutes and is arguably not necessary). The one problem I've had was a Check Engine Light on the glow plug harness ~ 30 minutes of time, most getting famaliar with the engine, and 5 minutes with a VagCom (specialty item, but I expect it to pay for itself within a year) to resolve that problem.

That's the exact same number of issues I've had with my Toyota T100 truck (now with 140k miles, I've put 30k on it in just over a year). And pretty much the same severity too (poor electrical connection on a switch related to the 4WD).

Nothing else has broken, it's never left me stranded, never acted funny, and I'd trust it to go coast to coast at any given moment (not including the 1k miles right before needing a timing belt ~ but that's a given for ANY vehicle).

If I had it to do all over again, I'd certainly buy another TDI VW... though I think I'd lean towards a Passat or wagon just for more space.. I've packed the car FULL a number of times and could really use some more space.

I will Also look in Great detail at the other diesel products available on the market when ULSD becomes the norm here in the States. More competition can only improve upon the situation.

I only have 18k miles on my used 2001 Jetta (will turn 100k this coming weekend) (snip)

Click to expand...

__. Your experience is very much like mine (except that I bought my car new over three years ago) -- I have slightly less than 100K on mine, too. I have done the routine maintenance stuff -- besides that, I've had to replace two tailight and one headlight bulbs. I have a check engine light and need to replace the glow plugs, but that's pretty much expected after 100K and three winters.

__. My car has been just about perfect -- and it doesn't feel like "an appliance"!
'

I only have 18k miles on my used 2001 Jetta (will turn 100k this coming weekend) ... I'd trust it to go coast to coast at any given moment (not including the 1k miles right before needing a timing belt ~ but that's a given for ANY vehicle).

Click to expand...

I'm curious... You are NOT saying it will need a new TB in 1k miles, only that if it did need one you would not go on a long road trip?

Ricky? You still there

Yup, I'd trust it for a long trip at any point so long as no major Scheduled service would be needed along the way (well, unless that was part of the trip ~ going to visit one of the Gurus of TDI ).

Ricky? You still there

Click to expand...

Maybe he is out driving his Toyota.

I liked this part:

I thought that you folks might be able to help me wade through the conflicting info.

Click to expand...

Such innocence in that statement.

Yup, I'd trust it for a long trip at any point (snip)

Click to expand...

__. I am a little concerned (and uncertain) as to why you should be changing your belt at 100K. Most 2001 MY TDI's had an "early type" belt -- these were good for 60K miles with a manual and 40K miles with auto transmission (the auto had a different injector pump). In the middle of the 2001 Model Year (somewhat by engine number but not 100% reliable on this), VW went to a new belt - one of the guide rollers had a medium-sized center bearing and this set up was rated for 80K. By the 2003 Model Year, VW had modified the guide roller bearing to a larger type -- this final and third combination is called a "100K mile" timing belt.

__. No matter what belt and roller was originally built into your engine, you can update to the new belt and large bearing roller and be rated for 100K. But I can't understand how your 2001 MY is up for a belt change at 100K miles. (For instance, if you had an "early belt" and it was replaced at 60K with a later belt, you're good for either a change at 140K or 160K. If you originally had an "early belt" and that was replaced with another "early belt", you'd need a belt change at 120K. If your car was origianlly built with the "new belt", as a 2001 it would have had the smaller roller bearing, thus your belt change should have been at 80K miles.)

__. Please confirm - I'm afraid that you're overdue for a belt change already. Best wishes, and good luck, MrG
'

Belt was changed at 61 and some change... I'll be doing the work myself at somewhere between 110 and 120k (depending on the weather and a surgery my wife has planned for next spring) with a DG 100k kit.

It's not being changed at 100k, I'm just going to turn 100k this next weekend on a short trip to buy some groceries.

Sorry for the confusion, I though it was worded clearly ~ but maybe not. I'm a bit worn from 4 days of hiking through CO right now.