'01 Beetle.. massive coolant leak and no start

turbocharged798 said:

Leakdown won't tell you much as the valves get mushroomed straight on. You can have smashed valves but they will still seal correctly.

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So what do you think about my situation? Run it? Nothing looks out of place from what I can see...

You appear to be handy with TOS and could handle an engine rebuild so, since it appears that you didn't use any tooling to verify cam alignment, run it and if a valve breaks off, I'm sure you can handle fixing it then.

The cam and crank were on... pretty sure i mentioned it. No... I don't have the proper tools to verify it was exact. I verified as closely as I could with what I had. The cam was not a tooth off (it could have been a degree or so but that would have had to been done when the belt was last changed and the gear was off).

You said to check the lifters.... I have. I don't see anything which is why I posted pictures and asked for input from those experienced with this specific engine. Sure I can rebuild it... but I don't want to and that's sorta the point.

To hell with it... I'm pulling the head.

I'd rather be safe then sorry... plus I intend to sell the thing and I don't want to sell a ticking time bomb. If the valves are straight, I'll clean the head up... new valve seals... lap the valves... cam and lifters (or just lifters as I looked the cam over last night and it looks to be in good shape.. I'll decide that later).

Anyways... I don't have much shop time with a 4 month old in the house (typically after he goes to bed 'til I cant stay awake any longer)... so I'll shoot for getting it pulled by mid week and post up what I find.

Cost of a head gasket, valve seals, and time is a hell of a lot cheaper then a full rebuild or screwing someone over.

More to come.

If you get a bore scope you can pull the injectors and look at the piston tops for kiss marks.

If the cam and crank are in time and there are no marks on the lifters, you are most likely safe. A sure fire way to know is to measure the valve stem heights and check that they are all close to the same.

Simple enough. I'll take a look.

I went back out with a BRIGHT light and inspected each lifter... no markings at all. No indication of impact. All the wear on them looks normal... no indentations... nothing.

I'll check the valve stem heights and see where they are at. I know they can very a bit based on how deep the seats have been cut but they should be close.

turbocharged798 said:

If you get a bore scope you can pull the injectors and look at the piston tops for kiss marks.

If the cam and crank are in time and there are no marks on the lifters, you are most likely safe. A sure fire way to know is to measure the valve stem heights and check that they are all close to the same.

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Everything looks to be in order. After CLOSE inspection... no valve tip damage... none of the valves are sitting deeper in the guides... so I got parts on the way.

Gates timing set with metal impeller pump and cam seal are on the way. Bolt kit already arrived (all the TTY bolts needed). I should have the tools I need made up and ready by the end of the week.. so plan is to get it ready to fire by the weekend.

Once it's running... I will probably go on and do brakes, struts/shocks, and any front end parts it may need... get it cleaned up and ready to sell. I did some looking for anything TDI for sale in my area and asking prices are higher then I thought they'd be. Several in worse condition with higher mileage and they are asking 2400+ for them. One with similar mileage and cleaned up, were asking 4k. Are those the going rates?? I thought I'd be lucky to get 2500 out of it but if I could clear 3k on it.. that would be great!

Anyways.. I'll post results once it's back together..

Well there's the problem right there...









Bearing is completely gone... water pump case was damaged.. gear in pieces.. the impeller was damaged/bent.. doesn't appear to have damaged the block though.

The new Gates timing set is here along with a Cascade German deluxe bolt kit (which I'm glad because 2 of the 4 harmonic balancer bolts were rounded off by the last guy.. got em' out though.) Just waiting on the cam seal and vac. pump seal.

Wow! Nice carnage! Never seen a water pump go like that.

csstevej said:

Wow! Nice carnage! Never seen a water pump go like that.

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Nor have I! Lol.

I hesitate to ask, because it looks like ones I've installed. What manufacturer is it?

That's very unnerving to see the metal impeller version explode like that!

Is it an overseas knockoff?

Not sure...

No manufacturer on it anywhere that I could see. Only numbers I see are on the end of the shaft...

"WB1630087"

"NICHJ0"

The top number is a shaft/bearing assembly part number made by KML which looks to be a Chinese manufacturer. I'll look over the belt and idler/tensioner for part numbers too.

I'll take a closer look at the housing to see if there are any other identifying marks.

The Gates I just got was clearly labeled with country of origin (Germany) and manufacturer.

I just can't figure out how a water pump could be THAT fubared and the timing stayed intact... or more to the point, I really doubt it did.

I'm proud of you for not just throwing a belt on it and letting it go... because you easily could.

At this point, I dont believe I'm pulling the head.

Reason being... According to the timing marks and slot on the cam, the two were still in time. Pulled the valve cover and lifters and inspected them very closely... no impact marks or damage. Inspected the valve tips... no impact damage. All of the valve tips are sitting at ~the same level.

From everything I've read and seen, there should be CLEAR signs of impact if the cam jumped time but there are none.

The timing belt was completely in tact... no teeth missing.. could definitely tell it was running on a busted gear as there is some wear. Also, the belt was still tight when I took it off. The only thing keeping the water pump from going completely crazy is where the impeller rides in the housing not allowing the gear to move too much.

I wish there was a way I could guarantee that there was no damage done without pulling the head.. everything is pointing to no damage done.

My gut says to run it... but I'm still questioning that. Strongly debating if pulling the head is worth it...

DDDaaaaammmmnnnn!

I know I'll regret it if I don't pull the head... so I think I'll go on and do it.

Maybe if it did bend a valve or a few.. considering there are no signs of failure... perhaps I can get away with just replacing valves instead of the whole head.

Guess I'll continue the tear down tonight. I'll have to do a bit more research on what all else needs to come apart to get the head off.

If you are going to resell it as stated you owe it to the next owner to check the head off the car. If you were going to keep it and take "your" chances that is something else. Glad to see you changed your mind and are doing the right thing!

Oh I know... then again, I'd pull the head anyways if I were keeping it as I cant be sure no damage was done.

I've flipped plenty of cars and I'm very picky about how they leave my possession. Can't be getting a reputation for offloading junk.

At least it will be a selling point. Hopefully it's worth the effort.

Can anyone give an estimate on what these cars bring? It's an '01 with 200k on the clock.. decent overall condition.

Depends on location, condition and the buyers interest, and whether they like the Beetle or not and MT or auto. Check CL for what others are asking.