Rotella T6 Dealer said not to use it?

ChiTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2002
Location
Chicago IL
TDI
'02 Jetta
I just changed my oil with T6, but without looking until after I was done, I noticed it was 15w40. Has any one used a higher viscosity oil for an extended time? With a mpg penalty due to the thicker oil, are there any other issues to be concerned with? I've never had any other car that I was this paranoid about oil.
I think the turbo and the EGR benefit from the synthetic (5w40 vs 15w40) , others may chime in on this.
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
The big reason to use the 5W40 oil over 15w40 is how fast the oil gets to the various components faster. Also the 5w40 is a synthetic - your turbo and your piston rings NEED this extra durability. While you may be in SC and thus the "winter" isn't too bad temperaturewise - you really need the extra protection otherwise.

I'd replace the 15w40 with a proper 5w40 ASAP.
 

boertje

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2002
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID
TDI
'01, '01, '03, ‘06 NB - TDIs all.
The big reason to use the 5W40 oil over 15w40 is how fast the oil gets to the various components faster. Also the 5w40 is a synthetic - your turbo and your piston rings NEED this extra durability. While you may be in SC and thus the "winter" isn't too bad temperaturewise - you really need the extra protection otherwise.

I'd replace the 15w40 with a proper 5w40 ASAP.
Agreed.
 

DjEclipse

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Location
Niagara Region
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI (Comfort Line), 2001 Jetta TDI Gone to TDi Heaven
The beauty of following the mfrs spec is that it pretty much ensures you are purchasing a high quality bottle of oil.

Buy what is easy to obtain, and at a reasonable price and meets the published spec for your motor.

Again, i'll suggest you drive more, worry less. And don't fret yourself. It quite a revelation when many learn about TDIs. Everything is different from what you expect, but many have gone there before. You are NOT charting new territory on this stuff, DJ ;)
Thanks to everyone for all the replies in this thread. I did the oil change this weekend (along with the air filter and cabin air filter), went with Rotela T6. I was looking into one of those oil pump things to remove the oil from the dip stick hole but figured the old fashioned way isn't really that much work anyway.

Plus I wanted to have a look at the VNT actuator, and see if the turbo leaver was sticking. I'll post my findings in the other thread I started here

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=334290
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
They are recommending the oil that most dealer's sell AFAIK. It's a fine oil (my car used it for 80,000 during dealer service), just not as robust as T6. For them to say that you can't use T6 is what irks me, as it's untrue, as stated in your owner's manual. 0W/5W-40 is all I would run in a TDI anyway. Save money, run T6 10,000 mi OCI. Now that's what I call cheap insurance :)

Bingo.
 

velociT

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Not Austin, TX
TDI
06 Jetta TDI *sold*
My policy of doing the opposite of what the dealer says would have yielded the correct answer yet again...
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Thanks again for the replies. I will use the T6 and disregard what the dealer said.

I will probably be changing the oil every 8000km's give or take a few, I am used to the 5000km changes for gas cars and 10,000miles between changes seems so long.

Cheers :)
Yeah that's great double the wear, but you feel good about it!

You would have HALF the wear if you just ran 20,000 miles or 2 years vs 5,000 mile oil change intervals.

Don't believe me? Do an oil analysis some time, and prove me wrong.

Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 run over 30,000 miles on original OEM filter (50/50 city Hwy)
Costs: $26 For oil; $15 for filter; $30 for labor
Samples taken every 5K on oil
Baseline sample taken at 0 miles to establish inherited wear metals and plot actual rise in wear metals over the course of sample period



 
Last edited:

speedfreeq

Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Location
Weaverville, NC
TDI
02 Jetta ALH/01M, 123k
I use Rotella T6 not only in my Powerstroke 7.3 and in the TDI, but also in the Yamaha R6 track bike that spends entire weekends at 12-16k RPM, and uses the same oil in the transmission ... it's nice to only need to remember the color of one bottle!

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 

Rual817

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Location
Prosper, Republic of Texas
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI ALH
I have used T6 since i bought my 00 Jetta 1 yr ago. 15k OCI with filter every 4k. You can find cheaper cost in bulk filters (10pk = $49 delivered). Mostly highway 180k.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
I have used T6 since i bought my 00 Jetta 1 yr ago. 15k OCI with filter every 4k. You can find cheaper cost in bulk filters (10pk = $49 delivered). Mostly highway 180k.
Oil filters every 4K miles is quite odd while extending the oil change out to 15K miles.

Assuming you've done the analysis to show the oil is still good past 10K miles (which is should be given your commute, unless there's some mechanical issues) the same oil filter can be used the whole interval.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I have used T6 since i bought my 00 Jetta 1 yr ago. 15k OCI with filter every 4k. You can find cheaper cost in bulk filters (10pk = $49 delivered). Mostly highway 180k.
What exactly are you filtering out of the oil, answer NOtHING.

Quit wasting filters.

They are designed to go 30,000 miles between changes.

99.9999% of everything in the oil is too small to be filtered out.
 

cleaver

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Berwick, Nova Scotia
TDI
None - did own '01 and '02 Jetta TDI
Drivbiwire - nice large pic....lol....

I use 25k-30k oil changes (with filter).
I have never done an oil analysis, but if the Europeans can go 50,000km, I am sure I can 25,000km.
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Scratching head over DBW's chart. What is being shown there???

I would like to see the raw numbers from the oil sample analyses. I can figure that out.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
FE wear generated per 1000 miles (blue line), Not hard to understand and plotted over 30,000 miles.
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
So vert axis is ppm Fe generated per kmile? Interesting that the new oil seems to have a higher wear rate than mid life oil? What are the other lines?
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
So the bottomline of the graph is:

New, fresh oil is worse for an engine then old, contaminated oil?

Sounds like the oil companies are doing it all wrong then. ;)
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
So the bottomline of the graph is:

New, fresh oil is worse for an engine then old, contaminated oil?

Sounds like the oil companies are doing it all wrong then. ;)
Its been speculated that the higher wear is not actually wear but the new oil cleaning out what the old oil left behind. That's why you need multiple data points, and not just one. Its rather poor judgement to take one data point and claim it as fact. Its not fact, its a theory until proven with more data.

We can say this though: long OCIs are just find with these engines and 5K OCIs are a complete waste of money and resources.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Spectrographic analysis "wear" data is not indicative of actual wear. More info on BITOG about this.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Spectrographic analysis "wear" data is not indicative of actual wear. More info on BITOG about this.
You are correct, however in when using a 5w40 the wear is very close.

Using a 5w30, the PPM counts drop however actual wear goes up and not reflected in the sample, again as a result of larger sized particles being generated.

Generally, yes PPM is a very good indicator but with a TDI those counts are not reliable when using the thinner weight oil ranges.

Spectrographic can only read particles smaller than 4 microns, above that range they are not detected and the sample will not reflect their existence in the oil sample.
 

Drivbiwire

Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
Joined
Oct 13, 1998
Location
Boise, Idaho
TDI
2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Its been speculated that the higher wear is not actually wear but the new oil cleaning out what the old oil left behind. That's why you need multiple data points, and not just one. Its rather poor judgement to take one data point and claim it as fact. Its not fact, its a theory until proven with more data.

We can say this though: long OCIs are just find with these engines and 5K OCIs are a complete waste of money and resources.
Multiple data points, generally at 0 miles, 1000 miles, 2000 miles, 5000 miles, 7500 miles, 10,000 miles, 15,000 miles, 20,0000 miles etc to track the trend.

Most oils used in TDI's have dispersant's which prevent deposits after the initial run of the oil (2-3K). These are what keep the oil black and the engine clean so quickly in the oils life.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
If you are using an oil that can easily go 10k to 15k miles between oil changes, but you decide to change it every 5k miles instead, then I hope you have another older engine that you can pour this perfectly good used oil into.
 

Rual817

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Location
Prosper, Republic of Texas
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2003 Jetta TDI ALH
The reason I'm changing oil filters so frequently is because I don't know what kind of oil the kid (previous owner) was using. T6 has good cleaners and If he was using an oil with a high ash content, the ash will create a build up in the engine, while protecting the engine from wear at the same time. Loosened build up is getting caught and not running back thru the engine.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
The reason I'm changing oil filters so frequently is because I don't know what kind of oil the kid (previous owner) was using. T6 has good cleaners and If he was using an oil with a high ash content, the ash will create a build up in the engine, while protecting the engine from wear at the same time. Loosened build up is getting caught and not running back thru the engine.
I'm not sure "we" saw ash buildup from using CH-4, CI-4 and CI-4+ oils over the past 15 years.
 
Top