TDI 3.0 - timing chain tensioner covered under extended warranty?

Low944

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Location
VA
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
I have a 2014 Q7 TDI 3.0. It the emissions fix done at 75k in March of 2018. It currently has 95k. It has developed a rattle at warm start up that lasts for a few seconds. A little research leads me to believe it might be the cam chain tensioner. My question is if this could be covered in the engine long block warranty? Anybody know? If not, what do you think it would cost to fix? Thanks for any input!
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Since that isn't an engine management part, I am not sure how they would cover it, but more importantly would be getting them to the point that they would even say it is a problem.

It would be multiple thousands of dollars to re chain the V6. There are two chains on that engine (the older ones had four!). One for the camshafts, one for the oil pump and balance shaft. Then you have tensioners, guides, seals, etc.

This is the first I have ever heard of this problem on the TDI though. The gassers, which are also a 3.0L V6, are somewhat common and they have updated tensioners for this.
 
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Low944

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Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Location
VA
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
Maybe what I am hearing is not actually the timing chain? The symptoms seem to be exactly what I have read elsewhere for the tensioner needing replaced. Maybe I read a thread about the gasser. I will have to try and find it again. I have heard it probably 5 times and realized it was only when started warm after I read the thread, then sure enough, I tried it warm and it did it. It has had its regular oil changes with vw 507 compliant oil. Currently running Ravenol.
 

vwztips

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Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Location
Greenville, SC
TDI
2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
I am not an expert and do not own one, but seriously looked into buying one and asked about the extended warranty as well as read what was covered. My understanding is anything to do with the engine is covered, even turbos.

Of course trying to get VW to be pro-active and fix a noise will be tough.

Frankly they would probably replace the engine faster if it eats itself under the extended warranty
 

KevinGary

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Dec 6, 2017
Location
Long Island
TDI
2015 A6 TDI
I had not heard that the TDi had chain issues. I thought the chain issues were limited to the gasoline engines.
 

oilhammer

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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I had not heard that the TDi had chain issues. I thought the chain issues were limited to the gasoline engines.

Well that would have been my initial thought as well, however, given VAG's awful history with attempting to run overhead camshafts with thousands of little pieces of metal, would give me no great shock if the diesels ended up being just as craptastic. They may just take a little longer to manifest their problems due to the fact that the diesel engines in general don't need to spin as fast nor spend as much time in lower gears or downshift on hills. So over any specific period of miles, they've spun the engine around fewer revolutions, so everything that spins would have worn a little less.
 

KevinGary

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Joined
Dec 6, 2017
Location
Long Island
TDI
2015 A6 TDI
Well that would have been my initial thought as well, however, given VAG's awful history with attempting to run overhead camshafts with thousands of little pieces of metal, would give me no great shock if the diesels ended up being just as craptastic. They may just take a little longer to manifest their problems due to the fact that the diesel engines in general don't need to spin as fast nor spend as much time in lower gears or downshift on hills. So over any specific period of miles, they've spun the engine around fewer revolutions, so everything that spins would have worn a little less.
I also wouldn’t be surprised to hear that the TDi has a similar problem. However, I have never heard of anyone complaining that they have experienced it in a TDi. So I was surprised to see the OP discuss it like it is a known issue in the TDi.
 

oilhammer

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outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The older engine is an entirely different setup, I don't think I would necessarily draw any conclusions based on anyone's experience with that.
 

Low944

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Location
VA
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
Thanks. I will probably get my brother (Audi VW tech at a small shop) to give it a listen if I can get it to make the noise. I tried it again yesterday and could not get it to make the noise. I did do a little throttle stomping yesterday before hand. Maybe I cleared an oil restriction somewhere! lol.
 

craigldavis

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2003
TDI
2009 JSW M/T; 2014 Q7
I'm wondering the same thing (are the timing chain and tensioners covered).

I think it should be covered but don't know for sure yet.

I have a 2014 Q7 TDI with the same startup noise. Before I bought it, the prior owner had it at the dealership and they said timing chain noise. Their quote was well over $5,000 to fix it if I recall correctly.

Prior owner didn't even know about the extended emissions warranty though so he never asked the dealer if it was covered. My guess is that's why he sold the car (not wanting to do an expensive fix).

Since I know about the warranty (I also have a 2009 JSW 2.0 TDI with 330,000 miles :-D) I looked closely at the 3.0 warranty.

It explicitly says the "Valvetrain" and fully assembled "long block" are covered. IMO the timing chain is an integral part of a fully assembled long block's valve train.

I plan to pursue with my dealer later this spring (before my warranty expires!). They are an exceptionally good dealer I've worked with for a long time. And fortunate for me, they show in their system on the VIN that they diagnosed the timing chain (after the EPA repair).
 

Low944

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Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Location
VA
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
Thanks for sharing. If I can get it to make the noise "on command" I will take it to my dealer to get it on the books and see what they say.
 

craigldavis

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2003
TDI
2009 JSW M/T; 2014 Q7
Mine is most likely to do it on the first start of the day (or after 2 days of no driving).

If the chain tensioner is based on oil pressure, and if the tensioner mechanism has internal wear that “leaks down” the oil pressure it had built up, then I’m assuming anytime the oil warms up enough to be thinner and less viscous, then given a chance to drain out of the tensioner you’ll hear the timing chain slap the cover a couple of times until the tensioner gets new oil pressure. In my case it’s literally only about 1 second or so.

I bet if you drive it until it’s nice and warm and drop off at a dealer on a Friday night then be ther first thing Monday morning to start it the first time with the mechanic and service advisor there, you’ll all hear it.
 

zuluflyer

Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
Eugene, Oregon, USA
TDI
Jetta GLS TDI, 04, reflex silver
I have a 2014 Q7 TDI 3.0. It the emissions fix done at 75k in March of 2018. It currently has 95k. It has developed a rattle at warm start up that lasts for a few seconds. A little research leads me to believe it might be the cam chain tensioner. My question is if this could be covered in the engine long block warranty? Anybody know? If not, what do you think it would cost to fix? Thanks for any input!

My 2015 Jetta TDI SEL has a rattle tha the VW dealer mechanic said is found on almost all 2015 models and is the heater core coolant tubes rattling where they enter thru the firewall, and nothing to worry about. Driving me crazy tho.
 

oilhammer

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Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
My 2015 Jetta TDI SEL has a rattle tha the VW dealer mechanic said is found on almost all 2015 models and is the heater core coolant tubes rattling where they enter thru the firewall, and nothing to worry about. Driving me crazy tho.

Your car has zero in common with the OP's car other than the parent manufacturer. Different platform, different engine, different transmission, everything is 100% different.
 

Mark

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2000
Location
Madison, WI
TDI
2009 Touareg TDI
Your car has zero in common with the OP's car other than the parent manufacturer. Different platform, different engine, different transmission, everything is 100% different.
Thanks, I was thinking the same thing.

I've been quietly watching this thread because I picked up an '09 Touareg TDI 2 weeks ago with 125,000 miles. In my two weeks of searching I really haven't found a lot of anecdotal evidence of 3L TDI timing chain failures. The guys over the pond say the engine is dead reliable.
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Your car has zero in common with the OP's car other than the parent manufacturer. Different platform, different engine, different transmission, everything is 100% different.
Yet dollars to doughnuts the dealer will tell the OP the same thing (normal noise) :D
 

bioburner

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Jun 5, 2003
Location
Out there
TDI
02 Wagon 285k - Gone ‘10 JSW - Gone '13 Q7 145k
I’ve had a similar sounding noise on start up for the last 6mo/4K Miles. Cold, warm, not so much when hot. Lasts no more than 1-3 seconds. I was certain it was timing chain/tensioner related at first but am not so certain anymore. I suspect it could be glow plug or injector related. Of course the dealer was not helpful at all.
 

Low944

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Location
VA
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
Since the temps outside have cooled back down it hasn't made the noise. I may have to wait until it warms up good enough to take it to the dealer to get it checked out. I'll report back here afterwards.
 

craigldavis

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2003
TDI
2009 JSW M/T; 2014 Q7
Since the temps outside have cooled back down it hasn't made the noise. I may have to wait until it warms up good enough to take it to the dealer to get it checked out. I'll report back here afterwards.
Please do let us know. I will do the same once I decide to take my Q7 in.
 

Low944

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Location
VA
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
I may have a fix! :eek: As the temps got warmer outside, the rattle became consistent. Every start. My brother, a mechanic, happened to give me a bottle of Liqui Moly oil additive. I put it in thinking it will at least help with some extra protection or revive my seals or whatever else it does. Somewhere in the 300- 500 mile range I noticed it wasn't rattling at start anymore. It has been about a week and probably 10 or more starts. No rattle. I will keep a listen for it and post with updates as time passes. I hope this is it! I am guessing if the Liqui Moly additive did the trick, it must have somehow helped with oil leak-down from the chain tensioner after shutoff. :confused:
 
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bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Which additive did you use?

I noticed the a rattle that matches the description and conditions you wrote here on my 2013 Touareg.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I would agree, however the problem may not be much of a "problem" in the long run. Lots of chain driven OHC engines have start up noise, it isn't always anything to worry about. If it eases the symptom, it certainly isn't likely hurting anything.
 

Low944

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Location
VA
TDI
2014 Q7 TDI
The product was Liqui-Moly MoS2 Anti-Friction Engine Treatment. The clatter mine made for 2 seconds at startup was pretty loud. I am really glad it's gone. There are other guys with this same issue, same engine, that still made the noise after replacing timing chains and tensioners!
 

Jbwoo

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Location
Kingston WA
TDI
15 GSW 06 Jetta BRM
Check if the oil filter housing has an updated part number, and compare it to your vehicle. VAG has a habit of not putting a drain back valve / flapper in it, then superseding the part number with a new part and a flap in there.
 
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