'Contaminated Fuel' in a 2014 Jetta

Greetings,

The car is my wife's. She bought it new in late 2014. Been an ok vehicle except for a TPMS issue in the first month that persisted till just a couple of months ago before a 'fix' was done.

She's never really enjoyed the 'sedan' style so with the buyback option, she has been planning to let VW have it back.

However, last Thursday, the Check Engine/MIL light came on and she was experiencing hesitation in acceleration.

She had just refilled the tank two days prior at the same place she's been going to since we moved 9 months ago.

So, she takes it to our local dealership and they tell her she's got 'contaminated fuel' and is sending a sample of the fuel to VW for testing.

They also told her she could be looking at $7k worth of repair/replacement of fuel system parts.

In looking around here I have seen this number cited as well as $1200 for the HPFP alone.

What I don't understand is what 'contaminant' could they be talking about and why would it result in that much 'damage'.

Any help/advice will be greatly appreciated.

In case it matters: we are in South Florida. North Miami-Dade was where the fuel was purchased.

TIA

Typically gasoline or water . . .

Right. Water being the usual in an old ground tank.

Anecdotally, I had a friend who had two older TDI's and I know once he had loaned one to a friend and they put gas in it. I helped him drain the tank and replace the filters and he just motored on w/o any problems. Is it the newer engine style that is the problem?

Don't the newer engines have water separation?

ergjetta said:

Right. Water being the usual in an old ground tank.

Anecdotally, I had a friend who had two older TDI's and I know once he had loaned one to a friend and they put gas in it. I helped him drain the tank and replace the filters and he just motored on w/o any problems. Is it the newer engine style that is the problem?

Click to expand...

On the newer engines bad fuel "Contamination" causes the HFPF to fail, when the HFPF fails its causes total fuel system contamination of metal flakes, the injectors have to be changed (expensive), on top of the hfpf, the tank and lines all flushed etc etc, there more details as needed in other threads. It is not the old injector pump system we're used to where we can get the crappy fuel out and just keep going, it causes big destruction to the entire fuel injection system.

Quality fuel is even MORE important with modern common rail diesel motors....
Ask for more info about your "contaminated fuel".
Do you have a receipt from the place you bought the fuel? If you don't have a machine one, a credit card company might help you get the extra data for gas vs diesel, so you can try to prove you did nothing wrong, and MAYBE submit the bills for repair to the gas station and MAYBE your car insurance depending on your policy.
The desgin of the fuel system is such (on cars up to 2014) that a failing fuel pump sends shrapnel throughout the fuel system....the filter, injectors, tanks, etc....so all of it is usually replaced to avoid having one tiny shard of metal from letting it happen again.....
The only case of an EA-288 (2015+l ) car with a failed fuel system I have read about, the fx was much cheaper....not sure what changes were made to the routing of the fuel, but apparently it was changed in the newest motors....

Take your own bottle to the dealer and get a sample of the fuel from the tank,
NOW. Just in case the dealers message from the sample they sent away comes back positive for being bad fuel, you can have another sample sent away to confirm. If the fuel is good, and the car has under 120K miles, VW should cover the repair under warranty.
Which as stated above includes the HPFP, lines, and injectors, to the cost of thousands of dollars. Search TDICLUB for HPFP and read up on what others have
experienced, and how they ensured that the fuel they put in was diesel and had
either VW (if good fuel) or the Station (if bad fuel) cover the cost of the repair.

VW has been notorious for claiming bad fuel. Get it checked yourself to be sure.

Ok. Thanks everyone.

I'll get a sample today. She keeps her receipts for everything so we're square there.

So, I guess when the HPFP gets a fluid with a differing viscosity than it likes it implodes?

I find if interesting. That they continue to claim bad fuel for HPFP failures. But the NHTSB tested the pumps with 50% gas and they still didn't fail.

murphyslaw said:

I find if interesting. That they continue to claim bad fuel for HPFP failures. But the NHTSB tested the pumps with 50% gas and they still didn't fail.

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the things manufacturers and dealers will do to get out of a $7000 repair huh?

ergjetta said:

Ok. Thanks everyone.

I'll get a sample today. She keeps her receipts for everything so we're square there.

So, I guess when the HPFP gets a fluid with a differing viscosity than it likes it implodes?

Click to expand...

The issue is the lubricity of the fuel....or rather lack of it...
Water is the worst, and THE likely culprit...but gasoline is not good either.
Many use additives in every tank...
I use POWER SERVICE....cheap insurance...
The white (winter) has an extra addatives that keeps water in suspension...prevents slugs of water getting pumped througb the pump...but if the fuel is super saturated and the temperature changes, or the tank has a bunch of water added....all bets are off.

ZippyNH said:

The issue is the lubricity of the fuel....or rather lack of it...
Water is the worst, and THE likely culprit...but gasoline is not good either.
Many use additives in every tank...
I use POWER SERVICE....cheap insurance...
The white (winter) has an extra addatives that keeps water in suspension...prevents slugs of water getting pumped througb the pump...but if the fuel is super saturated and the temperature changes, or the tank has a bunch of water added....all bets are off.

Click to expand...

What ZippyNH said. Free water in diesel fuel appears to be what's killing HPFPs in CR TDIs. Also fuel up ONLY at busy stations with high fuel turnover. Gasser business doesn't count so look for high diesel turnover. Truck stops and busy gas stations along major routes are best. Go where the big rigs go in your area. These are the ONLY stations I fuel up at and I regularly use an additive in every tankful to help increase lubricity, provide anti-gel in winter, and to take care of what little water I can't avoid getting.

OP, is the station the car was fueled up at along a major route and does it get a lot of big rig truck traffic? I ask because slugs of free water in diesel fuel from condensation will destroy the HPFP in a CR TDI in no time at all and will do so a lot faster than poor lubricity will. The HPFP in common rail systems are much more susceptible to damage from water compared to older rotary injector pump systems. The same water contaminated fuel will eventually destroy those pumps too. Free water in diesel fuel absolutely must be avoided at ALL costs!

Diesel fuel is hygroscopic like brake fluid is and soaks up water from moisture in the air in the station's tank, particularly when there are large swings in daily temperatures. Stations that don't get a lot of diesel business are more likely to have water problems due to the low fuel turnover. I avoid these stations like the plague. Avoid water is most important during winter months in cold areas due to condensation being more of a problem.

I have a busy gas station 0.6 miles from home and it has diesel. I purposely DO NOT get diesel there because the station gets little truck traffic and isn't designed to handle big rig traffic. It's a challenge for a tanker truck to squeeze in there just to make a delivery. My #1 favorite place to fuel up is at a busy truck stop about 25 miles from home. The truck stop gets an entire tanker truck of diesel (10,000 gallons) emptied there every day just to keep up with demand from the truck traffic. They have several tanks and the entire supply is replaced about every 3 days. The fuel I get at the truck stop is competitively priced and always among the freshest in the region. A very busy station like this is always monitoring for water and other contamination. If they should ever have a problem with their fuel it will be caught and corrected very quickly before a lot of diesel vehicles get damaged, making it less likely that I will get a tankful of contaminated fuel.

Follow the big rigs to the busy truck stops for fuel and always use an additive like PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) and water ceases to be an issue.

Good luck.

It's south Florida, so the temp is essentially the same range all the time.

The station is busy. It's a small chain...never really heard of them but there are two close to where she works. "WestMark"

The big rigs do fill up there. She's had truckers try to correct her when she pulls up to the diesel pump, lol.

Also, today, when I went to get a sample, I had to ask one trucker in line (many trucks in line) for the pump if I could cut in front and explained the issue. He told me that they have occasionally had people say there were issues with the fuel but he's never had a problem himself.

We had not used any additive to the fuel.

Next Question:

The dealer told her she could drive short distances just fine. But, her commute is mainly on I-95 so she has to drive 65+ just to go with the flow..unless there is an accident in which case it's stop and go. Total distance is 15 miles with 10 of it on interstate, 2 of it on 4 lane state highway and the rest in city traffic.

We decided to park it till we heard from the dealer.

She called today to follow up and he again told her to drive it.

This just doesn't make sense to me and could leave her on the side of the road or worse; without power on the interstate.

Y'all's thoughts?

Thanks again, everyone.

You should be testing the fuel in the cars tank, not from the pump, necessarily. Maybe both. I suspect there is nothing wrong with the fuel. I have been using diesel for 11 years now and have never found water in any of mine or others I have seen and talked with. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but seems to be a very rare occurrence from my experience. I would lean more towards VW is just telling you the fuel was bad when it actually isn't.

Don't drive it.... imingine it has an issue....on the highway... somebody gets hit...
The "short distance" line might have been to you be you the hint to take it to a 3rd party shop or maybe out of the parking lot to avoid a storage fee...maybe just to tow it away...and drive be it back for the buy-back....
Maybe have it towed back to a lot a mile down the road from the turn inocation....then driven into the lot...would qualify for the full $$$ for the buy-back...zero repair bill...just two tow bills a few months apart.

Yes, since the car has sat since driving back from the dealer last Thursday evening I will be pulling a sample from the car tommorrow.

ZippyNH said:

Don't drive it.... imingine it has an issue....on the highway... somebody gets hit...
The "short distance" line might have been to you be you the hint to take it to a 3rd party shop or maybe out of the parking lot to avoid a storage fee...maybe just to tow it away...and drive be it back for the buy-back....
Maybe have it towed back to a lot a mile down the road from the turn inocation....then driven into the lot...would qualify for the full $$$ for the buy-back...zero repair bill...just two tow bills a few months apart.

Click to expand...

Ok. But, what about the fact that the dealer and VW has a record of the issue?

Most are likly to get crushed....better "fixed" at the option of VW to the agreeed upon lower standard...
The documents just say the car must be capable of being driven under it own power by the engine....
Doesn't say in good mechanical condition....

If the HPFP blew, its a goner. If its still operable even in the slightest, get it towed home. On buy back day get it towed to a store near the dealership and then drive it onto their lot and collect the money. Records dont matter, if it drives onto their lot you can get your full claim.

Edit: Woops, Zippy said the exact same thing! Should've read the whole thread first.

ok. thanks for the input everyone. even more input is appreciated as this will be weeks to resolve.

ergjetta said:

It's south Florida, so the temp is essentially the same range all the time.
The station is busy. It's a small chain...never really heard of them but there are two close to where she works. "WestMark"
The big rigs do fill up there. She's had truckers try to correct her when she pulls up to the diesel pump, lol.
Also, today, when I went to get a sample, I had to ask one trucker in line (many trucks in line) for the pump if I could cut in front and explained the issue. He told me that they have occasionally had people say there were issues with the fuel but he's never had a problem himself.
We had not used any additive to the fuel.
Next Question:
The dealer told her she could drive short distances just fine. But, her commute is mainly on I-95 so she has to drive 65+ just to go with the flow..unless there is an accident in which case it's stop and go. Total distance is 15 miles with 10 of it on interstate, 2 of it on 4 lane state highway and the rest in city traffic.
We decided to park it till we heard from the dealer.
She called today to follow up and he again told her to drive it.
This just doesn't make sense to me and could leave her on the side of the road or worse; without power on the interstate.
Y'all's thoughts?
Thanks again, everyone.

Click to expand...

OK, that puts to rest my concerns about the station and how much truck traffic it gets. The fuel at the station may be OK.

Something doesn't seem right with what the dealer is saying. If it really has a grenaded HPFP, the engine won't run at all. The dealer says it can be driven for short distances, probably in limp mode. You also said the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp aka Check Engine Light) was on. What code(s) were stored??? It would be helpful to read the codes and post a complete list of all codes that were thrown. The HPFP may be failing enough to throw codes for low rail pressure but hasn't completely failed yet but may fail soon. In that case I say DON'T DRIVE IT. It could be something as simple as fuel starvation due to a failed (electric) aux fuel pump feeding the HPFP. I recommend getting a list of all codes that were thrown. Something sounds fishy with the diagnosis so far.

Good luck.

Ok. I'll contact the dealer today regarding the codes. Or, at worst, buy a reader myself...though, they probably wiped them.

It would be best to use or find someone who has VCDS to scan it, if the dealer doesn't have the codes. Most generic scanners aren't as useful.

I found a nearby independent garage that seems to have a great rep on google at least.
Just spoke with the owner, if need be he can pull codes and independently send the fuel out for testing.

He also agreed it was strange for the dealership to say it might be a $7k repair AND tell her to keep driving it.

ergjetta said:

AND tell her to keep driving it.

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Well heck, if it still runs then park it in the dealer parking lot and wait for your buyback. End of problem.

belome said:

Well heck, if it still runs then park it in the dealer parking lot and wait for your buyback. End of problem.

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That's not scheduled till Oct 22.

Luckily, I just quit my job to start my own business and can get her to and from work at the moment.

You can rent a car for a month for way less than 7 grand.

ergjetta said:

That's not scheduled till Oct 22.
Luckily, I just quit my job to start my own business and can get her to and from work at the moment.

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It's not scheduled for any date yet. The date you entered was just so that the system could calculate a number for you. It does not in any way represent an appointment. That happens after a process that begins sometime after Oct 18th.

well, the only information I have is what she's told me...her car, she's been dealing with the buyback issue.

the dealer called her today and besides being evasive, told her they had sent VW pictures of the inside of her 'fuel lines'(?) that show corrosion which they say is an indicator of bad fuel.

and, yes, we could rent a car for a month or however long but the objective is to not lay out any money we don't have to.