ALH IP front shaft seal replacement pictorial with subtitles ;)...

jimbote · Feb 26, 2014

OK as promised a foolproof guide to replacing the front shaft seal on our ALH injection pumps without losing the hub to shaft timing...pics and subtitles beelow....

tools required: someway to hold the pump hub independent of the pump itself, this is my homemade tool (you can also just clamp the hub in a vice), a pump shaft lock bolt... a long audi flywheel bolt a ranger V6 bolt or a service tool such as the one pictured above that i removed from and industrial VE pump ... bolt size/pitch 10x1mm, i would say at least 2.25" long ... another potential source would be some bicycle axles

"homemade tool" clamped in the vice with pump hub bolted up, pump lock pin in place

removing the plug from the lock bolt port

comparing the service bolt on right with the plug on left

shaft lock bolt in place snugged pretty good...you don't want the shaft to slip

loosen the nut and use a three jaw puller to pop the hub loose...I snug it good and tap the puller bolt with a hammer...finish removing the nut/lock washer and remove the pump from the hub..... it's not your eyes...the picture sucks!!

modified screw driver for seal removal

get the hook under the seal being careful not to mar the shaft and work the seal out carefully ...clean the shaft lube up the new seal and reinstall

reinsert the pump taper shaft into the hub (hub is still bolted to tool in vice)...reinsert the pump lock pin through the hub and into the pump lock hole ..install lock washer and nut and tighten nut to 59 ft lb .... finished !!

jimbote · Feb 26, 2014

just in case....

OK if you buy or inherit a pump that has the hub removed and you want to retime it yourself...here are a few tips...

notice that little mark on the seal snout flange adjacent to the shaft keyway?...that's the line up mark for the keyway, using the shaft nut and a wrench turn the shaft until the keyway is visually centered on the mark then tighten the lock bolt.... I have seen on some new or remanufactured pumps from VW the mark is missing ...if that is the case you have to disassemble the pump for the internal line up marks (a pain I know but easier than sending it off to be retimed) ...see below

pump is mainly gutted here ...holding the pump vertically facing the rear the marks at 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock should line up with the drive lugs with the keyway on the taper at near 10 o'clock (if you are facing the front of the pump) ...confusing?...I hope so because I don't want to make it too easy

Powder Hound · Feb 26, 2014

Jim,

It looks like the only things holding the pump shaft when you torque the center nut back on is the lock bolt in the side and the lock pin through the gear. Are those sufficient to hold the shaft against the torque of tightening the nut or am I missing something? Maybe a better question is: is there a hole in the center shaft that the lock bolt fits into?

And do you know of a good source for that service bolt?

Cheers,

PH

jimbote · Feb 26, 2014

Powder Hound said:
Jim,

It looks like the only things holding the pump shaft when you torque the center nut back on is the lock bolt in the side and the lock pin through the gear. Are those sufficient to hold the shaft against the torque of tightening the nut or am I missing something?

And do you know of a good source for that service bolt?

Cheers,

PH

there is zero stress on the lock bolt when torquing the hub nut...that's why I built a tool to hold the hub and not the pump body...if I were to hold the pump body and attempt to tighten the hub nut then yes, the stress would be on the shaft lock bolt and it certainly would not hold...as for a lock bolt I guess you could source from bosch but an audi flywheel bolt or a ranger v6 flywheel bolt work just as good ... as for stress on the pump lock pin the only stress on the pin is whatever frictional rotation the nut imparts on the shaft threads as the taper seats, which is very very minimal

Powder Hound · Feb 26, 2014

OK, thanks for the write up. Great pictures, and your explanation makes it all clear. This particular operation was the only thing I could see would be a problem for most people to self service everything in the injection pump.

Thanks a bunch!

Cheers,

PH

Growler · Feb 26, 2014

Very nice writeup...

csstevej · Feb 26, 2014

Very nice...subscribed.
Jimbote, do you happen to know the service bolt diameter and pitch?

jimbote · Feb 26, 2014

csstevej said:
Very nice...subscribed.
Jimbote, do you happen to know the service bolt diameter and pitch?

10x1 mm .... info added in first post

csstevej · Feb 27, 2014

Thank you.

algirdas · Mar 15, 2014

Thank you, thank you, thank you!
for your post/thread on retiming IPs.

I have an 11mm that I installed and it ran GREAT
but the drive cross broke when logging with VCDS.

So I took it apart, cleaned the shards out and
replaced the cross with a good used one. But
the hub had slipped some from the break/jam.

And I had the camplate 180 out first time I assembled it.
Followed your posts and got it together correctly.

Today I verified the timing, installed pump, added
some 2stroke oil, test drove it, didn't break, VCDS
logged it, didn't break, took it out and flogged it,
didn't break, revs right on up to 5500rpm(TDtuning).

I've read the 11mm is worth 20hp, I wouldn't doubt it!

So again,
Thank you!
algirdas

jimbote · Mar 16, 2014

good to hear algirdas !

... yeah the 11mm is a nice upgrade... my y2k bug (since sold) was a total hoot with just sprints and 11mm and no tune .. i miss that little car

Dorsal · Mar 17, 2014

Very good Thank You, too all the mystery right out of it.

Dorsal · Mar 17, 2014

I meant took

snubeetle · Mar 19, 2014

still not sure...

I have 2 ip's that need this shaft seal replaced I'll experiment on my 10mm first and save the 11mm for when I feel confident. I find it hard to wrap my head around how there is no torque on the shaft and subsequent lock bolt, when tightening the hub to the shaft. Do you tap the hub onto the taper to re-seat so there is no torque on the shaft. If I can get this cleared up I'll be making a nice vice holder tomorrow.

jimbote · Mar 20, 2014

snubeetle said:
I have 2 ip's that need this shaft seal replaced I'll experiment on my 10mm first and save the 11mm for when I feel confident. I find it hard to wrap my head around how there is no torque on the shaft and subsequent lock bolt, when tightening the hub to the shaft. Do you tap the hub onto the taper to re-seat so there is no torque on the shaft. If I can get this cleared up I'll be making a nice vice holder tomorrow.

no tapping to seat the taper required at all...the nut pulling the shaft through the hub does all the work.... since your holding the hub and not the pump you are isolating the force to the hub and the shaft area from the taper to the threads...there is zero torque force transmitted beyond that ...the only rotational/twisting force on the shaft (as explained in separate post above) is the friction of the nut threads on the shaft threads as the shaft taper is seated into the hub, and even then, this small force is only transmitted to the pump hub lock pin, not the shaft lock pin ....

you can think of it this way too...when you do a timing belt job and the cam lock is in place and you want to loosen the cam bolt, you don't just turn the bolt destroying the cam and the lock tool...you isolate the force away from the cam shaft by using the "sprocket buster" tool ...this allows the force to be isolated to the cam sprocket and bolt ...there will be zero movement/torque at the cam lock tool.... hope this (long winded) explanation helps!

A5INKY · Mar 20, 2014

Great info, much appreciated.

This should be stickied.

ToddA1 · Oct 23, 2016

Bringing up an old thread.... good stuff!

Is the main shaft lock bolt engaging a hole?

Are the metal gaskets (1461074328 & 1461038319) that seal the timing piston covers reusable? I notice that the Bosch seal kit (2467010003) doesn't contain them and a quick Google search only shows international sellers.

I haven't called the dealer, yet...

-Todd

jimbote · Jan 20, 2017

ToddA1 said:
Bringing up an old thread.... good stuff!
Is the main shaft lock bolt engaging a hole?
Are the metal gaskets (1461074328 & 1461038319) that seal the timing piston covers reusable? I notice that the Bosch seal kit (2467010003) doesn't contain them and a quick Google search only shows international sellers.
I haven't called the dealer, yet...
-Todd

the bolt is friction only on the pump shaft... as for the timing piston seals i've always reused without issue

Uncle Karone · Sep 9, 2017

Internal Timing Pictures

Jimbote, I would like to view your pictures if this How To if they can be revived. Having to reinstall the hub on my acquired pump and my keyway wont stay exactly lined up index on snout due to resistance from cam or spring in pump It lines up with the leading edge of key way. Thought I could lock down shaft while holding in centered position with wrench on nut, then install hub.

wonneber · Sep 9, 2017

I'm interested in seeing this also.
I've been following Unc's other post.

kapilamuni · Sep 11, 2017

Unable to view the pictures. any help on this, please?

Lightflyer1 · Sep 11, 2017

Photobucket where these were hosted has started charging $400 for hosting pictures that are linked. Don't look for these to come back easily. Last I heard they were trying to find some way to restore them, but it will probably take the original poster going back and redoing the entire thing with a different host. Please try to use this forums picture host instead of another to stop this from happening again with the next one (host).

kapilamuni · Sep 11, 2017

Jimbote, appreciate if you could intervene.
I need to go through this excellent post before I start on my inj pump.

thanks in advance

Lightflyer1 · Sep 12, 2017

Might try a note or email to him instead. May not see this from 3 years ago.

kapilamuni · Sep 12, 2017

Thanks Lightflyer1.
PM sent to Jimbote.

dieseldrive · Nov 3, 2017

This procedure will enable you to get the hub back on the pump where it was before you removed it, but if you want to reinstall it to factory specs you'll need a dial indicator and adapter to measure plunger lift (much like we did in the old rabbit diesel days timing the pump to the engine.

The small mark on the pump housing is there so you can identify that you have the pump shaft turned to the proper cylinder before measuring lift (It is just the starting point). TO properly index the hub to the shaft (with hub already removed) make sure the shaft key slot is near the small mark on the front of the housing, install a dial indicator in place of the 12mm plug in the center of the hydraulic head. You will now need a way to grip the shaft firmly enough to turn it into its stroke (against spring pressure. I use two thin nuts jammed against each other which allows me to turn the shaft safely with a 7/8's wrench.

Now rotate the shaft a little each way until you can verify the hydraulic head plunger is at BDC and zero your indicator hear. Now rotate the shaft clockwise until you get .85mm plunger lift; tighten your shaft locking bolt (the long 10mm bolt referenced in the original post) just enough to hold the shaft in this exact position (don't overtighten this bolt). Remove the two nuts that you turned the shaft with, clean the shaft and hub tapers very well (I usually lightly scuff the tapers with some 320 grit sandpaper just to be sure, then rinse it again with brake cleaner). Now install your hub and nut loosley, then insert your timing lock pin through the hub and into the pump housing (just like you were installing the pump on the engine. Now you can snug up the hub nut just enough to start to lock it onto the shaft (don't torque the nut yet because you will bend your timing lock pin and/or damage to pump housing. Remove the locking pin now and using the proper hub holding tool, torque the nut to 59 foot lbs and loosen the 10 mm shaft tension bolt (could have been removed after your pre-torque).

To recheck your work just rotate the hub until the hub alignment pin can be inserted fully and verify that your plunger lift is .85 mm plus or minus .05mm.

This above is the proper procedure to index the hub according to Bosch and is how it is done in a diesel fuel injection repair facility (and is the ONLY 100% correct way to do it). I am not trying to come across as a know-it-all, but I have worked in the diesel fuel injection repair for over 30 years and am factory trained by Bosch.

jimbote · Nov 3, 2017

dieseldrive said:
This procedure will enable you to get the hub back on the pump where it was before you removed it, but if you want to reinstall it to factory specs you'll need a dial indicator and adapter to measure plunger lift (much like we did in the old rabbit diesel days timing the pump to the engine.
The small mark on the pump housing is there so you can identify that you have the pump shaft turned to the proper cylinder before measuring lift (It is just the starting point). TO properly index the hub to the shaft (with hub already removed) make sure the shaft key slot is near the small mark on the front of the housing, install a dial indicator in place of the 12mm plug in the center of the hydraulic head. You will now need a way to grip the shaft firmly enough to turn it into its stroke (against spring pressure. I use two thin nuts jammed against each other which allows me to turn the shaft safely with a 7/8's wrench.
Now rotate the shaft a little each way until you can verify the hydraulic head plunger is at BDC and zero your indicator hear. Now rotate the shaft clockwise until you get .85mm plunger lift; tighten your shaft locking bolt (the long 10mm bolt referenced in the original post) just enough to hold the shaft in this exact position (don't overtighten this bolt). Remove the two nuts that you turned the shaft with, clean the shaft and hub tapers very well (I usually lightly scuff the tapers with some 320 grit sandpaper just to be sure, then rinse it again with brake cleaner). Now install your hub and nut loosley, then insert your timing lock pin through the hub and into the pump housing (just like you were installing the pump on the engine. Now you can snug up the hub nut just enough to start to lock it onto the shaft (don't torque the nut yet because you will bend your timing lock pin and/or damage to pump housing. Remove the locking pin now and using the proper hub holding tool, torque the nut to 59 foot lbs and loosen the 10 mm shaft tension bolt (could have been removed after your pre-torque).
To recheck your work just rotate the hub until the hub alignment pin can be inserted fully and verify that your plunger lift is .85 mm plus or minus .05mm.
This above is the proper procedure to index the hub according to Bosch and is how it is done in a diesel fuel injection repair facility (and is the ONLY 100% correct way to do it). I am not trying to come across as a know-it-all, but I have worked in the diesel fuel injection repair for over 30 years and am factory trained by Bosch.

of course that's the "right" way to do it but my way is also 100% OK because you can dial the pump in perfectly with vcds and still have plenty of adjustment in the slots .... now tell me why i'm wrong .... the bosch way gets it right on the bench, my way gets it right on the vehicle.... and it may be .5 mm different in the slots when both are up and running perfectly but what difference does it make? other than you can say "i did it by the bosch method" ... so what? we arrived at the same place and i didnt need a dial indicator

dieseldrive · Nov 3, 2017

jimbote said:
of course that's the "right" way to do it but my way is also 100% OK because you can dial the pump in perfectly with vcds and still have plenty of adjustment in the slots .... now tell me why i'm wrong .... the bosch way gets it right on the bench, my way gets it right on the vehicle.... and it may be .5 mm different in the slots when both are up and running perfectly but what difference does it make? other than you can say "i did it by the bosch method" ... so what? we arrived at the same place and i didnt need a dial indicator

I am not going to tell you you are wrong, but I will try to explain that BASE TIMING STILL MATTERS (the position of the hub on the shaft). While it is true that once the engine is RUNNING, the ECM will command the injection timing to where it wants it but, during engine cranking the injection timing IS determined by the position of the hub on the shaft/the pump properly installed on the engine. This is due to the FACT that at cranking speeds there is not enough fuel pressure to move the advance piston (overcome return spring pressure). In other words, it is impossible to effect cranking injection timing with software - its all mechanical/hydraulic at that point.

.5mm is a huge amount BTW, the tolerance (according to Bosch, but what do they know right) is .05mm. I am sure you realize that a diesel fuel injection pump is the most precise component in the entire automotive world (closest clearances and tolerances).

Is there anything wrong with doing things properly?

jimbote · Nov 4, 2017

dieseldrive said:
I am not going to tell you you are wrong, but I will try to explain that BASE TIMING STILL MATTERS (the position of the hub on the shaft). While it is true that once the engine is RUNNING, the ECM will command the injection timing to where it wants it but, during engine cranking the injection timing IS determined by the position of the hub on the shaft/the pump properly installed on the engine. This is due to the FACT that at cranking speeds there is not enough fuel pressure to move the advance piston (overcome return spring pressure). In other words, it is impossible to effect cranking injection timing with software - its all mechanical/hydraulic at that point.
.5mm is a huge amount BTW, the tolerance (according to Bosch, but what do they know right) is .05mm. I am sure you realize that a diesel fuel injection pump is the most precise component in the entire automotive world (closest clearances and tolerances).
Is there anything wrong with doing things properly?

stupifying .... as long as the bolts are in the slots and timing is where you want it in the graph you can put the hub wherever you want on the shaft and it will still fuel exactly where it's supposed to .... and if you insist otherwise there is a serious lack of spatial comprehension going on where you're concerned... i have no problem with you doing it your way but the position of slot in the hub in relation to the shaft is COMPLETELY irrelevant to SOI ... SOI is determined by the relationship between the plunger and the crankshaft ... in the micro, when YOU bosch bench a pump, sure it has to be dead nuts on, because mr bosch says so, but in the real macro world, workbench assembling as i do, and the slot being off a smidge to the plunger, it does not make any difference whatsoever, because we don't set dynamic timing with the slot, we set it with vcds, which on the backside is as good or better than dial indicating ...please wrap your head around that before bashing my shadetree method

JETaah · Nov 5, 2017

dieseldrive said:
I am not going to tell you you are wrong, but I will try to explain that BASE TIMING STILL MATTERS (the position of the hub on the shaft). While it is true that once the engine is RUNNING, the ECM will command the injection timing to where it wants it but, during engine cranking the injection timing IS determined by the position of the hub on the shaft/the pump properly installed on the engine. This is due to the FACT that at cranking speeds there is not enough fuel pressure to move the advance piston (overcome return spring pressure). In other words, it is impossible to effect cranking injection timing with software - its all mechanical/hydraulic at that point.

.5mm is a huge amount BTW, the tolerance (according to Bosch, but what do they know right) is .05mm. I am sure you realize that a diesel fuel injection pump is the most precise component in the entire automotive world (closest clearances and tolerances).

Is there anything wrong with doing things properly?

To me, having the hub's index pin inserted where it should go just helps to be able to start the car for the first time after belt service or pump replacement. I find that it will get the timing close to the blue line on the graph on a new or non-worn out pump. The timing is seldom left there anyway when serviced here.
On the AHU/1Z pump you don't even have that advantage even though the shaft is keyed to the hub. You have to estimate where to locate the pump mount bolts in the slots. The pulley pin is there just to get the belt on the closest tooth choice. It does not seem that critical to be counting hundreds of a millimeter of plunger lift in a practical sense. There is always VCDS - basic settings to see where #3 injector says to adjust it.

ALH IP front shaft seal replacement pictorial with subtitles ;)...

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