The most powerful 2.5tdi V6

doktorec

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
bulgaria
TDI
AUDI A4B6 AKE(compound in progress)audi a6 AFB(+30% custom nozzles GTX hybrid 2.3bar) golf4 AJM(+300% Biggest PD nozzles gt1756gtx-2.2bar)
I'm seaching for the most powerful and tuned 2.5 tdi v6 engine.I searched the forum and the most powerful is 266hp 600nm.
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Why not??
They are pretty rare compared to the 1.9tdi and therefore not that much knowledge about tuning up. Also 2.5tdis are pretty expensive to to keep and maintance again compared to 1.9tdis. In US those eninges were never available.
 

cog

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Location
MIDDLESBROUGH... U.K
TDI
98 GT.TDI 11O
i think steve (mojogoes) had a 2.5 tdi audi he was never very complimentary about it to say the least. they are very expensive to get good power, id say stick with a tune . if you want more get a 3.0 tdi stock 240hp.
 

doktorec

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
bulgaria
TDI
AUDI A4B6 AKE(compound in progress)audi a6 AFB(+30% custom nozzles GTX hybrid 2.3bar) golf4 AJM(+300% Biggest PD nozzles gt1756gtx-2.2bar)
i have AFB and I am wondering what can I sqeez from it.... i read about 1.9 twin turbo but nothing about 2.5 twin.Why people want to tune the smaller engine.??
 

mojogoes

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
england
TDI
mk3 tdi golf
Yeah just stick to a first stage tune with a reputable company like AMD and others
Hey Cog in the future you could go for the bmw 123d twin turbo 2.0L with 204hp 255hp with a remap:rolleyes:
 
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adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
i have AFB and I am wondering what can I sqeez from it.... i read about 1.9 twin turbo but nothing about 2.5 twin.Why people want to tune the smaller engine.??
There was a twin turbo 2.5 tdi in slovakia some time ago- i think it was a profituning creation- with opel turbochargers, about 400 Bhp race tune (300-350Bhp reliable). I had one with a 3L block,psi tuning chip and a hybrid turbo a few years ago- 254bhp (i still have the engine in a FWD a6 saloon allthough detuned: stock 180Bhp turbo and no chip or injectors-still spinns the wheels in 3rd gear !), i am driving now a mildly tuned a4 quattro with a 180Bhp AKE engine,rs4 rear diff,ATE 4 pots brakes/rs4 rear brakes, iveco nozzles and a PSI chip, about 220-240 Bhp. Working to fit a KKK turbo off the 3L tdi engine and looking for Bosio race 683 nozzles as well ! I also have a a6 tdi quattro on wich i have rebuilt the engine twice (first due to worn cams, 2nd time due to cheappo Dayco cambelt snapping and wrecking the engine). Now the AKE is boasting mildly polished Brand New heads, thicker 3 notches head gaskets, Steinbauer P-Box, the injector pump has been rebuilt and i am fitting a GT2559v off a renault 3L dci. This is me tow car and is regularly towing a 3.5 T car trailer. The a4 dances circles round the a6 though as its 200Kg lighter. The thing is the v6 tdi isnt that loved in uk (grease monkeys find it difficult to work on ?!) and there isnt much stuff of the shelf. Most tunners say the injector pump is the limiting factor on the v6- i beg to differ- there are cummins trucks who run modded VP44 pumps wich can supply fuel up to 1000Bhp. Also i know that the same pump has been used on Jcb and MAN trucks (allthough they have a 24v ECU) so these should supply decent fuel to a hungry 6L v6/v8 engine ! The 24v are also rarely failing unlike the 12v Bosch computers ! There are no aftermarket cams for it and the audi heads are overengineered so there isn't much to improve on. The only thing i would upgrade is the inlet manifold but isnt easy to do as the injectors hard lines are running over it. Fit a bigger FMIC and you will be good to go !
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Heads are the worst engineering on these engines imho. Intake ports are pretty much just above ****. Too much swirling that stops the airflow into the engine. I'm currently working with the new heads to my AKN...there're some pictures here: http://evvk.1g.fi/kuvat/Diudi/kansiremppa/ With little basic porting those heads will flow even the valves are small size! :) Stock ones are pretty much maxed out around 280-300hp.

I'm currently having problems to get some power out due missing compression about 8bars. But still it produces atm 165kw/460nm.


current dyno
current run
 
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adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Heads are overengineered in such a way that there isnt much to improve on, they have been designed for a purpose and for the 200BHP or so they flow pretty well. They could have left much more meat or design the intake a bit larger but- on a turbocharged engine- its easier to turn up the boost. What i have noticed, the AKE runs much hotter than the older AKN/AFB engines and thats detrimental to any performance. Do not forget that the v6 tdi had a high output from a smallish displacement wich kept-up with the oposition (bmw barely mustered 184Bhp out of a 3 L CR and lets not mention the mercedes) pretty well. The same can be said about the pd engine, it kept up long enough with the competition so they were the last to switch to CR... Some said that the 2.5 inline 5 was the best engine VAG came up with and the v6 was developed (to replace the dated AEL engine) as a more compact engine with bags of torque ! They had the 3.3 L tdi CR in the audi a8 since 98 but the market wasnt ready for big economical diesel engines in such up-market models (the 3.3 D was the flagship engine in the all alloy audi a8 limousine )...
 

im570rm

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Location
Romania
TDI
Audi a6 avant 2.5 tdi quattro
i like it...ake with 2260vk and race 683 works really well...don't know how many hp but it's pretty fast way faster then a a4 3.0 tdi not tuned.
Wierd thing is that somebody said to me that race 683 nozzles works only on 150hp injectors...i made them work on ake injectors but the opening pressure was a little high 280 bars.
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Heads are overengineered in such a way that there isnt much to improve on, ...
That's incorrect. With little time on porting desk and flowdesk we improved about 20% flowing with stock valve lift. And now we have heads that flow 40hp more than the stock ones as measured in naturally aspired.
Now the result is that we can take advance of more boost.
 

cog

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Location
MIDDLESBROUGH... U.K
TDI
98 GT.TDI 11O
Yeah just stick to a first stage tune with a reputable company like AMD and others
Hey Cog in the future you could go for the bmw 123d twin turbo 2.0L with 204hp 255hp with a remap:rolleyes:
i would if it came with a bigger boot:D

it was on the shopping list when i noticed they tune up to 270bhp on stock turbos and injectors. in such a small car would be great. but with a boot smaller than my john thomas , its hardly a family vehicle .
they cant half go though;)
 

hatemi

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Location
Finland
TDI
Audi A6 4F 3.0TDI
If someone could get to the software in the brain of the pump we might get somewhere. These seem to act really weird. I dynoed one AKE yesterday and it got 201hp and 412nm. With both 58mg and 63mg iq... Something is limiting the injection duration to that. No smoke at all. If it would be the nozzles then it wouldn't be as drastic limit.
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
There are some sneaky limiters on ecu that you need modify. ;)
 

Mikkijayne

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Devon, UK
TDI
Audi S8
The 2.5 V6 is a disaster in my opinion
Amen to that! Its a turbocharged boat anchor.

The fact that no one will share any info about what those damn Iveco nozzles are doesn't make it any easier to diy tune either.

Long live the 1.9 I4 :p
 

mojogoes

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
england
TDI
mk3 tdi golf
TurboDynamics do a hybrid that drops straight in called the MD438 hybrid and together with the B.683's gives around 265hp if you can get your hands on a set!

I totally agree with adamss24 about the VP44 ip as its definitely not the weakest link by far , the main trouble here Adam as you probably well know is getting someone to modify this pump and other pumps over oem spec's all they want to do is say "modify the pumps son no we just put them back to Bosch spec's" but there are a couple of company's out there still prepared to do something over oe.
 

fjtwelve

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Location
Falmouth, England
TDI
2001 Audi 2.5TDi A6 Avant 180hp modified 2004 A4 Avant 1.9TDi quattro Sport 130hp + Superchip, 1997 Audi A4 TDI SE 90hp now sold
I am arranging to go back into celtic to see if the 3" exhaust takes us any further. If with bigger nozzles, hybrid turbo and a remap we get 266hp, basically bolt on extras, surely someone who into heavy modification can get further.
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Amen to that! Its a turbocharged boat anchor.

The fact that no one will share any info about what those damn Iveco nozzles are doesn't make it any easier to diy tune either.

Long live the 1.9 I4 :p
I dont dislike them at all ! I had a few v6 tdi's and even high mileage ones did not give me any troubles. I do buy them most with engine troubles as spares or repair. The last one i bought broke the cambelt after i replaced the cams/lifters and trust pads due to a cheap Dayco belt wich was previously fitted by a garage for the last owner. It only had 1000 miles on it when i got the car so i did not replace the belt, shure enough it broke and it gave me loads of fun 3k after the rebuilt. Funny though, no valves were bent and it let go at 80-100 Mph. The early design with rocker arms is safer as the moving pistons will hit the valves and the rocker shatters thus saving the valve train. The valves are kept shut by the springs and if you dont re-start the engine there isnt much to break... I have just bought a cheap allroad v6 tdi last night and it looks that i'm gonna get my hands dirty again- no engine trouble but susp. arms, brake pads and cv joints needed for the Mot. I had a few 1.9 Tdi and they are too rough for my liking + a good v6 tdi engine really shifts when pushed hard and god it sounds good for a derv ! The drivetrain is built to take the torque of the engine unlike the 1.9 wich is not propper engineered for big power hikes. I was thinking to buy a 1.9 Tdi quattro a4 (b5 shape) and do some tweaks on it but it would require too much work to make it feasible: 6 speed 01E gearbox transplant, 244mm clutch and much more. I even built the engine pretty well but had found no decent car to put-it in ! On the other hand the b5 a4 v6 tdi quattro wich i also have its a wolf in sheeps clothes: rs4 rear diff/subframe/suspenssion/brakes, front 4 pot calipers and 330mm discs, 180Bhp AKE engine with some tweaks, s4 front/rear bumpers and much more. Next is to strip the car off its unvanted front seats and replace them with Konig bucket seats ! I just had a 4 wheel alignment at Wheels in Motion and it totaly transformed the car ! Next is a respray and maybe a full stripped interior.





 
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doktorec

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
bulgaria
TDI
AUDI A4B6 AKE(compound in progress)audi a6 AFB(+30% custom nozzles GTX hybrid 2.3bar) golf4 AJM(+300% Biggest PD nozzles gt1756gtx-2.2bar)
What's the price of "rs4 rear diff/subframe/suspenssion" and will it fit an A6?
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
I'm seaching for the most powerful and tuned 2.5 tdi v6 engine.I searched the forum and the most powerful is 266hp 600nm.
The 2.5 V6 tdi was never offered in the USA or Canada.

The most powerful stock engine was 220 bhp.

The 3.0 is a much better engine with stock power of 240 hp.
 

MJF

Active member
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Location
Oulainen, Finland
TDI
A6q 2,5 V6, 80q 1,9TDI
There was a twin turbo 2.5 tdi in slovakia some time ago- i think it was a profituning creation- with opel turbochargers, about 400 Bhp race tune (300-350Bhp reliable). I had one with a 3L block,psi tuning chip and a hybrid turbo a few years ago- 254bhp (i still have the engine in a FWD a6 saloon allthough detuned: stock 180Bhp turbo and no chip or injectors-still spinns the wheels in 3rd gear !), i am driving now a mildly tuned a4 quattro with a 180Bhp AKE engine,rs4 rear diff,ATE 4 pots brakes/rs4 rear brakes, iveco nozzles and a PSI chip, about 220-240 Bhp. Working to fit a KKK turbo off the 3L tdi engine and looking for Bosio race 683 nozzles as well ! I also have a a6 tdi quattro on wich i have rebuilt the engine twice (first due to worn cams, 2nd time due to cheappo Dayco cambelt snapping and wrecking the engine). Now the AKE is boasting mildly polished Brand New heads, thicker 3 notches head gaskets, Steinbauer P-Box, the injector pump has been rebuilt and i am fitting a GT2559v off a renault 3L dci. This is me tow car and is regularly towing a 3.5 T car trailer. The a4 dances circles round the a6 though as its 200Kg lighter. The thing is the v6 tdi isnt that loved in uk (grease monkeys find it difficult to work on ?!) and there isnt much stuff of the shelf. Most tunners say the injector pump is the limiting factor on the v6- i beg to differ- there are cummins trucks who run modded VP44 pumps wich can supply fuel up to 1000Bhp. Also i know that the same pump has been used on Jcb and MAN trucks (allthough they have a 24v ECU) so these should supply decent fuel to a hungry 6L v6/v8 engine ! The 24v are also rarely failing unlike the 12v Bosch computers ! There are no aftermarket cams for it and the audi heads are overengineered so there isn't much to improve on. The only thing i would upgrade is the inlet manifold but isnt easy to do as the injectors hard lines are running over it. Fit a bigger FMIC and you will be good to go !
Will Cummins monster pumps fit to 2,5? Where is stock pump limiting power? How much will stock con rods handle? Thinking of twin vnt:s and 400+hp :lol:
 

adamss24

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Location
Great Britain
TDI
audi a4 2.5 tdi 98 quatrro 6speed
Will Cummins monster pumps fit to 2,5? Where is stock pump limiting power? How much will stock con rods handle? Thinking of twin vnt:s and 400+hp :lol:
The Cummins pump does fit the same way as the VP44 pumps fitted to the audi's. Rods will handle up to 500Bhp and the bottom end is allready strong enough with girdle to keep-it in one piece. You will need to lower the CR though and by doing so you might experience hard starts if timing is not adjusted accordingly. Its not the Bhp you need to worry but the torque as 250-300 Bhp will get 600Nm very easy and there are not many aftermarket parts out there for them...for once the clutch wont take-it without complaining. Twin 1852 turbochargers from the opel DTI 2.2 L will do that nicely...
 
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