Frustrated with MKIV

JettaTDISportwagon · Apr 3, 2017

I can not for the life of me figure out why My jetta wont start. Ive replaced the 109 relay, primed the fuel pump checked fuses. ....Nothing just cranks and cranks. Ive checked the fuel lines no leaks. Ive replaced the fuel sending unit in the tank. No luck! Ugh this car is really starting to tick me off.

Any suggestions I may have missed?

jettawreck · Apr 3, 2017

When/why did the no-start situation begin??
Is it getting fuel yet?? Any smoke from exhaust while cranking??
It can be a challenge sometimes to get the injector lines bled of air after having the fuel system open. If you have an injector line(s) open at the injector body there should be a good amount of fuel being pumped out each firing stroke. If it's just a "spurt", there is still air in the system.
If you are getting plenty of fuel, then perhaps it's a timing issue.

Vince Waldon · Apr 3, 2017

Troubleshooting Step One should (almost) always be: track down someone with VCDS and scan for codes.

More often than not the car has some clues there for the taking.

JettaTDISportwagon · Apr 3, 2017

I'm getting a 17570 code from the vagcom fuel temp sensor short to ground

I'm getting spurts of diesel when I try to start it. This seems to be a frustrating intermittent issue. This started when I would run out of fuel at half tank. I replaced the tank sending unit and it ran fine for a couple weeks until I hit the halfway mark on my fuel gage. I had around 170 miles on my trip dial so I'm sure I'm not out of fuel. I then re primed the system after changing the fuel filter and it ran fine. The next day no start. I changed out the. 109 relay just for the peace of mind. The fuel pump is an 11mm pump less then two years old. I would be surprised if it's my fuel temperature sensor.

eddieleephd · Apr 3, 2017

Pull the cap and see what you see.
About the only way I know to rule it out.

derek5120 · Apr 3, 2017

You can check your fuel temp sensor for resistance, google "vw injection pump pin out" Check pin 4 to 7. Compare to this chart:

jettawreck · Apr 3, 2017

Make positive it's not out of fuel. Pull the access cover and take a look. Seems elementary, but sometimes we lose track of things like when we last fueled up.
Or, hook up a MityVac type something and pull some serious fuel thru the lines and make sure no air bubbles coming thru there.

JettaTDISportwagon · Apr 3, 2017

Thanks guys! Fuel tank is half full from what I can see. I pulled fuel into my lines with a vac. Still no start. Ill check fuel sensor resistance tomorrow when I have some light.

bbarbulo · Apr 3, 2017

I loosen all the injector lines to bleed them off and crank. when i see diesel has come out of all of them, I tighten them all up snugly (don't go all ape on it), and I usually fire on first crank.

SmilesAndGimps · Apr 3, 2017

I am currently having the same issue! Gotten some good suggestions on this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=475798&page=2 but still no resolve...

If the fuel temp sensor is bad would it throw a code? Also I am only getting a spurt from the injectors though I've primed the lines several times, how else can I get air out of the injector lines besides cranking the starter?

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Andyinchville1 · Apr 3, 2017

On a Cummins a possible no start is the fuel shutoff solenoid not opening up to allow the fuel to flow into the injection pump....

There is a fuel shut off solenoid on the pump on our TDIs too....I saw it on a diagram somewhere...I'd check that.

The trick to starting one of my Pickups is to jumper a wire from the battery directly to the fuel cut off solenoid...no click means no fuel means a no start....Should work the same way on a TDI

Andrew

PS - Another trick I have done is to start the truck on wd 40....supposed to be easier on the rings etc than ether tho I have fired a 6.9 on starting fluid....go EASY on the starting fluid tho....(warning: Heater Grids / Glo Plugs may be an issue with starting fluid BUT I have not blown up.....YET ;-)

jettawreck · Apr 4, 2017

Andyinchville1 said:
On a Cummins a possible no start is the fuel shutoff solenoid not opening up to allow the fuel to flow into the injection pump....

There is a fuel shut off solenoid on the pump on our TDIs too....I saw it on a diagram somewhere...I'd check that.

The trick to starting one of my Pickups is to jumper a wire from the battery directly to the fuel cut off solenoid...no click means no fuel means a no start....Should work the same way on a TDI

Andrew

PS - Another trick I have done is to start the truck on wd 40....supposed to be easier on the rings etc than ether tho I have fired a 6.9 on starting fluid....go EASY on the starting fluid tho....(warning: Heater Grids / Glo Plugs may be an issue with starting fluid BUT I have not blown up.....YET ;-)

Do not put liquids ("flameable" or otherwise) into a TDI. Other than the explosion hazard, you can also hydrolock it and bend a rod(s). The "squish" volume in these little high compression engines is very small and there is no extra room for any non-compressible materials.
If the mechanical issues are correct it will start. Air, compression, and fuel (at the right time).
I don't think a bad fuel temp sensor will cause a no start if the injection timing is/was already anywhere near correct as during starting the ECU goes into basic mode until it's actually "running".

steve6 · Apr 4, 2017

what year is your mkiv?

JettaTDISportwagon · Apr 4, 2017

Its a 2000 Jetta TDI. Ive bleed the injectors several times. If I had a clogged injector would this cause a no start? So puzzled by this. How about my pump relay under the dash. Would this cause this? I did jump the shut off switch and could hear it clicking.

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 4, 2017

Speculating here, but I think your IP is not working.

JettaTDISportwagon · Apr 4, 2017

I hope not it was replaced less then two years ago with an upgraded 11mm pump. How would I rule this out?

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 4, 2017

You could try suspending a bottle of fuel and see if it'll run on that. Eliminates the work of pulling fuel from the tank. May or may not work. And of course if that's not the issue it's not going to run.

Ryan_m83 · Apr 4, 2017

Hook it up to a truck and pull it around in 2nd gear. Any air in the lines will get pushed through. If it don't start then you have bigger issues.

Vince Waldon · Apr 4, 2017

JettaTDISportwagon said:
I hope not it was replaced less then two years ago with an upgraded 11mm pump.

Unfortunately there's no easy way to test an IP without a proper flow bench.

That said, where did your upgraded 11mm pump come from?

JettaTDISportwagon · Apr 4, 2017

I purchased the car from the original owner last year. The timing belt broke on him so he had the head rebuilt along with a new timing belt and water pump. He also replaced the fuel pump at that time. He had the paperwork for what was done on the car. It was a local mechanic that did all of the work.

BobnOH · Apr 4, 2017

And it's been running fine until now?

JettaTDISportwagon · Apr 4, 2017

Yes. With the exception of the car not starting after I drove below half a tank. I've replaced the fuel sending unit and it still will not start if Im below half a tank. I verified that as of now the tank is almost full.

jettawreck · Apr 4, 2017

Have you verified the current state/condition of the TB system?? Lots of "mechanics" do the tensioner wrong and/or use junk parts that fail much sooner than scheduled.

steve6 · Apr 4, 2017

jettawreck said:
Have you verified the current state/condition of the TB system?? Lots of "mechanics" do the tensioner wrong and/or use junk parts that fail much sooner than scheduled.

THIS

you can eliminate the tank/lines and just run a hose into a jerry can full of diesel if you want, maybe you got some shiot fuel.

Vince Waldon · Apr 4, 2017

It would be good to know where the mechanic sourced the replacement pump, since this certainly sounds like a pump-related issue, since the pump is pretty much the entire fuel system on an ALH, and really the only part that would be sensitive to full tank vs. half-tank.

There are good pump vendors, and pump vendors known to sell extremely poor quality parts.

Seeing if you can get the engine to start from a suspended jug at this point would be a good test to run, too, IMHO. If so, pretty much points to the vane pump internal to the IP or a subtle restriction in the line somewhere back to the tank.

BobnOH · Apr 4, 2017

JettaTDISportwagon said:
Yes. With the exception of the car not starting after I drove below half a tank. I've replaced the fuel sending unit and it still will not start if Im below half a tank. I verified that as of now the tank is almost full.

So, since you've had it, it refuses to start if less than 1/2 a tank?
The 11mm pump was new, used, rebuilt?

<add> I see you've owned the car 1 year, pump replaced 2 years ago, so it's pedigreed may be unknown

Andyinchville1 · Apr 4, 2017

jettawreck said:
Do not put liquids ("flameable" or otherwise) into a TDI. Other than the explosion hazard, you can also hydrolock it and bend a rod(s). The "squish" volume in these little high compression engines is very small and there is no extra room for any non-compressible materials.
If the mechanical issues are correct it will start. Air, compression, and fuel (at the right time).
I don't think a bad fuel temp sensor will cause a no start if the injection timing is/was already anywhere near correct as during starting the ECU goes into basic mode until it's actually "running".

True about the liquids things and the TDI's or diesels in general for that matter....By WD 40 I meant the spray not the liquid in the big jugs....I forgot they came both ways.

Andrew

Nevada_TDI · Apr 5, 2017

Even though I may get flamed for saying this here goes: almost a decade ago when I was shopping to buy a tdi, there were posts on the internet stating the 2000 model Jetta tdi's had a half-tank-of-fuel starting issue. Below a 1/2 tank they would not start; the theory was it is such a hassle to re-prime a ve pump, VWOA wrote into the ECU's a bad piece of code. The dealers were getting overrun with angry owners whose cars would not start. It may not apply to you but you twice mention a 1/2 tank of fuel and a no start issue. I hope you able to resolve this issue soon.

BobnOH · Apr 5, 2017

Nevada_TDI said:
Even though I may get flamed for saying this here goes: almost a decade ago when I was shopping to buy a tdi, there were posts on the internet stating the 2000 model Jetta tdi's had a half-tank-of-fuel starting issue. Below a 1/2 tank they would not start; the theory was it is such a hassle to re-prime a ve pump, VWOA wrote into the ECU's a bad piece of code. The dealers were getting overrun with angry owners whose cars would not start. It may not apply to you but you twice mention a 1/2 tank of fuel and a no start issue. I hope you able to resolve this issue soon.

No ones gonna flame that, good information, worth researching a bit further for the cause and solution.

IndigoBlueWagon · Apr 5, 2017

I think owners were confusing the hard hot start issue with fuel level. '99.5s had a known problem that they wouldn't easily start when warm.

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