FIX approved!!!!!

sohccammer427

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Location
Eastern North Carolina
TDI
2015 Passat SE TDi 6 Speed Manual
A second phase of the fix will start about a year from now when VW will install more software updates and new hardware, including a diesel particulate filter, diesel oxidation catalyst and NOx catalyst.
.
Any comments on exactly why a new DPF? and the other new hardware?
Will this be major surgery?
.
Also I'd ask everyone to dissect APPENDIX B VEHICLE RECALL AND EMISSIONS MODIFICATION PROGRAM. it spells out the specifics of the warranty. If the DPF fails it has to be related to the fix at hand. Not so much if it becomes "full" from normal use.
.
3.9.1 The Emissions Control System warranty must cover all components which are replaced as part of the Approved Emissions Modification and any component which can reasonably be impacted by effects of the Approved Emissions Modification, such as increased thermal load or cycling, increased soot load, increased use of EGR, increased DPF regeneration, and increased fuel injection pressure.
.
Here is the appendix.
.
http://www.scdhec.gov/HomeAndEnvironment/Docs/Air/20161025_VWAppxB.pdf
 

tvmaster

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2010
Location
Socal
TDI
2010 JSW
For most 2015 that should still be covered under warranty, no?
might be, sorry - I'm driving a 2010 JSW with 81k on it. At 78k the HPFP exploded, leaving us stranded for a night. At 80.5k, the DPF started to go as well. Warranty expires at 80k.

VW paid for the HPFP, but refused to pay for the DPF (which was likely already damaged at the same time as the HPFP, but they slyly kept quiet, hoping we'd pass the 80k warranty time, which of course we did, by 500 miles.)

And judging from the fact there's an entire thread on DPF failures, I'd say my grasp on reality is quite stable, thanks to whoever asked :)

Can I drive the car for 18 months with a check engine light flashing on and off?
Maybe, but if the continuing DPF failure caused another breakdown, or just failed altogether, i'm not sure that's a repair I'd like to fund, given the options.

I was hoping a gen 1 fix would have come along by now to give us defrauded owners options, but at the moment, there really only is one option.
 

cane929

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Location
FL
TDI
2015 GSW TDI DSG S
might be, sorry - I'm driving a 2010 JSW with 81k on it. At 78k the HPFP exploded, leaving us stranded for a night. At 80.5k, the DPF started to go as well. Warranty expires at 80k.
VW paid for the HPFP, but refused to pay for the DPF (which was likely already damaged at the same time as the HPFP, but they slyly kept quiet, hoping we'd pass the 80k warranty time, which of course we did, by 500 miles.)
And judging from the fact there's an entire thread on DPF failures, I'd say my grasp on reality is quite stable, thanks to whoever asked :)
Can I drive the car for 18 months with a check engine light flashing on and off?
Maybe, but if the continuing DPF failure caused another breakdown, or just failed altogether, i'm not sure that's a repair I'd like to fund, given the options.
I was hoping a gen 1 fix would have come along by now to give us defrauded owners options, but at the moment, there really only is one option.
I see your points there, and if mine was a 2010 with 81K i would be doing the buyback asap. For some of us 2015 owners its a harder decision. I am planning on waiting all the way to the end, there is some risk but so is everything else in life.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
A second phase of the fix will start about a year from now when VW will install more software updates and new hardware, including a diesel particulate filter, diesel oxidation catalyst and NOx catalyst.
.
Any comments on exactly why a new DPF? and the other new hardware?
Will this be major surgery?
On the EA288, the diesel oxidation catalyst and the DPF/SCR catalyst (which are one single element) are both in a one-piece assembly module on the back of the engine. It's all welded into one piece. You can't replace any of them without replacing all of them (barring cutting and welding). As for why they are replacing them ... we don't know exactly, but it's either because something within that module is not capable of lasting the full required 150,000 mile life, or because the one they are putting in is better or different in some way than the original one.

It has been posted elsewhere that the phase 2 fix is supposed to be a 9 hour job. Look at where that emission control module is installed in the vehicle. It's on the back of the engine between the engine and firewall, underneath the turbo, above the driveshafts and steering rack and subframe cross-member. Replacing it looks like a bear of a job. It wouldn't surprise me if you have to drop the subframe in order to get enough room to do it.

Also I'd ask everyone to dissect APPENDIX B VEHICLE RECALL AND EMISSIONS MODIFICATION PROGRAM. it spells out the specifics of the warranty. If the DPF fails it has to be related to the fix at hand. Not so much if it becomes "full" from normal use.
.
3.9.1 The Emissions Control System warranty must cover all components which are replaced as part of the Approved Emissions Modification and any component which can reasonably be impacted by effects of the Approved Emissions Modification, such as increased thermal load or cycling, increased soot load, increased use of EGR, increased DPF regeneration, and increased fuel injection pressure.
Keep reading. There indeed was a statement that the DPF had to be covered if it related to the fix and was not due to "normal" ash buildup, BUT, VW had to come up with a reliable and consistent way for dealers to identify whether a DPF failure was due to "normal" ash buildup or was due to the fix, and if they couldn't come up with such a method that was practical at the dealer-mechanic level, they had to cover the DPF no matter what. And, there's a statement in that warranty to the effect that any uncertainties or interpretation issues were to be resolved in favour of the consumer.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You can have the entire subframe, control arms, steering gear and all, out of an A5, A6, NCS, or NMS car in about 15 minutes, including the time it take to set the car on the lift. Super easy.

Hardest part of dealing with the DPF assembly is the sensors and tubes and such.
 

sohccammer427

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Location
Eastern North Carolina
TDI
2015 Passat SE TDi 6 Speed Manual
Thanks Brian... Very informative and as always spot on.
.
It has been posted elsewhere that the phase 2 fix is supposed to be a 9 hour job. Look at where that emission control module is installed in the vehicle. It's on the back of the engine between the engine and firewall, underneath the turbo, above the driveshafts and steering rack and subframe cross-member. Replacing it looks like a bear of a job. It wouldn't surprise me if you have to drop the subframe in order to get enough room to do it.
.
:eek: Well as long as it's going to be covered going forward, I'll let them have at it. And I believe any work taking > 3 hours would necessitate a loaner being provided per the ruling.
.
And then there's this which means a lot:
.
M. Defendant must reoffer and provide a Buyback or Lease Termination to any Eligible Owner or Eligible Lessee of a Modified Vehicle in the event that, during the 18 months or 18,000 miles (whichever occurs first) following the completion of the Approved Emissions Modification (the “Reoffer Period”):
.
a. the Warrantable Failure is unable to be remedied after making 4
separate service visits for the same Warrantable Failure during the
Reoffer Period; or
.
b. the Modified Vehicle with the Warrantable Failure is out of service (in an inoperable condition) due to the Warrantable Failure for a cumulative total of 30 days during the Reoffer Period. For avoidance of doubt, a Modified Vehicle shall not be deemed “out of service” when, after diagnosing the Warrantable Failure, the Volkswagen Dealer (or other entity authorized by Defendant)
returns or tenders the Modified Vehicle to the customer while the Volkswagen Dealer (or other entity authorized by Defendant) awaits necessary parts for the Warrantable Failure and the Modified Vehicle remains Operable.
 

sohccammer427

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Location
Eastern North Carolina
TDI
2015 Passat SE TDi 6 Speed Manual
You can have the entire subframe, control arms, steering gear and all, out of an A5, A6, NCS, or NMS car in about 15 minutes, including the time it take to set the car on the lift. Super easy.
Hardest part of dealing with the DPF assembly is the sensors and tubes and such.
.
Now that's encouraging. :D
.
I've opted for the fix so I guess I'll be hearing from VW at some point soon. I like the car and there is no other car out there that does what it does in terms of performance/fuel economy.
.
So going back to the first phase, the software tweak. I wonder if that is just a def increase, or changing the timing or something else. Do you think that VW will release the specifics at some point of exactly what will be done?
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
There's been enough speculative posts on what it encompasses that you can make some reasonable guesses.
 

jjm

Active member
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Location
Maine
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SE; 2017 Golf TSI Wolfsburg (replaced 2012 Golf Hatch (Bought back by VW)
For clarification, one could go ahead with Fix part 1 and still revert to a buyback prior to getting part 2?
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I do not believe that is the case. Once your fix process starts, you are committed to that course of action. The only "out" is a type of lemon-law provision, but that's out of your control.

If you are indecisive ... delay phase 1 until you decide. Then DECIDE.
 

senez

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
15 Passat DSG
Really wish the details of the warranty coverage had been detailed earlier. Likely would've changed my decision. Alas...
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
You didn't have to make the buyback decision so soon - you have until well into 2018 to make a decision....
 

Armby

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Location
Ottawa, Canada
TDI
2013 Golf
You didn't have to make the buyback decision so soon - you have until well into 2018 to make a decision....
And you could have read the settlement docs which described the warranty parameters. However you might have been too busy listening to the unfounded speculation that there was definitely not going to be any fixes.
 

Funguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Location
Front Range of Colorado
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen dsg and 2015 Passat 6 M/T
Really wish the details of the warranty coverage had been detailed earlier. Likely would've changed my decision. Alas...
It isn't all that bad. You got a great price with the restitution thrown in on top of that. With a little luck you may be able to buy one of the "fixed" cars from a dealer's inventory for a great price!
 
Top