Water pump failure

frank_golf · Jul 28, 2005

I own a 2002 Golf TDI and last night while driving home, it began to overheat. The dealer diagnosed it as a failed water pump. They say the water pump has a plastic impeller and the impeller was just spinning on the shaft, so there wasn't any coolant circulation. The car has just under 70K miles so of course it's no longer under warranty. The car has been serviced at the regular 5k intervals and has never had a cooling system problem (including leaks) of any kind. I've checked the TDI Club's forums and didn't find anything about this issue. The dealer claims they've seen this particular water pump problem a 'few' times.
A plastic impeller on the metal shaft of water pump? It seems to me that this is a very 'break-downable' part. Has anyone else seen this particular problem and diagnosis? Any comments about it in general?

Thanks,
Frank from San Diego

jasonTDI · Jul 28, 2005

While on VW's they don't fail that ofter other manufacturers have had huge issues with this. Just replace it with the metal impeller GRAF unit and you will solve that issue. You might as well have them or better yet someone here do the TB at the same time since you are probably due for that as well. All of it needs to come apart to do the pump.

VelvetFoot · Jul 28, 2005

I haven't had any problems and my first plastic pump lasted 140k miles.

Metal Man · Jul 28, 2005

I've replaced a few pumps because of this.I have the GRAF pumps with the metal impeller available.

Harvieux · Jul 28, 2005

Laso WP's has turned to a brass impellar, Graf is stainless but, Geba has the composite impellar. I now exclusively use the Geba because Pete (Drivebiwire) told me the circulation flow would be better with composite and if I remember correctly, he may of said cavitation would be less. Later!

whatnxt · Jul 28, 2005

I had the water pump replace on my '03 Golf at 49k. The Dealer also replaced the TB and idler bearing at the same time. They said that the belt was soaked. All done under warranty.

whitedog · Jul 28, 2005

I own a 2002 Golf TDI and last night while driving home, it began to overheat. The dealer diagnosed it as a failed water pump. They say the water pump has a plastic impeller and the impeller was just spinning on the shaft, so there wasn't any coolant circulation. The car has just under 70K miles so of course it's no longer under warranty. The car has been serviced at the regular 5k intervals and has never had a cooling system problem (including leaks) of any kind. I've checked the TDI Club's forums and didn't find anything about this issue. The dealer claims they've seen this particular water pump problem a 'few' times.
A plastic impeller on the metal shaft of water pump? It seems to me that this is a very 'break-downable' part. Has anyone else seen this particular problem and diagnosis? Any comments about it in general?

Thanks,
Frank from San Diego

Having seen other water pumps but not one from a TDI, I wonder if the plastic was the part in contact with the shaft or if there was a metal center to the impeller. I'm not afraid of a non-metallic impeller with a metallic center, but would like to see some feedback on any nonmetallic metallic impellers with non-metallic centers.

Harvieux · Jul 28, 2005

Folks, I don't think the material of the impellar on the OEM or the Geba WP is plastic. It is a composite material. Later!

Harvieux · Jul 28, 2005

I had the water pump replace on my '03 Golf at 49k. The Dealer also replaced the TB and idler bearing at the same time. They said that the belt was soaked. All done under warranty.

whatnxt, Poop happens, TG it was covered under warranty because I rarely see this type of failure so early on. 2003 MY TDI was slated for 100K mile TB change intervals but, to date I have only replaced (2) 2003 TB assemblies due to that infamous swish, swish, swish virus. One happened to be our beloved tdiclub member and friend, Jerry (Tornado Red). Later!

Dieselgeek · Jul 29, 2005

My opinion is that you see more failures of composite impeller pumps since there are so many more of them in operation since that's what the factory uses. A certain percentage of any part will fail. A failure of a few shouldn't be generalized as common.

The Laso I sell has been virtually trouble free in the four years that I have sold them and lemme tell you that I've sold lots of them. There have been no spun impellers, no bad bearings and only two slow leakers. Almost all of them were brass but some were composite. I think longevity comes down to quality control of the individual company making them...

whatnxt · Jul 29, 2005

With my car, I don't really know if it was the water pump or just what it was. I inspected the engine very thoroughly for the nature of the Squish-squish sound that so many of us have. I saw no leaks and the belt looked fine. I took the dealer at his word as to what the "problem" was. Water leak? I saw none. Bottom line, it was fixed. That was 12K ago and no issues.

With all cars, parts are parts and some fail early on in life. As a consumer, I have to buy into that.

Dodoma · Jul 30, 2005

Overheating has many causes, including pump timing, valve lash, water pump bearing worn out, thermostat, low engine compression, etc.

treyca · Jul 31, 2005

It is time for you to do a new tb and rollers anyway, a new water pump is also standard. A failed tb may have cost you the motor. the metal impeller(Lasso) is what you get when you buy the DG 100k tb kit. the VW dealer sells the plastic impeller type which are good for only 80k

Frank M · Jul 31, 2005

The composite impeller is superior.
This is why VW and many other manufacturers use this type.

Many cooling system failures are caused by poor coolant maintenance...

Composite leaf springs, brake caliper pistons and many other items have been in service for years in both commercial and high end vehicles.

oilhammer · Jul 31, 2005

I've run across about a half dozen of these that did this, and it is very common on the Euro-Ford engines (Duratec, Zetec, even the Jaguar/Lincoln V8s).

I will not put a non-metal impeller pump in a car.

Frank, have you forgotten the horrible composite-piston calipers Ford used? These were constant money-makers for me! Stupid idea.

gearhead · Jul 31, 2005

Regarding the OEM VW impeller, i've read it's a (unspecified) type of phenolic. One type of phenolic most people are familiar is 'Bakalite', used on cooking pot, pan, & lid handles, though at least 5 different types I know of exist.

The problem with most materials is in the application engineering or lack of proper specification adherance. Some types of plastic are actually superior to metals given proper application & design parameters. However, I wonder how closely VW (or their suppliers) monitor component performance, especially past the warranty period? The long wait for the window clip fix comes to mind.

TDIJetta99 · Jul 31, 2005

I've run across about a half dozen of these that did this, and it is very common on the Euro-Ford engines (Duratec, Zetec, even the Jaguar/Lincoln V8s).

I will not put a non-metal impeller pump in a car.

Frank, have you forgotten the horrible composite-piston calipers Ford used? These were constant money-makers for me! Stupid idea.

It's funny you mention the ford calipers... I just replaced the calipers on my F-150 a few weeks ago due to one of the pistons breaking during a panic stop... It has the steel pistons now.... The old calipers were only a year old.....Junk

I've replaced a number of water pumps that the non-metal impeller has broken off.. So far most of them have been Duratecs and Zetecs... So far no TDI's... I'm due for a timing belt in about 10k so I'll find out which one mine has soon enough..

Slave2school · Aug 1, 2005

My local vw specialty shop says they get quite a few leaking plastic/composite impellered units in throughout the year, so they were happy to see the kit I got from Brian Harrison replaced it with an all metal pump

After dropping the old pmp from a couple feet off the ground and seeing it shatter into 50,000 slivers I tend to agree

Water pump failure

frank_golf

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