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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old August 9th, 2011, 19:34   #16
Honeydew
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Great work Josh!
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Old August 10th, 2011, 09:08   #17
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By the way,


Just wanted to let everyone know that this is somewhat experimental in nature, although the design has been proven/used on other vehicles. I'm still trying to figure out how to tweak the configuration for max results. Whether or not to drain to sump(like the BMW's do) vs drain to small catch can, or whether or not to bleed a small amount of boost pressure through a small(1/16"-1/8" line) to add to the inlet of the cyclonic separator to increase it's at-idle and above idle performance. All still questions I intend to answer
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
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Last edited by josh8loop; August 10th, 2011 at 14:08.
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Old August 10th, 2011, 14:18   #18
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Fellas,

Did an early(after 60 or so miles) on my separator today. While there was no drippings in the catch can, I did see evidence that the bottom part of the Cyclonic separator was wet with oil. This seems like an early indication(after 60 miles ) that it might be working. I also went ahead and attached a 1/8" bleed line from my post turbo(high pressure) to the inlet of the cyclonic separator. This will increase air volume throughput through the separator, and IMHO should help increase the separators efficiency over the operating range.


I also noticed something interesting today while playing with the setup. I didn't know when the engine is running, and you remove the CCV connection(quick disconnect) to the air intake you can feel flowing air coming OUT of the intake! Seems strange, you would think that you may feel air flowing in......, but it was flowing out? This could (perhaps limited to idle conditions) oppose the flow of air going through my cyclonic separator-in any case, I'm glad I added the high pressure bleed to help things out
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old August 10th, 2011, 17:47   #19
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I doubt the bleed air addition will do anything beneficial. The factory mist separator is very effective at low engine speeds, it is at high speeds where you have boost generated that you have high flow.

As far as the reverse flow, you probably have it during low speed operation due to flow restriction through the intercooler. And since you pulled the "puck" off, you lost the check valve which prevents back-flow.
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Old August 10th, 2011, 18:14   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_J View Post
I doubt the bleed air addition will do anything beneficial. The factory mist separator is very effective at low engine speeds, it is at high speeds where you have boost generated that you have high flow.

As far as the reverse flow, you probably have it during low speed operation due to flow restriction through the intercooler. And since you pulled the "puck" off, you lost the check valve which prevents back-flow.



I ended up taking my old puck apart, and I've got to say that design makes no sense at all! Comes in and goes out of the same side of the diaphram unimpeeded-the spring is on this side too. No apparent check valve function. There was probably 3/4" from the inlet and outlet to the diaphram, and it is just a free flowing type of setup. I would understand it if the spring were on the other side of the diaphram pushing against the inlet and outlet regulating the flow through the puck. One thing I can say is that there is however a drastic U turn of the CCV through the puck. The reverse flow was also from the pre-turbo side of the intake just down stream of the air filter. Wonder if it functions more as a flow averaging type, and helps remove high flow pressure pulsations? Maybe someone out there can shed some scientific light on this issue?
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; August 10th, 2011 at 18:22.
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Old August 13th, 2011, 15:39   #21
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Update:

I am pleasantly greated by a couple drips of oil that have accumulated in my catch container today. It has been installed for 200 miles, and for the last 120 or so I have had the air bleed from the post intercooler installed. It seems like the air bleed has helped to speed up the oil removal process by increasing the air velocity through the cyclonic separator as planned. This to me is very promising, and I expect continued fantastic results.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old August 19th, 2011, 14:45   #22
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what happens if you just block of the hole in the valve cover?
And has this shown to be more effective then a Racor CCV filter?
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Old August 19th, 2011, 14:52   #23
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If you block the hole in the valve cover, you will blow out your front and rear seals, valve cover gasket, and your turbo oil drain will not work well, due to the pressurizing of the engine internal voids from cylinder blow by and vacuum pump discharge.

This usually leads to heavy smoke out the exhaust, from the turb oil.
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Old August 19th, 2011, 20:13   #24
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OK..... Blocking bad

I like the idea of this cyclonic separator,
here are some good references

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclonic_separation

I also like the Idea of an oil centrifuge like the one below

http://www.dieselcraft.com/EngineOilCleaningOC25.php

you should attach a clear hose going to the intake so you can monitor how much oil gets past.

Last edited by seaglf; August 19th, 2011 at 22:10.
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Old August 20th, 2011, 04:21   #25
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I like the OEM setup just fine.
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Old August 20th, 2011, 12:15   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaglf View Post
what happens if you just block of the hole in the valve cover?
And has this shown to be more effective then a Racor CCV filter?



Definately don't want to block and crank case vent holes-that would be just asking or trouble I'm not sure what the performance diference of this may be compared to the Racor CCV since I haven't used Racors unit before. So far my cyclonic CCV is working pretty darn well to me






..
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old August 20th, 2011, 12:18   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaglf View Post
OK..... Blocking bad

I like the idea of this cyclonic separator,
here are some good references

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclonic_separation

I also like the Idea of an oil centrifuge like the one below

http://www.dieselcraft.com/EngineOilCleaningOC25.php

you should attach a clear hose going to the intake so you can monitor how much oil gets past.



Seems like alot of the oil is rather entrained in the air flow and is difficult to separate. That's where something like the cyclonic unit could excell. It increases the force on the entrained oil droplets, and forces them to adhere and drip down the cyclone surface.





..
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old August 20th, 2011, 12:28   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG144 View Post
I like the OEM setup just fine.



Not me!!


I just gotta "Fix Until Broke" !!





..
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old August 20th, 2011, 16:21   #29
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I am real interested in how this turns out. If BMW uses it then it must be pretty effective. The only questions being how much airflow is needed to work.

I assume that since a diesel has more compression then a gas engine that the Crankcase pressure is higher. If that's the case then there should be more then enough air flow.

I still think it would be a good idea to attach a clear hose going to the intake to see how much gets past.

Or you could get technical and attach a simple high flow filter of some kind between the cyclone and the intake, drive it for say 100 miles or more,weigh it before and after with a precise scale. then keeping the same filter put the stock set up back, drive the same miles under similar conditions and compare, to a ccv filter system like racor or some of the home made systems

either way if you are getting oil out that's not going into the intake then it is certainly better then stock. I know that when I cleaned my intake I got at least half a quart of oil from my intercooler after appx. 70,000 miles. That cant be good.

Last edited by seaglf; August 20th, 2011 at 16:26.
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Old August 20th, 2011, 16:28   #30
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I wonder if it could be routed to where it goes closer to the heads.
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