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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old July 26th, 2011, 07:38   #1
josh8loop
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Default Cyclonic action CCV Air/Oil separator fabrication

I wanted to update this Thread a bit to let new viewers know that I have abandoned the home made version of the cyclonic separator for a ready made fully functioning and cheap unit from a BMW. Scroll down to post number 10 for more details This thing works beautifully by the way!








Fellas,

Since it appears OEMs use these types of systems, they should be really easy to adapt or fabricate at home:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1062875

http://shop.jgs4x4.co.uk/land-rover-...ther-249-p.asp





Here is a Home Made unit that looks like a promising design-custom design for Smart Car application:



http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...Ocjj0QGincnyCg







Went to the local junkyard on Saturday, and acquired some various pieces for about $10.00 I didn't find a BMW Cyclonic air/oil separator like I wanted, but found enough stuff to create my own. I assembled it on Saturday, and installed it on Sunday. I have about 400 miles on it so far, and it seems to work very well. The first 80 miles(in town) or so I didn't notice anything that had started to give evidence that it was collecting. After tonights journey to pick up my father in law at the Orlando airport I had a good chance to give it a work out. Looks like I am collecting liquid oil on the Stainless Steel funnel that helps to form the cyclone in the unit. The bottom of the cyclonic unit(Drain) is "T" ed through a 3/8" rubber hose into the oil dipstick to return any collected oil to the sump. Now that I know it shows the potential to operate, I will have to install a measured collection system so I can quantify it's effectiveness.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
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Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; August 23rd, 2011 at 11:21.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 08:08   #2
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Nissan's been using catch cans like this for years on their SR20-powered Sentras and G20s, which are sadly becoming plentiful in junkyards:





Got any pictures of your setup?
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Old July 26th, 2011, 08:24   #3
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One thing to consider: Where are you going to put it? I tried an ag seperator design a few years ago. It worked OK but froze up in the winter since I mounted it behind the radiator fans. If you got something small enough to hang near the firewall you'd probably be OK. But then would it seperate? Where would it drain back to? dipstick port? Anything on the valve cover would be too high to clear the hood, no?

I just did the elephant trunk. It still freezes up in the winter but when mounted in front of the front tires its easy enough to give it a little kick to unblock it.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 08:27   #4
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While it sounds appealing, I would be surprised if the off gas velocity was high enough to create enough much force. The flow seems too low and you want to keep the DP from being too high.
I would think that a chevron separator or a simple wire wool collector (such as is already used in the ALH valve cover) would be adequate.

Last edited by DanG144; July 26th, 2011 at 08:28. Reason: finish a sentence on DP.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 10:47   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tequilaiam View Post
One thing to consider: Where are you going to put it? I tried an ag seperator design a few years ago. It worked OK but froze up in the winter since I mounted it behind the radiator fans. If you got something small enough to hang near the firewall you'd probably be OK. But then would it seperate? Where would it drain back to? dipstick port? Anything on the valve cover would be too high to clear the hood, no?

I just did the elephant trunk. It still freezes up in the winter but when mounted in front of the front tires its easy enough to give it a little kick to unblock it.


I live in Florida, so no freezing issues here As far as placement, I will just fit it in where it fits best. Right now my engine cover is off for the experimentation, but eventually I plan on mounting it just to the right of the vacuum pump. I am using a low profile rubber elbow to keep it under the engine cover. The drain will still go to the dipstick tube. I will be placing a small(1/8") orifice in the drain tube so I don't have crank case vapors entering the botton of the separator. Also, the cold weather BMW separators come with rubber insulation to keep it from freezing over FYI
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Old July 26th, 2011, 10:56   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanG144 View Post
While it sounds appealing, I would be surprised if the off gas velocity was high enough to create enough much force. The flow seems too low and you want to keep the DP from being too high.
I would think that a chevron separator or a simple wire wool collector (such as is already used in the ALH valve cover) would be adequate.



Your right, the velocity and DP are important. In fact I was just thinking about an easy way to construct an automatic adjustable nozzle that will open for higher flow rates, and will close down a bit at the lower rates. This is to hopefully get the velocity high enough at most engine speeds to allow effectiveness. I could also make a simple pressure operated bypass valve if needed to bypass the cyclonic separator at higher CCV flows I guess. Changing internal dimensions can change the lower flow operating point, but not sure thats where I want to go yet.....Because right now it seems to be working so I will only make minor tweaks.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; July 26th, 2011 at 10:58.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 06:58   #7
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Darn double post!
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; July 28th, 2011 at 12:11.
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Old July 27th, 2011, 07:05   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwood View Post
Nissan's been using catch cans like this for years on their SR20-powered Sentras and G20s, which are sadly becoming plentiful in junkyards:





Got any pictures of your setup?






That's interesting. I just did a quick search to verify they use the cyclonic separation action, and came up with nothing. You can't really tell by looking at the outer shape either. Wish I could get an internal photo.

I don't have any installation photos yet, as it's still in an infancy state right now. If things continue to go well with it, I may create a Youtube video documenting the construction and installation method.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old July 27th, 2011, 07:18   #9
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Little update on progress-or lack of it:

Last evening I ran down to NAPA to pick up some rubber hose to use on the cyclonic separator and move toward the final installation. I figured I would go ahead and use "Weatherhead" hose on it(the kind that has the black/dark grey woven fabric on it) to keep things with a stock look. I made a poor decision in size thinking the hose would stretch and allow it to slide over the fittings. boy was I wrong! $18.00 in hose down the drain-that will teach me to try to make things look stock! I went with the 5/8" instead of the 3/4" I should have gone with. The 5/8" standard rubber coolant hose would have probably worked well, and would have stretched like it should have. I will probably have another go at it tonight if time allows.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old August 3rd, 2011, 07:53   #10
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Little update on the project:



After fiddling with my home made cyclonic oil/air separator which was shaping up nicely I had to abandon it. In an effort to streamline internal air flow I had to cut my air inlet threaded metal fitting at an angle. When I went to thread the angle-cut threaded part of the fitting into the plastic threaded housing it tore up the threads really bad to the point that it will not hold as well as I need it to. I want things to look fairly stock(not out of place) and I want things to be solid for many years of useage.

Frusterated, I went to the internet nd searched BMW cyclonic oil/air separators, and came up with some parts I had never seen before. One of them was this one:




http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...BIeDtgf2opCZAw


Copy this into the part search in the website to see the part that I ordered(for some reason the link above doesn't bring the exact part up?): 11151705237







BMW part number is 11.15.1.705.237 and is for a 2000 BMW X5 4.4I M62 whatever that is I ended up ordering mine from Autohaus AZ for around $36.00 I liked it since both inlet and outlet for the air are on the same side of the separator, and if they stay consistent size wise to other BMW separators out there, they should have just under ” air inlet/outlet and around ” oil drain outlet on the bottom. Best of all it is black plastic and will look like it should be there as an OEM part.




Here they are also installed in the M5, and also shows a cut-apart view:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...BZO2tge85oSZAw





..
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; August 8th, 2011 at 19:18.
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Old August 8th, 2011, 16:20   #11
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Fellas,


Got my package this evening from Autohaus AZ that had my cyclonic air/oil separator......


Wow!!-This thing is awesome! when you blow gently into the inlet you can hear the whirring/spinning of the air inside. This is a good sign from what I can tell. My homemade unit certainly didn't do that, and it leads me to believe this one will be tons more effective than the unit I made. Another thing that makes me like this is that it looks completely stock with fabric covered 3/4" lines going to it, and the cyclone separator is made out of the same black plastic other engine components are made of. I installed it between the vacuum pump and the stock air box, and I had plenty of room. I will try to make/post a U-tube video of it soon. I put a small clear glass jar on the bottom so I can monitor the effluent to see just how much separation is going on.
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; August 8th, 2011 at 16:44.
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Old August 9th, 2011, 08:29   #12
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Nice find! Waiting on the performance report. Should not pose any restriction to flow, something other devices ignored which raises crankcase pressure, causing greater leakage of oil from the turbocharger.
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Old August 9th, 2011, 09:33   #13
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Nice find! Waiting on the performance report. Should not pose any restriction to flow, something other devices ignored which raises crankcase pressure, causing greater leakage of oil from the turbocharger.





Thanks! With any luck I will be able to make a video this afternoon, and post the link here tonight. Stay Tuned!!
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!
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Old August 9th, 2011, 17:55   #14
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Fellas,

I put a quick video together this afternoon of the new BMW Cyclonic Air/Oil separator for my CCV. The part can be purchased from ECS tuning:

http://www.ecstuning.com/

You can find the exact part I used by copy and pasteing this part number in their search:

11151705237




Here is the U-tube video of my setup. It's not complete yet, but it's functional(I hope ):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMuQhPClVCU










As you can see, I didn't have to reroute any vacuum components and everything is pretty much stock. Engine cover still fits perfectly too. Can't wait to see the results!


..
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2002 VW Jetta TDI 5-speed(completed 01M-5-speed swap at 155K miles) 60+ MPG City.
Experimenting with the "Hybrid" 205 Deg F T-stat:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306799&page=4
Now have Nokian Entyre Low RR tires!

Last edited by josh8loop; August 9th, 2011 at 18:20.
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Old August 9th, 2011, 20:12   #15
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Very cool. Keep us informed. I think I'll do the same. I bought a VCDS to alter the egr valve and found it can't be altered on a PD. I looked again and it does look like more of that oil is coming from the ccv hoses so this would be a big help.
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