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VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas Discussions area for A5/MkV Jetta/Golf (2005/2006 PD and 2009 CR).

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Old January 14th, 2019, 21:03   #1
kpgubert
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Default Bad, bad clutch noise

It's been a long time since I've posted. Always too busy, but on the bright side my TDI has pretty much been trouble free for the past 120k miles (207k now). Until now...
Starting a year or so ago I started hearing a rattling noise when stopped, clutch out. The noise didn't seem very rhythmic, and if I put a little pressure on the clutch pedal, it would go away. It seemed its worst when first started after driven and warmed up the noise seemed to almost go away. Unfortunately I never took a video of this noise. Seemed to me possibly a throw out bearing or an aging DMF.

Fast forward to a few months ago. Driving home from work one day, clutch pedal started not springing all the way up, and of course the clutch not wanting to release all the way. I tried just replacing the master cylinder myself (and bleeding of course), but no such luck. It work for a few pumps, but then act like it needed to be bled again (same problem).

I had actually already ordered a DKM Stage 2 clutch kit (with single mass flywheel). Unfortunately I didn't have the time or space to do the work myself, so I had a transmission shop who has done good work for us in the past do it. Clutch seemed to work alright. Definitely holds better than the stock one, but a heavier pedal. It does seem to bring out a harmonic vibration at ~2100 RPM in any gear. It's only very noticeable at that RPM when really pouring the fuel on. Neither one of those things is a big deal to me. The heavier pedal is to be expected, and I assume the harmonic vibration is a result of the SMF.

However, I now have a major noise at idle, neutral, clutch pedal out/up. The noise doesn't subside until the pedal is pushed far enough to release the clutch (slight pressure or movement on the pedal doesn't do anything has to go far enough to disengage the transmission). It is worse when it's warm after driving for a while. Here's the video I took:

2.0 TDI Neutral Noise

The video doesn't pick up the noise very well when inside the car, but after I move outside it's very audible (second part of video). Nasty nasty. It sounds like a noisy diesel noise, except it's not the diesel part! As you hear the noise come and go outside the car that's be still working the clutch pedal.

It's been a few thousand miles since the clutch install. The noise doesn't appear to be getting any worse, but certainly not any better. I didn't have a noise like this at all before the clutch install. Could have the SMF brought this out? I find it hard to believe this noise is normal...
Any insight is much appreciated. Thank you!
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Old January 14th, 2019, 21:11   #2
kdawg89
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Single mass flywheels are known to make a bunch of noise at idle with the clutch out, probably normal for that flywheel.


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Old January 15th, 2019, 04:34   #3
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Vw used a DMF to prevent just that kind of noise. I switched to a smf when I did the clutch on my 05 the first time. It was a good clutch but I never liked the noise from the day I installed it.

Fast forward 150k miles and I put a sacks quiet clutch smf in. So much quieter. That sounds a lot like clutch noise however it is a little louder than mine ever was. Baring some installation fopaw on the part of the installer, you may have to live with it unless you want to pay for another clutch job.
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Old January 16th, 2019, 08:16   #4
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I suspected that might be the report. Hindsight is 20/20, and I should have probably just stuck with a stock replacement. I'm definitely not paying to have the clutch changed again. We'll see this summer when the weather is nice. If the noise is still annoying I'll change it myself then. Of course I'll still have to buy a new clutch and DMF.

I thought about trying a different transmission fluid, but from what I found on other threads different fluids doesn't seem to help noises like this.

Thanks for the help!
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Old January 16th, 2019, 08:19   #5
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You could look at Sachs quiet clutch rather than stock replacement. People seem to have good luck with it, quietest choice will always be a DMF though.


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Old January 16th, 2019, 08:32   #6
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I didn't know about that one. I also see there are a few options for DMF kits with added capacity. I really don't need much added capacity (if any), but the old one wouldn't hold sometimes and I didn't want that to happen again.

We'll see how I feel about this when summer time gets here. If I have the time and money to switch it, I will probably just revert to a DMF setup.
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Old January 16th, 2019, 09:19   #7
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Karl
Try placing your hand over end tin cover on the trans. Those covers will resonate with the clutch chatter. If that helps then....
I have been putting 3layers of the 1/8” thick sticky panel sound deadening material on them to make it a little more tolerable.


OOPS...
Forgot that you have the 2.0 CR w/ 6 speed and it may not have the tin cover.
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Old January 17th, 2019, 11:55   #8
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Martin,
Thanks a lot! I'll definitely check. Where should I look for the cover (if mine has one)? It's a bit curious because I can definitely pick up on the noise inside the car, but it's much, much louder outside the car.
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Old January 18th, 2019, 06:06   #9
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It would be on the drivers end of the trans on the 5speed manual. After looking at a couple of pics, I don’t think it applies to the 02Q 6 speed manual.
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Old January 18th, 2019, 16:08   #10
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Took me a while to understand why the gear rattle was going on and off. On the vid you were pushing the clutch petal in and releasing it several times. Why were you doing that? The noise you hear is normal for a SMF at idle with the clutch not pushed in.

A SMF should not be used with a 6 speed. Over time it will tear up syncros.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...&highlight=smf
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Old January 30th, 2019, 18:27   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol'Rattler View Post
Took me a while to understand why the gear rattle was going on and off. On the vid you were pushing the clutch petal in and releasing it several times. Why were you doing that? The noise you hear is normal for a SMF at idle with the clutch not pushed in.

A SMF should not be used with a 6 speed. Over time it will tear up syncros.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...&highlight=smf

I wanted to record what the sound was with the clutch pushed in and not pushed in. Sorry, should have noted that in the original post.

It seems the consensus is that this amount of noise is normal for a SMF. Like I mentioned before, I may swap this setup out for a DMF setup when the warmer weather gets here.

Thanks for the link to that thread. They talk about the "synchros" getting chewed up. It sounds like it's the synchronizer block rings getting chewed up. I've never had apart one of these trans' or any FWD transmission before, but I assume they use block rings just like the Borg Warner or Mazda RWD transmissions I have done.

Maybe if I do change the clutch and/or flywheel I'll freshen up the gearbox too at the same time. Almost 209k miles on the clock now.
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