2012 & 2013 Passat Alignment Discussion

Chris Bell said:

Are those the updated specs (if there actually are updated specs)?

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there is a verbal correction nothing published, I'll see if I can get it, in the conversation I had what I got out of it was they recognize a problem and are fishing for a solution

Klystron said:

Well at this point I'm starting to believe that this will be my last VW purchase.

Got my 2013 Passat back today after they shifted the sub-frame to correct the caster issue but they has instead made the issue worse.

The original alinement from the factory had the left caster at 7.47 degrees and the right just out at 7.24 degrees with a cross caster of 0.23 degrees.

The new alignment is 8.00 degrees left and 7.40 degrees on the right so now I have a cross caster of 0.60 which is over half a degree.

Also add to this the side with the least caster is the right side. So now when I'm on a two lane road the less caster is adding to the effect of the road crown and its in the ditch in less than 2 seconds if you take your hand off the wheel.

Add to that now the steering wheel is not straight so when I drive down the road its at the 11 o'clock position.

I'm really pretty frustrated with VW and don't know what to do at this point.

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Hopefully you didn't accept the vehicle in that condition...

VeeDubTDI said:

Hopefully you didn't accept the vehicle in that condition...

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Had no choice, they said that its been on the alignment rack twice now and all the measurements are "in the green" and the tech drove it around the block and said the wheel is straight.

I asked about the cross caster and they said that VW doesn't set a spec for that and as long as with caster is with-in the 7.25-8.25 degree range we are not going to touch it again.

So after having my Jetta have the HPFP failure and now this with my new Passat I'm done with VW. They may have nice vehicles but their dealers are horrible and they just don't seem to care.

Today I spoke with a guy I know that owns a independent shop that does nothing but fixes wrecked high end cars, mostly BMW, Audi and MB and got his thoughts.

He said what they did was instead of just pushing the right side of the sub-frame forward they pushed the WHOLE sub-frame forward. When I asked why his answer was that when you push the whole frame it doesn't really mess up the alignment much but if you just push the right side forward to add more caster to it but not the left side, then you throw the whole alignment way out and it takes a lot more time to put it back.

So next week when he can fit me in, he is going to push the sub-frame back to where it was and just pull the right side forward and do a total alignment.

I'm sure I can fight with VW and maybe get it close to being right but how many more times is it going to take.

I'm sure I can fight with VW and maybe get it close to being right but how many more times is it going to take.[/QUOTE]

put in case with VW 12 days ago, no response, after front tire switch still pulls right camera still slow bought seat cushions for my wooden seats but airbag won't recognize passenger with seat cushion Car is destined to be shrink wrapped..."bought this lemon from VW", checking shops in the area

Well? Is it finally cured? Have you checked the tire pressure on all 4 wheels?

Klystron said:

Had no choice, they said that its been on the alignment rack twice now and all the measurements are "in the green" and the tech drove it around the block and said the wheel is straight.

I asked about the cross caster and they said that VW doesn't set a spec for that and as long as with caster is with-in the 7.25-8.25 degree range we are not going to touch it again.

So after having my Jetta have the HPFP failure and now this with my new Passat I'm done with VW. They may have nice vehicles but their dealers are horrible and they just don't seem to care.

Today I spoke with a guy I know that owns a independent shop that does nothing but fixes wrecked high end cars, mostly BMW, Audi and MB and got his thoughts.

He said what they did was instead of just pushing the right side of the sub-frame forward they pushed the WHOLE sub-frame forward. When I asked why his answer was that when you push the whole frame it doesn't really mess up the alignment much but if you just push the right side forward to add more caster to it but not the left side, then you throw the whole alignment way out and it takes a lot more time to put it back.

So next week when he can fit me in, he is going to push the sub-frame back to where it was and just pull the right side forward and do a total alignment.

I'm sure I can fight with VW and maybe get it close to being right but how many more times is it going to take.

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in2dwww said:

Well? Is it finally cured? Have you checked the tire pressure on all 4 wheels?

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it's not tire pressure. It is a manufacturing issue affecting a very small number of cars. Typical shoddy VW response.

My 03 jetta deployed a curtain/side airbag when i put a pothole in a right hand turn (60k on the clock). Took quite a bit of fighting before it was covered. Later found out there was an NHTSA investigation for the issue.

afarfalla, why do you wait 12 days then complain here? Call in again, demand to speak with someone, file a BBB complaint, a NHTSA complaint. You spend all your time complaing on tdiclub.com....

Car is totaled now (or should be). Let's move on.

New 2014 Passat Steers right

Well, this is a revolting development. I tested a used 2012 Passat Tdi it steered to the right and I mentioned it to the salesman who said the curve of the road can do that. I then tested the 2014 and bought it without much thought and now discovered it too steers to the right. They alternated the front tires but it continues to be a problem. Is this an inherent problem with the Passat TDI's? Can it be fixed or not?
Thanx

The Passat is sensitive to the road crown. This being said the car should be neutral on a flat surface and barely drift right or left depending on which side of the crown you happen to be on. In other words the car should essentially be neutral as to drift.

If you question this it might be of some profit to take the car out in a heavy crosswind. Passat is not unstable but you'll certainly know when hit by a gust of wind. Sensitive may be the correct definition.

Your tires, though nothing wrong with them, will make a huge difference. My 2013 with Hankooks could make life interesting. Not dangerous, just interesting. Then snow tires. Almost spooky at first but fine after I got used to them.

Contis on our 2013 SEL are sensitive but not as sensitive as the Kooks on the '13 SE. On the other hand the Kooks on my '14 SE compare favorably with the SEL tires. Interesting!

So... A total of three '13 Passats. Two SE's and a SEL. One '14 SE to replace the '13 SE. All displayed neutral pull on flat surfaces and little tendency to wander even of fairly heavily crowned roads.

Dealers? Dealers sell cars. In some cases they even fix cars. Unfortunately the dealer tech world is made up mostly of "numbers" techs. If a car falls within certain numbers, then they go no further. Actually they can't as most have little conception of cause and effect.

I tend to think that most of our "pulling' problems arise from incorrect transportation methods. Perhaps aggressive tie-downs on a rough trip. A good tech with an understanding of your complaint and what the numbers are saying should easily address and correct your problem.

I just got off the phone with Volkswagen Canada. I have had 7 alignments. One dealership unbolted the sub-frame and re-bolted it on again for free. It took all day. It did not solve the problem. It was the best they could do.

Finally I took it to a collision repair place. They pulled the frame forward on the right, and now the car is good. $1500 total spent. Complete denial. I guess they are worried about class action suits or massive recall expense. I have looked at other 2012 Passat's and I have yet to find one that has equal distance from the back of the front right and left wheel's to the wheel well. See how many fingers you can fit in each side. 2014's I have looked at are all ok.

afarfalla said:

I'm sure I can fight with VW and maybe get it close to being right but how many more times is it going to take.

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put in case with VW 12 days ago, no response, after front tire switch still pulls right camera still slow bought seat cushions for my wooden seats but airbag won't recognize passenger with seat cushion Car is destined to be shrink wrapped..."bought this lemon from VW", checking shops in the area[/QUOTE]
I am new to this forum and very interested to find out if you obtained any more details on the recommended fix for this problem, and which dealership they sent the solution to. Would you be able to help me with this?

just got a 13 Passat tdi sel and it pulls EVER SO SLIGHTLY to the right. Not enough to be a safety hazard.

My 2013 has tracked straight from day one. Guess I got lucky

I suspect there are more of us that tracked straight then pulled. Mine has been perfect since day one as well.

Our 13 developed a right hand pull that I noticed during a cross country trip. It took 3 alignments, but the dealer eventually got it right. What annoyed me most was that the numbers were "in spec" after the 1st try and the car still had an obvious pull. On the 2nd try, the tech obnoxiously wrote "made adjustments, no more pull" without providing before and after specs and measures. This one made me very angry, and the service manager heard about it. 3rd time was the charm. She tracks like new again. It's aggravating to deal with this sort of issue, when the techs are clearly going by color codes when adjusting to specs and no one takes the time to verify that a repeat problem is actually fixed.

Mine still drifts right after multiple alignments and road force balances. I came across a VW TSB on this issue to help if anyone is interested on how detailed an alignment is for our cars.
Click the below "multimedia" button for the TSB

Hi everyone,

Last week I took delivery of a new 2017 VW Passat 1.8T SEL Premium.

Upon leaving the dealer, I noticed the car pulling to the right. I notified the salesman and general manager by e-mail the same day and brought the car in for service a couple days later.

On Tuesday my service advisor stated an alignment was performed and the car was ready for pick up. I road tested the car, but it was still pulling. I asked the service advisor to go on a road test with me. Upon driving off, he observed the pulling and we returned to the dealer.

On Wednesday my service advisor stated the car was ready again. When I got to the dealer, I asked if another alignment was performed and was told one was not, as the car was already in-spec according to the prior report. I road tested the car again, but it was still pulling. So, I returned and asked to speak with the service manager.

The service manager stated he drove my car, that it tracks straight and what I’m complaining of is caused by road crown. I was adamant road crown was not the cause, stating I have other cars that don’t pull on the same roads. The manager stated the measurements were in-spec and that ‘it’s as far as I am going to go with your concern’. I couldn’t believe the disrespect, but I remained calm and asked if he could go on a road test with me. He said it wouldn't matter, as the car was in-spec. I asked again and he agreed.

On the road test, the car was pulling. I was holding the steering wheel completely straight and it’d begin to pull while accelerating or coasting. Somehow, someway, the service manager claimed I was steering the car to the right, which I was absolutely not. He then stated ‘to test alignment, you let go of the wheel, you don’t hold the wheel’. I said I never heard same and have in fact heard the opposite, that the wheel must be held straight. Nevertheless, I let go of the wheel and the car was still pulling. He then stated the car is in-spec, in response to which I said in-spec or out-of-spec, there’s something wrong, the car is pulling, and he repeated ‘it’s as far as I’m going to go’. He also added, ‘you have to drive the car’. I didn't understand what he meant, so I asked him to clarify, in response to which he said ‘the car doesn’t drive itself, you have to steer it’, which was insulting.

Upon our return to the dealer, I asked to speak with the general manager, but was told he left for the day and will be back Friday. I’ve contacted VW Customer CARE and they’re researching the matter.

A new car SHOULD NOT pull and a dealer SHOULD NOT be dismissive of such a concern. I’ve also spent time researching this matter and it’s apparent from both message boards and VW TSB’s that pulling and drifting concerns have plagued the Passat for years.

What can I do? There must be a way to make our cars track straight. What should I instruct VW Customer CARE to have the dealer check out and do to my car? Are the factory alignment specs still wrong after all these years? Any ideas what should be checked out step by step? Please do tell me that cars that were pulling were able to be fixed one way or the other. Sad and upset.

Thank you.

for caster adjustments

i don't know but someone in knows can chime!. kit from ecs tuning & else might help adjusting caster without messing with subframe!.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-kmac-parts/stage-2-camber-plates-street-track/141616-2l~kma/

http://www.duraflexbodykits.com/201...oilover-system-ksport-cvw340-kp-p-610387.html

DIY subframe alignment for audi:http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/718917-The-DIY-Subframe-Alignment!

I'd be interested in seeing the alignment report for this car. "Within spec" has a pretty wide adjustment range. I've had cars re-aligned multiple times that were in spec.

dbs600: Stay calm. This is a known problem. Your dealer should be able to figure it out.
Or...drive to a different dealer, ask THEM to check specs, show you the printout. If it's out, they fix it under warranty. If it's NOT out of spec, then...hmm...you'll have to work up the VWoA food chain.
Good luck.

Thank you very much Gentlemen.

Just so frustrating, as it's a brand new car and I'm being stonewalled already, as if I'm crazy.

Concerned because I see same was done to many here as well and I don't want the aggravation / back and forth; too draining.

Will get the actual alignment report. Otherwise, seems you're saying an alignment that's 'in-spec' may still be causing pulling.

Anyone know if VW ever completely resolved this problem? Anyone's 2016 or 2017's had this problem as well? Can any of this be caused by computer software / programming? Also, any contacts at VWOA in particular I can try reaching out to?

All help / guidance is most appreciated!

Thank you very much.

I don't think there is an ongoing issue with NMS FE alignment. I think we'd know about it here.
I still think you can, and should, get it resolved at the dealer level. Involving VWoA can be cumbersome and not time-effective.
I don't think FE alignment issues on new cars is exclusive to VW. It all depends on how diligent respective dealerships are, during the "dealer prep" phase after car is driven off the truck.
It's hard not to be frustrated, especially if you're as OCD as most members of car forums!!!!!! (I just had a dealer service director quietly say to me, "You're a real pain in the ass" as I was calmly insisting he take care of something. He said it with a big smile, slapping me on the back, followed up quietly with, "We actually like customers like you, to keep us on our toes!"...ahem...NOT a VW dealership, but Toyota!!!)

tdiatlast said:

It's hard not to be frustrated, especially if you're as OCD as most members of car forums!!!!!! (I just had a dealer service director quietly say to me, "You're a real pain in the ass" as I was calmly insisting he take care of something. He said it with a big smile, slapping me on the back, followed up quietly with, "We actually like customers like you, to keep us on our toes!"...ahem...NOT a VW dealership, but Toyota!!!)

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Woah! :|

Nevertheless, thank you for your continued insight and support; much appreciated.

I don't think it's OCD to be perceptive enough to recognize when a car isn't driving as it should and persisting in getting it set up properly. My guru is used to me bringing in my cars for multiple alignments, and he knows that if a wheel balance is off by 1/2 ounce I'll be there to have it re-balanced. Some people notice and some don't. And some bother to get issues corrected, and some don't. Doesn't make us obsessive, we just have high standards.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Doesn't make us obsessive, we just have high standards.

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just obsessive for high standards

If you think the dealer can resolve it you are probably wrong. I posted here on the forum the problem and the resolution and I'll do it once again. First go to a good competent alignment shop. have both front and rear toe set to zero. If the castor and camber right and left are not very close, your subframe is misaligned. if the shop is not familiar with this procedure to loosen subframe bolts and retorque in proper order, best stop there and find a vw tech who knows how to align ir correctly. On my 2013 sel pasat, after the zero tow setting, both caster and camber were within 1 minute of a degree right to left and at 56k miles tires showed enough tread for another 30k miles. On my 2015 passat sel the right side castor and camber were way out. After subframe was realigned, the castor and camber both sides were within 2 minuets of a degree. I might add that you can set rear camber from 1/2 to 1 degree negative. Most vw dealers only use tenths of a degree not seconds of arc. minutes of arc is six times more finite than tenths. The subframe missalignment occurs on the larger vws on the transporters from improper tiedown. Before I got this fixed, I had the stupid service manager, backed up by the vw district rep, tell me that my passat was up to vw standards and they could not fix it, telling me that the lane changing was due to torque steer. As to alignment, most techs want to set or see readings in middle of green which is not usually the ideal setting. Now, with it set to settings I mentioned, I can go a mile, hands off, on turnpike without changing lanes. Final point, I spent 115 bucks to make a unacceptable car into a great car.

While I was using vcds on my new 2015 golf s, reducing power assist in steering, I found that the electromechanical steering has the capability to correct for road crown drift. I didn't check to see if it also functions on the passat but it probably does.

^^^both posts are excellent, except for the first line in #86. There ARE competent dealerships that can, and should, perform the work detailed in your post. For the OP to have to PAY for this work is unacceptable, especially with under 200 miles on the odometer.
I don't think he's fully investigated other dealerships. Good ones, with good techs, do exist.
IndigoBlueWagon: Get over it. Compared to most American drivers, we ARE OCD!

I had my '02 Wagon aligned at the dealer three times before I gave up and took it to an independent shop. The dealer may have the capability to do it right, but when your car is repeatedly given to the same tech who apparently doesn't care, at some point you cut your losses and pay for the alignment.

...but we don't even have any "spec" numbers yet. All good advice above, but it's in his best interest to establish a relationship with a dealership, at least for the warranty period.
My opinion, of course.

dbs600: stupid, basic question. Tire pressure: is it @ spec? In my experience, PSI is critical in these cars, too high, car will "tramline". IIRC, I kept mine (Hankook and Conti) around 38psi.