Is there additional emissions equipment in TDIs sold new into the CA market?

cheapsk8

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS
Is there additional emissions equipment in TDIs sold new into the California market?

Or is there anything different about TDIs sold new there?

If so, was this true back in 2000-2004?
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
The current 2009 and newer TDIs are 50 state legal.

I believe somewhere around 2002 California enacted stricter emissions standards for diesels and VW was unable to sell TDIs as new vehicles in this state 2003-2006 if I'm not mistaken. People haven't had a problem bringing them into the state as used vehicles, however... Just ask Harvieux!

If you're thinking of moving here with a TDI, just know that 1998 and newer diesels DO require smog checks as of 1/1/2010. To ensure passing a smog test, you will need an OEM catalyst and a properly hooked up EGR and no modification to the CCV system. Also, if the smog technician is thorough enough, you might get called out on having a chiptune that automatically resets EGR readiness. It's a crapshoot. To ensure that you do pass, you essentially need a stock car and no check engine light/codes stored.

I'm not saying that others have not passed with modified cars... but the letter of the law states you need the above.
 
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cheapsk8

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS
Yeah, ok, that makes sense. I'm thinking they do have extra emissions equipment installed because it seems every jetta tdi 5-sp I'm looking at quotes low 40s mpg from California, but high 40s just about everywhere else.
 

rallyruss

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Location
Bay Area CA
TDI
98 TDI jetta, 05 passat wagon
Yeah, ok, that makes sense. I'm thinking they do have extra emissions equipment installed because it seems every jetta tdi 5-sp I'm looking at quotes low 40s mpg from California, but high 40s just about everywhere else.
I seriously doubt it. Manufactures quit that act back in the 80s for the most part.
 

cheapsk8

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS
Hi Compu_85,

not trying to be confrontational, but how do you know? Can you point me to something definitive?

I'll admit that my sampling size is small because I just started looking for a car, but I've noticed this mpg discrepancy and so it got me wondering.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
Is that MPG difference just in seller's listings?

You could look through the repair manuals, there is no california only equipement like on some older gassers, or some 80s mercedes diesels.
 

cheapsk8

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Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Location
Ohio
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS
Yeah, it's just the seller's stated fuel economy.

Ok, repair manuals. Thanks for the reply!
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Jason is right, there have NEVER been any special California emissions models for diesels. Prior to 2003, Fed and Cali emissions laws were the same, so the same emissions equipment are on all cars.

Post 2002 or so, they couldn't sell TDIs NEW in California, so again all cars came with the same emissions equipment because they all conformed to federal laws. They didn't conform to California emissions laws, but you could get them into the state as a used car after at least 7500 miles were put on it.

There's never been California-specific diesel emissions models.

Maybe there's a difference in fuel out here! Or it's just that we have to drive with severe elevation changes. Who knows! Or maybe it's just a strange coincidence with the few for sale ads you've seen. Whatever the reason, the fact still remains that there have never been California-specific emissions model TDIs.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
1986 Cali spec Mercedes diesels were the first cars ever fitted with a DPF. Didn't work out so well though :eek:

-J
 

TDIMK4GUY

Active member
Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Location
Modesto, cali USA
TDI
02 reflex silver golf
Cali tdi guy here, my 02 Golf is the same as any other tdi sold In the USA but I do know we have different diesel blends here.... Something to do with sulfer. I would suspect that's the reason In fuel mileage differences the other could be most people out here have a lead foot and so use more fuel. Just my two cents.
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
TDIs were available in CA from 1996 to 2003 MY with the exception of MY 2000. All TDIs produced for the US market had the same emissions equipment. BEWs, BHWs, and BRMs were not certified for new sales in CA. The only legal way a CA resident could acquire a non compliant TDI was if the vehicle was previously registered and titled in another state by a non CA resident and had at least 7500 miles on the Odo. Non resident TDI owners were able to register their non CA compliant TDI with <7500 miles by acquiring a CA DL and registering their non compliant TDI.

Some dealers including myself were caught with non compliant TDIs/MBZ CDIs in their possession. The fine was $10,000 1st offense. I got caught with my A5 pkg.2 at my dealership when (2) AQMD officers made an unannounced/uninvited visit even though I presented a purchase invoice with a close friend of mine specified as the purchaser/owner from WA. Where I got nailed was the fact I had one of my dealer plates attached to the vehicle and BINGO, I was busted. I was ordered to remove the vehicle from CA with proof of out of state registration within 30 days. I easily accomplished that demand but was surprised when my heavy fine arrived in the mail a few weeks later even after totally complying with their demands as well as not being told that the fine was so fricken heavy.:rolleyes: Needless to say, I had to devise other methods of getting even if you know whadda mean, hello? ;) Later!
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
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Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
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1996 B4V
Don't look now, but EPA standard and CARB standard are being merged at the CARB levels.

California has been driving emission standards for the whole world for the last 50 years.

Why? Simple economics. Do you know that 1 out of every 4 new Porches sold in the world was sold in California for more than 20 years? California is a HUGE market and nobody can walk away from that market.

Not much of a market for new cars in Idaho with 950,000 people, is there? Heck, Tijuana, Mexico is a bigger market.

The rest of you just have to follow.

I am very tired of the stupid posts about CARB. Sorry.

But GET OVER IT!!!!

VW introduced EFI in 1967 (electronic fuel injection). My 1985 Mustang GT still had a carb. It had 200 horsepower and a top speed of 138 mph. Care to look at the 300+ horsepower 2011 base Mustang 6 cylinder? It is faster, cleaner, and gets better MPG. You think that would have happened without CARB?? Compare a 1967 Camaro Z28 with the new Mustang or Camaro.

Night and Day in so many ways. My first Z28 ride back then was more exciting than... Well, high school girls had a few things to learn (and me too).




CA is such a joke with this emissions stuff.
 
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NachtRitter

Veteran Member
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Aug 17, 2010
Location
Northern California
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI 5MT
CA is such a joke with this emissions stuff.
I'll have to disagree with that as well...

In 1977, the South Coast Air Basin in Los Angeles area had 121 Stage 1 smog alerts. In 1987 there were 66. In 1997 there was 1. There have been none since then.

As John.Jackson9213 says, the cars available today burn the fuel more efficiently, making them more powerful, burn cleaner, and get better mpgs... that is awesome, not a joke. :rolleyes:
 

boertje

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2002
Location
Coeur d'Alene, ID
TDI
'01, '01, '03, ‘06 NB - TDIs all.
Its not the emissions laws I was thinking about but rather the way the diesel smogging is done when compared to gassers. I watched them do my 99 diesel ranch truck (in the Sacramento Valley)...what a joke that was. I should have been more clear.
 

Blonde Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Location
Santa Cruz, CA
TDI
2011 Golf TDI
Is there additional emissions equipment in TDIs sold new into the California market?

Or is there anything different about TDIs sold new there?
I think you are probably right about worse mileage in California. Compared to people in Ohio, people in California drive about 10 - 15 mph faster on the freeway. That's just an average, and I know I drive in California as if I was from Ohio, which brings the average down a tiny bit. But that extra speed, just from moving along with traffic, means that any car, gas or diesel, gets worse mileage in California. No wonder we need CARB!
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
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Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
In MY 2000 the cars passed the first required test so they were built to be sold there in California . But on a supplemental test after they started to be sold CARB claimed they failed . So VW shipped all remaining CA TDI cars to other western states to be sold . A few of the first ones were sold in CA but most of the first run produced to be sold in CA were sent to other places like CO . I saw lots full of them at the beginning of MY 2000 . VW reprogrammed the ECU to over fuel at start up which heated up the emissions controls more quickly so they could pass the stupid CARB retest . So by mid MY 2000 , by the end of Jan 00 they were back on sale new CA .

So as was said they were sold in CA from 1996 to 2003 model years , except for the short period of time they weren't in late fall 1999 ( 2000 MY ) .

And CARB has done nothing positive when it comes to light duty diesels by having their ridiculous useless over stringent emissions rules . These rules were passed when light duty diesels made up less than .1 % of the total fleet on the roads in California . There was no clean air to be found from the adopting of emissions rules that could barely be passed with the fuel we had in the US on cars that no one sold here !!!!!!!!! In case you don't know no auto diesels were sold in CA from 1987 - mid year 1996 , VW sold some diesels in the rest of the states from winter 89 - 92 then none sold here in any state until 96 . No one else sold any auto diesels here in the US from 87 late 99 so I say again , Where is the clean air to be found from CARB's rediculiously strict light duty diesel emissions rules on vehicles that no one sold here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there isn't any is the answer .............

In 2004 those clueless idiots at CARB did again except this time they really did passed rules that there was no way to pass with the dirty fuel we had in the US . So no TDIs were sold new from 2004 to 2009 MYs , they could be bought if they had at least 7,500 miles on the clock when registered in CA . A lot of people from CA bought cars in one of the other 45 states that could sell them . Driven for 7,500 then registered in CA .

In 2006 the emissions rules changed for EPA spec cars but the fuel on sale at the time made it impossible to pass . So VW over produced 06 MY emissioned cars which were sold new until spring of 2008 when the first of the TDI-CRs showed . The 06 Diesel Editions were built in a way , just enough of the car assembled to qualify as a 06 MY car . Over the next 1 3/4 the cars were finished being assembled as they were needed . So many of the 06 Diesel Editions were actually assembled in as late as fall of 07 , sold new as late as March/April of 08 . The first TDI-CR Jetta's went on sale in late summer 08 , 2009 MY cars in all 50 states .

All stupid CARB has done is they have blocked from the US cars like the BluemotionTDIs and similar . A class of cars that are the most efficient cars ever built that have no trouble exceeding 70 mpgUS in everyday driving . Cars that make the current hybrids appear like the bad jokes they really are . If we adopted Euro5 rules today on light duty diesels we could over night raise CAFE by at least 20 points ( 20 mpgs ) . Now that would make our air cleaner from the gas wasters they would replace and make our country more secure from the less crude oil we would waste .

:mad:Too bad those idiots at CARB & the EPA can't see the big picture on this:mad:
 
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