slow, dumb, cheap compound setup!

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
the unreasonable EGTs are from the 13 degrees of timing

I'm running a fairly large air/water, and intake temps (again with the big fat plastic encapsulated IAT sensors these things have and their glacial response) peak around 20 deg C, I could cut back the smoke maps, but it's burning clean. Again, the cause is the timing I pulled to get the head to stop lifting. Still isn't completely sealed up but it's quite a bit happier, only pressurizes the coolant if I beat on it cold.
Not worried too much about the EGTs, others run theirs for much longer stretches at 1100C

Nobody's played with block filler in the head?
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
this 13 deg you mention, at what rpm is that?
take stock maps, anywhere over 13 degrees, highlight and fill with 13.
I'd have a screenshot for you, but I'm already late for leaving to go to work.
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
okay got 8lbs of woods metal coming and 3lbs of that devcon liquid aluminum "pourable" stuff
Going to weld up a cracked head I've got and then fill that from the block deck, up 1.5-2 inches from the deck. I'll cast in the woods metal beforehand into the top of the water jackets by the exhaust runners and steam port, melt it out afterwords and drill passages from the deck to the void left to keep some water flowing, especially around the exhaust ports.

Weighed the car again, 2932lbs with me and 3/4 tank of fuel, so minus 150lbs of me and 71 lbs of fuel it is 2711 after the six speed and heavy flywheel went in. Since the last time I weighed it I also took out the sound deadening material under the carpet in the front of the car, that was about 20 lbs on its own. Last time it was weighed it was 2700 with me in it, so 2650. Six speed and heavy FW added only 160lbs or thereabouts.
ETA: add to that weight difference the fuel lift pump, intercooler pump, water, res, and radiator, as those were not in the car last time I weighed it. Call it 150lbs that the car got heavier from the fw and transmission
 
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Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
Whew - your car is light, or more likely, mine is heavy...I'm 3400 with me (200) and ~3/4 tank of fuel. This was before the 2nd turbo so maybe 30lb more now?

What are you trying to do with the cylinder head?
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Whew - your car is light, or more likely, mine is heavy...I'm 3400 with me (200) and ~3/4 tank of fuel. This was before the 2nd turbo so maybe 30lb more now?
you already said that last september :p
3400-270=3130-2710=420 lbs heavier, easy to come up with that in rear seats, electric windows, extra doors, skidplate, trunk (if it's a jetta) that oversized steel exhaust, etc

cyl head's gotta be stiffer, so I can run more reasonable injection timing
they might hold up if you lower the compression a bunch, but I'm only going to cut the bowls a little bit, cause I dd the pile and don't like white smoke
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Tried welding up the head I posted about earlier ITT, got the airco welder that became the miller 330a/bp. Actually hauled it home in the back of the golf, amazed that it fit. Probably posted pics elsewhere on here. Head kept cracking as it cooled, so I'd chip out more metal and tig that in and it'd crack deeper. Gave up and started thinking more toward lowering compression and decking the block and head dead flat, as the fire ring waves in the HG do eventually wear into the block and head over a few thousand heat cycles and others have commented on having troubles from this. Next time it's apart (once it gets colder) I'll head down that path.

Filled the motor mount with window weld and it's a lot less floppy.

Finally managed to snap one of my welded axle shafts. The short side shaft, I beveled it out and welded it with 6011 rods when I'd first shortened it and it broke right through the weld. I used 7018s this time, and sleeved it with some 1.625" OD tubing.

Going to order some 4340 to make a good shaft once I know what diameter to order, just gotta find a cheap source for the better inner CV joints so I can figure out the OD of stock I need to order. 1.25" stock is large enough for the "bolt type" outer CV's spline (as opposed to the "nut type"). Currently using "tripod" inners, and they use a significantly smaller diameter spline than the outers. The "six ball" type inners supposedly have a much larger spline on the shaft, so I'm on the lookout for them. Just last february I could get them from febest for $40 each, but they're NLA now and the VW dealer wants 300 for the joint.

Another few thousand miles on the car, was getting worse economy (46) for a bit, but I retarded the timing in the cruise range from 10 deg to 7 and gained it right back to 48.

Not much of an update, but it's something.
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH

guess I found the limit of the trans mount
gonna weld it back up and fill it with window weld

really getting tired of pulling this garbage apart

think I'll get an automatic car someday and just run a dumb hx35 or s200 or something.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
decided to use up my PTO at work, so the car came apart

I'm not sure if I'm reworking the atmospheric turbo position to fit the transfer case, or cutting the pistons so the coolant res stops pressurizing itself with exhaust. I'll figure out what I'm gonna do with my life eventually.:eek:
Motor mount I had no idea it was broken until it was mostly apart, in fact I'd just opened the hood for greengeeker a couple days before and took the airbox out to show off the shift linkage, neither of us noticed it was cracked a half inch open. :p

May as well walk out and take some pics of progress, gimmie a few...

dumped the motor out on the ground, thinking hard on studs for the motor mounts, def gonna do them for the dogbone bolts in the trans, threads are just about pulled out of the trans case, prolly helicoil them 12x1.75 instead of the 12x1.5 they are from the factory, haven't looked at what the engine mount bolts are threaded, I'd assume the same 1.5.
Dogbone has to be shortened with the 0A6, factory's like 8ish inches from the K-member flange to the bolt hole, new one needs to be 6.5", been meaning to put a real stiff bushing in the bolt end anyways. Maybe a rod end bearing, I do really like those things.

guest appearance by transverse engine hoist bar thing, my grandpa made it a while ago, works nice, when I need more travel I use a chinese cable yanker instead of the threaded deal.

so much junk, no mo room
Atmospheric is either going angled out compressor inducer pointed toward the lf headlight, or just smashed up more parallel to the HP rather than angled down as it is.

some more angles

I posted that I'd broken the other axle shaft a while ago, but this one obviously wasn't far behind. 4140ht usually isn't hardened anywhere near where it's at its peak strength.

Got a couple LF inner joints to fit the trans, the six ball style rather than the tripod ones. Outer spline on them is slightly larger than 1.25" OD, so much beefier than the little tiny spline on the tripods. For the outer CV joints, the bolt style have a much larger shaft spline than the nut style. The spline that goes into the hub is the same, you just need to shorten the bolt or it does get smashed on the end by the CV innards.

ETA: oh right, gonna try my hand at making some 4340 shafts and having them heat treated. Hope I can find a friendly heat treater...
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Well, cut up the interstage exhaust adapter to try and compactify things to fit the transfer case in there. Both turbos need bearings, .020" of axial slop. :\ Sucks because they've only got a few thousand miles on them. Might be pushing them too hard. Might need more oil pressure. Might just have crap in the oil. Guess I'll find out...

Was thinking maybe triples in the future with the hx40 atop the current set, but low end airflow is useless anyways due to the tiny little rod bearings.
At this point I'm kind of thinking of going with a 5cm housing on the TD04HL-19t and running that as the HP side, and 60x83mm 16cm hx40 as LP. Should be able to make it a little easier to work on as well if I can manage to route everything well.
 

Exenos

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Location
Ontario
TDI
02 Golf
Sounds like your trying to compete with andy if your talking about an hx40. I'd really like to see that.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
Gave up and started thinking more toward lowering compression and decking the block and head dead flat, as the fire ring waves in the HG do eventually wear into the block and head over a few thousand heat cycles and others have commented on having troubles from this. Next time it's apart (once it gets colder) I'll head down that path.

I'm thinking it would be ideal to deck the block/cyl head while it is under the same simulated condition as if the cyl head with gasket were torqued down :cool:

Everybody gets excited about using a torque plate for boring/honing the cylinders but what about the deck? The deck does distort quite a bit around the head bolt holes especially when ARP's are cranked down.
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Well, the only way I can come up with to do that is to hand scrape the fit.
Kind of hard to deck a surface which is bolted to a plate while you're grinding it.

They'd use an extremely thin coating of spotting blue on one flange, torque the flanges to spec, disassemble and check the fitup by the transfer of the blue. Eventually you end up with a bit of wave in the surface of one of the flanges, lowest right around the bolt holes and highest furthest out from the bolt holes. Seals a thousand psi with only linseed oil as a gasket.

This sort of fitting however is totally a dead art. You can still run into guys doing hand scraping in machine tool rebuilding, but scraping in steam fitting hasn't been done in long enough that the process is pretty well forgotten. Those that did the work guarded their secrets, so they could continue to be valuable.

I've got a few surface plates long out of calibration and have thought hard about learning to scrape, as it could at its most basic application allow me to relieve the deck away from the cylinders by a few tenths. Leave a high spot in a ring around each cylinder protruding up a couple thousandths.

1.8t guys cut a wide groove in their block deck around the liners over the water jacket ports, both to run coolant through it, and more importantly to reduce the contact area with the head increasing point contact load where it counts

A friend who does very expensive things with 4g63s is currently trying out a steel o-ring in an aluminum head atop an MLS gasket, he'll probably blow it up real quick and learn nothing though.
Sounds like your trying to compete with andy if your talking about an hx40. I'd really like to see that.
rofl nope
60x83 isn't all that ridiculous, probably only run 15 psi interstage anyways.

ETA: cut up an 8v 2.0 gas tubular manifold today, beat on a bunch of exhaust tubing making it uglier and uglier, ordered some weld tees instead, haha...
Looks like the td04 will fit behind the engine, the AWIC takes up the space where the larger turbo should sit, but it's going to stay where it is.
Thinking the holset will sit up where the stock airbox would. Exhaust may end up out the fender in front of the wheel with a small muffler in the LF down where a fog lamp or the second smic in a dual setup would normally sit.
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Okay, got it apart and there's certainly a portion where it was leaking. Gonna have the head and block decked. Guess I'll be cutting the pistons with them out of the block. Can balance them this way I guess.
for my own reference
rod bolts, 46 ft/lb, arp lube
mains, 50 ft/lb, oil
Got the 4340 ordered for the shafts, only local place that had it wanted 95 bucks, place in michigan wanted 50, shipped to my door, double you tee eff (is word filtered, oddly enough)
Some pics,

turbos off

couple looks at the gasoline 8v header

and without the other bit

trans off

made an adapter for the flat PP fingers of the 7.25" clutch, usually you'd use an aftermarket TO bearing for a couple hundred dollars

seeing the alignment ring on the back

decent spline engagement despite the washers I had to put on bellhousing bolts for flywheel clearance.

"pot" off the flywheel

apart
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
detail shots of the blown up trans mount

blown apart

further detail of rubber bits

Welded up and reinforced the trans mount.

bling bling, ninjas? I get treadplate out of the drop bin for the same cost as normal plain plate, so why not haha

block deck

head surface

detail of where it was leaking

rod bearing, thought a few times about getting sputter bearings but for a hundred bucks plus airmail I think these are just getting reused, they look fairly normal
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
So, got the motor together

fixed the problem of no timing pointer with the new trans

transfer punch marks from both sides of piston stop, .100" is 1 deg on this circumference. I only made a TDC mark, thought about making extra punches for a few degrees to either side, but why bother, pump timing is guess and check anyways

Guess I never got pics of the finished pistons, routered them out with an edge trim bit, dremelled the little fin left down near where the bearing on the router bit was running, then used a 1/8" rad bit to round over the lip. Balanced them and the rods, one piston was 4 grams off, and you have to remove a shocking amount of aluminum to make up that difference.

LP is now HP and needs external WG, so I decided to make the internal WG an external feature while welding it up, that way if welds break and the part breaks off it doesn't eat the LP turbine.

Manifold was a lot of work, only progress pic I got of that.

Motor in, LP ended up sorta close to where it is laying in the pic, little bit left back and up, already dropped the motor out again, haven't taken pics in a while actually, these are a week old or more I think

Tcase is a very tight squeeze, gotta clearance the turbo a little bit now that the tcase is actually assembled.

Might be able to sneak LP turbo oil drain past there, I'll at least try to...
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Long time no update again.
Got the LP mounted up and the intermediate pipe made and wrapped.

The hood does indeed close.

Radiator hose will be a tight fit, along with the coolant temp sensor.

Kinda curious where I'll jam the battery...

Messy wiring.

a look down the back, fiberglass doesn't normally get me itchy, but pulling this stuff tight managed to get it in me

Hose clamps re much nicer than the metal 'zip ties' they give you

another look above the Tcase

The 4340 for the axles finally showed up, turned them down, splined them on the metal shaper and had them heat treated to 47RC. Really should have took pics of the process again, but w/e. Was gonna paint them black but my older brother stole all my black paint. He's got his own damn house, he can afford his own paint. Well, ugly blue it is.
Now the center shaft inside the Tcase should be the weak point. Shame as it is only available here in the audi TT-RS so if it's broke that puts me outta commission for while. All the more reason to get the 4wd going soon.

Made an adapter for the turbo oil drains, it goes on the TD04, the bottom one goes to the oil pan, one top one goes to the LP turbo, and the other top one goes to the side of the block. What a mess!


Got an a/w ic in for going where the side mount was. Thought about getting a better air to air, but I've already got the pump and rad in there may as well run another one. Kinda sucks as this one'll be mounted low, if it leaks it'll hydrolock while running rather than while cranking which was a big reason for putting the HP one in the intake manifold. Of course being a chinese intercooler it does leak little. Gonna see what I can do with an epoxy sealer.
 
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Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
use a 150 jet or small intentional boostleak or so at the lowest point so the water can drain.

I remember Laurie also had to do this in his jet boat because when running on icy water the was building lots of condensating in the a/w intercooler
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
60x86mm 16cm housing hx40

I was thinking about doing just that. I think I remember volvo had the same thing on their intercoolers, and they had a pad under it to catch the drips, part of a service was replacing the pad, haha.
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Got the second a/w mostly mounted, just waiting on some piping

One big hangup I'm having is the downpipe, it can't really be run inside the car's body. Either I can put it out the hood, or high on the fender just above the LF wheel... Can't seem to sneak it past the bumper cover brackets behind the LF headlight to at least get it down a ways, and wrapping it around the strut above the wheel well and down between the wheel and door would need me to make a lot of oval shaped tubing. More welding than I'd like to devote to it.

Only problem with all this is that I drive with my window down any time it's over 30F
Having trouble figuring which will get the exhaust further away. I'd hate to have to run a 2' hood stack, or an elbow dumping down over the wheel opening toward the street... Too flashy, even with rusted pipe.
 

BigTurboAlh

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Location
Pa
TDI
06 ranger cjaa swap
I run around 16 to 1 compression. I daily drive it without white smoke just bumped up the timing map. It starts like stock. Can’t wait to see how yours holds up. What was your drive pressure when hg went? I’m in the middle of doing a hx30/hx40 compounds on my ranger. Also just curious if your using the ecu to control boost or mbc? Sorry if you already said some of this stuff I’m still reading your build thread
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
when it had the VNT HP it had the ECU controlling the vanes up to 18 PSI, then they just went full open and I had an external gate set to a PR of 2, with manifold under the diaphragm, interstage boost atop. LP has always been just a dumb internal wastegate. I hang more drum brake springs on them for more boost, just run the line direct to whatever it goes to.

This latest one has external WG again for HP and internal for LP.
Pressures were 40/50 int/exh, but really I just screwed up not decking the head and block when I had it apart the first time.
 

BigTurboAlh

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Location
Pa
TDI
06 ranger cjaa swap
Decking does wonders for the mls style gaskets. I blew my first gasket with my 54mm hx30 at 40psi 20* timing after that I learned my lesson. Decking and decompressing is key.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
I'd be very tempted to swap out the hx40 turbine for the hx35/h1C.The 64mm hx40 turbine exducer is getting into big boy territory !

With lowish PR from your Low pressure compressor an hx35 (60mm exducer) turbine should work much better in every way possible.

I run a 58mm (hx40) comp inducer on my 5.9L cummins with an hx35 12cm turbine housing.Also I run a quick spool valve to divert all 6 cyl's into one side of the housing to make clean power off the line with the manual trans.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
I'm not really tempted to mess with it because it was a nice new factory reman when I got it. Even had the balance paint on the turbine.
Have thought of QSVing it if I need to, it'd make it an 8cm housing which would light up quick enough for sure. As it is I figure it's got to light up before 4k rpm when it's got 18 PSI from the TD04 helping it along.
We'll see how it goes. Ratios are pretty close on the tiguan trans.
 

Turbo Z

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Location
Sweden
TDI
Audi A2 mercedes c270
Andy
Have you ever evaluate what is best in early spool, twin scroll system with short manifold or quick spool valve?
 
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