New Kerma tune

Hello. Asking for a friend, but curious what people’s thoughts are on having tunes in the 3rd gen 2.0 TDIs and the effects on our new long warranty. Kerma has an impressive new tune my friend is ordering and it comes with the loader tool, so if it ever had to go in, the tune could be removed. Is there any way for the dealer to know it was tuned before coming in? I’ve heard horror stories about VINs being red flagged and cars being stripped of warranty, but was curious what the opinions here were. Thanks. I searched around a little but didn’t find an answer so here I am. If this has been covered, then simply pointing me in that direction would be great.

They can tell there was a flash, but they will not be able to tell what it was flashed with.

Thank you.

The guided fault finding system can flag a car automatically if the flash counters don't match service history, and that's one heck of a warranty to lose. All of the major tuners make around the same power, there's no magic formula for a stock motor.

Owain@malonetuning said:

The guided fault finding system can flag a car automatically if the flash counters don't match service history, and that's one heck of a warranty to lose. All of the major tuners make around the same power, there's no magic formula for a stock motor.

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Your first part may be true, but has anyone ever been denied warranty service because of the number of ECU flashes on their car? My '15 had been reflashed three times prior to sale. I doubt the dealer will be able to make an absolute determination of what's been done and not done by an authorized VW dealer. And I doubt they'd even check.

And a lot of us don't think all tunes are alike, even on stock hardware.

Haven't had any issues with VW customers, probably due to the severity of the scandal since they're not really in a position to go after people for having illegal software on the vehicles, but Audi is starting to crack down more and it will trickle over to VW with time. This covers most of it https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7492

Totally agree there, power is only part of the story, two cars might run the same 1/4 but feel completely different. EGTs are the main limiting factor on a stock setup though.

That's a good write up. And I suspect that the best strategy for people who care about the warranty is to leave the car stock until they're no longer concerned about it or the warranty expires. I haven't taken any car to a dealer since 2004 for any work, warranty or otherwise, and have no intention of starting now, but I realize I'm the exception.

I can tell you when I was at Chevy and had any injection pump failures on the Duramax, I'd have to call GM TAC and give them the last few digits on the current software. If it didn't match what GM had on file the pump warranty was denied. And anytime the dealership updates any ECU the software version stays in the history of the VIN. So it wouldn't be like another dealer updated the software and would cause the number to be off. This is what's stalling me on tuning my 15. Pretty big warranty gamble for now.

Dieseline said:

I can tell you when I was at Chevy and had any injection pump failures on the Duramax, I'd have to call GM TAC and give them the last few digits on the current software. If it didn't match what GM had on file the pump warranty was denied. And anytime the dealership updates any ECU the software version stays in the history of the VIN. So it wouldn't be like another dealer updated the software and would cause the number to be off. This is what's stalling me on tuning my 15. Pretty big warranty gamble for now.

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If you reflashed with the stock file, wouldn’t the numbers have matched?

No, it adds a digit everytime it gets flashed. So the stock software number may have originally end in 123, after tuning and then taking the tune out the number would now be 125, or 123-2. I've seen different endings as the trucks got newer with dpfs. And as a tech we don't know what your software number should be, that's why TAC requires it before authorization for a warranty pump. If those numbers don't match, it's an instant decline. It's not up to the tech or the dealer, the manufacturer knows it's been tuned. I left the dealer in 11, it maybe even easier now for them to detect. Especially with the popularity of OBD2 tuning and people believing they can just put their stock tune back in and be fine. Just doesn't work.

Interesting. Thanks.

My understand is that VW's flash counter doesn't operate the same as you describe GM's. The ECU flash counter isn't, I'm told, immediately visible to a tech working on the vehicle. They can access it, but they may not during warranty service.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

My understand is that VW's flash counter doesn't operate the same as you describe GM's. The ECU flash counter isn't, I'm told, immediately visible to a tech working on the vehicle. They can access it, but they may not during warranty service.

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Yes it is different,but is very visible to VW techs. It will set a TD1 flag. The link that Owain posted up above explains it all, in very good detail.

Actually, I don't think that link is clear. The poster says a tuned car can easily be flagged by the diagnostic system, as can a car that comes to the dealer with a "locked" tune (whatever that is). But the post doesn't specifically say that the car will get flagged for number of ECU flashes. Perhaps it does, but the post isn't clear on that.

Have you seen TD1 on a VW dealer scan in North America? I noticed the screen shot in the post shows kilometers on the car, so I assume it's in Canada or Europe. And it's Audi, not VW.

I haven't read a single post from a VW owner who tuned their car, returned it to stock to take it in for warranty work, and then had the warranty service denied. But that said, at this point I'm not willing to risk my warranty. My car needs a tune in the worst way, but I'm going to try to resist the temptation for the 2-year CPO period at least.

There are also ways to flash the tune without raising the flash counter, nor changing the reported flash version. The only way they would be able to tell is if they actually read the tune themselves and compared.


Now BMW on the other hand, has this stored telemetry data which records rpm, fueling quantity, boost, and many other variables in intervals or especially when a fault is set. This telemetry gets transferred to the dealer computer and can be scrutinized for extra data related to faults or modifications. BMW calls this FASTA.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

My understand is that VW's flash counter doesn't operate the same as you describe GM's. The ECU flash counter isn't, I'm told, immediately visible to a tech working on the vehicle. They can access it, but they may not during warranty service.

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The flash counter on newer VW's can be easily accessed with VCDS if you ever feel like looking at it. Since VW now keeps all their diagnostic software stuff in "the cloud" rather than pushing it to the hard drives of each dealers PC (which is why the dealer can no longer access SKC's like they used to be able to), anytime a tech plugs into a car to check for codes or software updates, VW sucks all that data from the ECU. VW knows exactly how many flashes each car is supposed to have on it, because the ECU has to talk to their servers anytime it gets an update. What they do with that data is another thing all together.

Okay let me add a data point - took my fixed 13 JSW to VW for warranty work (for a wheel bearing). Tuned by kerma prior to, but took it back to stock just in case. No warranty issues whatsoever.

A tune wouldn't affect a hub bearing warranty, and they also wouldn't need to scan your car to even look for the presence of a tune.

I'd love to tune our Cayenne but at this point with a nice warranty covering it I'm not sure I want to gamble and not have it covered. And I really want to tune it!!

I'd really like to too. Once I went stage 2 Malone with deletes and dsg tune, my 09 was a different car altogether. Much better fuel economy and more fun to drive. Unfortunately the warranty is too sweet for me to piss away. But once warranty is up, should only be a few years, it will get upgraded fast. And hopefully there will be more options for turbos and manifolds by then.

Warranty discussions with these cars are like the buyback discussions: "I really like my TDI, but the buyback $$ is too much to pass up." Now everyone's saying that about the warranty.

First, the fixed cars in stock form drive fine, in my opinion. Second, the extended warranty is designed to replace emissions components that may wear faster than originally intended because the fix puts more stress on those parts. A properly tuned car will stress emissions components less than a fixed stock car, so the need for replacement is less likely. And if you don't like the way the stock car drives, living with it for 150K miles would take a lot of patience, in my opinion.

I like tuned TDIs. I enjoy the improvement in performance. And I'm willing to take the risk that, if I need emissions components replaced, I'll be able to get it done. But it's unlikely I'll drive my '15 enough miles during the warranty period to need any repairs, unless my rotary pump TDIs all give out on me.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Warranty discussions with these cars are like the buyback discussions: "I really like my TDI, but the buyback $$ is too much to pass up." Now everyone's saying that about the warranty.

First, the fixed cars in stock form drive fine, in my opinion. Second, the extended warranty is designed to replace emissions components that may wear faster than originally intended because the fix puts more stress on those parts. A properly tuned car will stress emissions components less than a fixed stock car, so the need for replacement is less likely. And if you don't like the way the stock car drives, living with it for 150K miles would take a lot of patience, in my opinion.

I like tuned TDIs. I enjoy the improvement in performance. And I'm willing to take the risk that, if I need emissions components replaced, I'll be able to get it done. But it's unlikely I'll drive my '15 enough miles during the warranty period to need any repairs, unless my rotary pump TDIs all give out on me.

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I agree with this thought process 100+%.....especially the bold red....LOL

Most likely we wont own our Passat to see it hit 150K, I have the feeling the wife will want something different before 100K, Heck that will be about 8-10 years worth of the same car/platform.

It'd all depend what the market has to offer and right now, nothing short of stupid money could touch the Passat for us.