Had 97K Belt Kit put in now timing +12 degrees

The shop that did it says the 97k kit recommeneded on this forum is to blame
and he will not make it good. What do I do?????


Is he right? Can timing be off if mark lines up??

Help!

Sounds like the idiot doesn't know what he is doing to me. Get a guru in to look it over.

How was the timing checked? The timing should be close if the marks line up - and checking the timing must be done in "basic" mode of the VagCom (or equivalent). Have the timing really checked. How far are you from Fullerton?
Also - have you run the car? If so, how does it run?

Hi, The engine is quite noisy. It sounds like a Mac truck. There is a delay in the power at low speeds until higher RPM's reached.

Took it to a VW dealer and they put it on their system to check. They gave me a printout which said +20

Also check light errors said injectors were running a bit flaky.

Talked to Leonard at W Rose motors and plan to take it to him.
He said the install was likely botched.

I guess I should take the garage who did the work to small claims.

You bet you better take them to small claims court. Demand to see the lock down tools. You want photos of them. I bet they don't have any. Pull the plastic cover and look for painted marks. Only a**holes and idiots use painted marks to do a VW TB. The 100K kit did it.....yeah sure.....The friggin parts are from OEM VW suppliers. What a moron.

I have to give every shop the benifit of a mistake but the fact that he would not make the repair good unless I repurchased direct dealer parts really got me goin hence the post here.

I agree this guy's nutz. Leonard can't do it until next week
so I'll take it back to Bozanni motors West Covina for a final checkout.
If it's just the pump I'll breath a sigh of relief and have em just fix it.

Thanks guys for the confirmation on the kit. I knew he was wrong but this seals it. Any other comments or suggestions are immedialy welcomed and appreciated!

Added: The test was VA 5051B 006-basic setting advance read 20.5 2000 new beetle TDI

Cheers
G

Please post the name of the shop so we can not send anyone to him.

jasonTDI said:

Please post the name of the shop so we can not send anyone to him.

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Duama & Day Auto Service
A Siam Minh Co.
502 W. Duarte Rd,
Monrovia, CA, 91016


FYI: They did a brake job on my TDI earlier in the year and the work was perfect. Price was $450.

And how much did they charge you for this fine TB service?

chromeBuddha said:

And how much did they charge you for this fine TB service?

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The shop that screwed it up charged $1390 for labor. I bought the kit.
To be fair the kit was Diesel Geeks top of the line kit with all pullys and WP plus 80K belt. Moer labor I'm sure.

Bozanni Moters West Covina CA reset timing belt and corrected it for $300 bucks. The timing printout now shows +8 degrees advance.

I highly recommed this dealer. They say just a timing belt change is 6 hours labor charge. The service Manager there's name is Jessie. They have an German Mechanic that does the Diesels.

timeline said:

The shop that screwed it up charged $1390 for labor.

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I don't mean to beat up on you when you're down, but...

Since you followed the advice here to get the Dieselgeek kit, why didn't you also follow the advice to go to Leonard Harview to have the timing belt change, even if you have to wait for him to have time ???

He would have done the job perfectly the first time, and you would have spent a LOT less money !!!

Good luck!!

Yuri.

timeline said:

Duama & Day Auto Service
A Siam Minh Co.
502 W. Duarte Rd,
Monrovia, CA, 91016


FYI: They did a brake job on my TDI earlier in the year and the work was perfect. Price was $450.

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Thanks. Good for other work, just not TB's.

I do front and rear pads and rotors for far less than that.

Leonard is a LONG way away from him.

Maybe I should move to So. LA. The wife REALLY want to get out of WI. hmmmm.....any other suggestions of places to move to?

Jason there is allot more money and VW's in SO Calif

You are right about that.....No more P.A. School.....yeah! I'd like to do it but......School sucks especially when it's the 2ND time around 15+ years out.

ymz said:

I don't mean to beat up on you when you're down, but...

Since you followed the advice here to get the Dieselgeek kit, why didn't you also follow the advice to go to Leonard Harview to have the timing belt change, even if you have to wait for him to have time ???

He would have done the job perfectly the first time, and you would have spent a LOT less money !!!

Good luck!!

Yuri.

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I did call Leonard but he was always booked and needed several weeks to get to the car. Many reasons! Leonards shop is a ways away. I have no way to even get home if I drop the car off. My 81 year old mom can't drive that far and I wouldnt want her too.

Also, I had to make a decision to give up the car for a while with
Leonard or get it done instantly. I drive my kid every school day 120 miles round trip and this is the only auto.

I called WRM just last week and missed him again. Leonard would not have gotten to the car until tomorrow for the rework. Bozzani got to it immrdiatly and it was done Monday.

We all have choices to make depending on our situation. I did the best I could. I just got ripped off, that's all.

PA school Physicians Assistant - I was in college to be a PA when I became disabled.

$1400 labor and you bought the kit!!!!! HOLY S--T!!!! hEY Jason, i'm following you out there. I'm lucky if i can charge that for a tb + head removal and head work combined!!

AND HE SCREWED IT UP--would it have been more if he did it right???

What's the break point between small claims and large claims...this was outrageous. The labor should have been maybe 1/2 again what the other shop charged to fix, $450...and done right. How did they justify that amount? Maybe they reassembled and dissembled for each part replaced...

Small claims is up to 5,000 here.

I'm just so glad it's over I don't want to even deal with it at this point but maybe a BBB letter would do some good.

I think also Reagan, when he was Gov. set up a Sacramento office for such complaints of faulty workmanship.

Small claims would only net me the cost to set it straight, bout 300 bucks but the time to file and hypertension would be tuff on me.

timeline - just having been through a small claims action due to a dealership mistake i think i can offer some advice.

first off, i'm certainly not a lawyer..however, unless someone with detailed knowledge of the legal system in california told you that you could only recover the costs to make it right i'd have to disagree.

from the basic details you've listed, it sounds like a standard breach of contract action. you contracted them to perform a specific function and when it was done the contracted function was not completed successfully - despite payment being accepted.

in fact, if my situation is any kind of a guideline, you can also include the costs necessary to make the situation right in your action - i sure as heck did...

at any rate, glad to hear that you have it running well now - feel free to post up or contact me if you have any questions about small claims.

I don't think it would be easy !!

The shop claimed that the parts in the kit supplied by Timeline were defective and caused the problem, and it would be up to Timeline to prove otherwise... How would he go about that ?? Expert testimony isn't cheap nor easily available for small-claims court cases...

Yuri.

ymz said:

I don't think it would be easy !!

The shop claimed that the parts in the kit supplied by Timeline were defective and caused the problem, and it would be up to Timeline to prove otherwise... How would he go about that ?? Expert testimony isn't cheap nor easily available for small-claims court cases...

Yuri.

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Yes Yuri that's likely true. I guess the other side of this point is I offered the kit to them and they accepted the job. Either way it's a toss up for $300 bucks, I think a few letters would go a long way and hurt them more over time. I feel obligated to do that anyway.

If I cared about money was younger and was in better health
myself, I would go for it. The city this shop is in is Monrovia and in my opinion, a bit of a kangaroo court environment. I may be wrong but I feel the Judges favor local businesses.

I think it would be good to mention the Liability with this whole special kit issue on this forum when suggesting kits from outside VW. Maybe a Liability sticky with a list would be helpful.

Had I just had them put in dealer parts they acquired, I could have likely gotten back most of the money.

I personally love the fact that I can count on the good people of this forum to offer the absolute best advise for TDI's and appreciate all the help but I do wish there was a way to work out this parts issue and situation for myself and others in the future.

Thanks again

It's just a simple example of an inept shop. Period. They are CTA's for there lack of knowledge and experience. What's the difference in the parts? How could they me manufactured that differently and still fit? Hmmmm..... They are just stupid and arrogant to think this. That's a dangerous combination and the reason so many people hate car repairs. I'd demand to know what was so different and then if they were why was the DEALER able to get it in time? Again ask to see the lock down tools and or look for paint marks under the timing belt cover. That would show there "superior method".

ARRRGGHHHHH!!!!! I see this a LOT and even from some local experienced" VW shops that have been in business for many years. Short cuts.....they lead to disaster.

You're right... When we recommend getting one of the parts kits from the vendors on this site we should mention that if you go to a commercial garage to have them installed, they may not guarantee their work... of course, we try to steer people towards the Gurus and the Reliable Mechanics as well as trying to convince those who are able to do so to perform the timing belt change themselves, as they're the ones who care about their cars the most...

The problem is that most commercial establishments try to cram as many jobs per day as they're able to do, so they take shortcuts more often than would be prudent... most of the time they get away with it, but as we hear so often, there are consequences... (VW dealers aren't immune from this, as anyone who hangs around here has found out...)

Too bad you got stuck with this... we all feel for you !!!!

Yuri.

jasonTDI said:

It's just a simple example of an inept shop. Period. They are CTA's for there lack of knowledge and experience. What's the difference in the parts? How could they me manufactured that differently and still fit? Hmmmm..... They are just stupid and arrogant to think this. That's a dangerous combination and the reason so many people hate car repairs. I'd demand to know what was so different and then if they were why was the DEALER able to get it in time? Again ask to see the lock down tools and or look for paint marks under the timing belt cover. That would show there "superior method".

ARRRGGHHHHH!!!!! I see this a LOT and even from some local experienced" VW shops that have been in business for many years. Short cuts.....they lead to disaster.

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The VW dealer did find paint marks BTW. What does that mean?

timeline said:

The VW dealer did find paint marks BTW. What does that mean?

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That means that the garage used the "Mark & Pray" method... they put paint marks on the old belt and the pulleys, transfer the markings to the new belt, and put it in, aligning the marks...

They may get lucky and the engine may run in an acceptable manner, but... too much error creeps in, as the old belt will have stretched, changing the relationship between the crankshaft, camshaft, and pump... as well, this assumes that the old belt was put in correctly...

The right way to do this is to lock everything down in the proper position and then install the belt... not really that difficult, but it takes a bit longer and you need the proper lock-down tools...

As Jason said, incompetent, but... establishing liability, that's another story...

Yuri.

Yikes!

timeline - it's your call whether or not you pursue action. I'd be stunned if you weren't allowed to pursue the whole amount, plus the $300.

However, it'll be time consuming and annoying - mine took a year of letters, phone calls, documentation, testing, etc. and then a 30 minute court date. Actually, the court appearance was the easiest part of the whole situation.

As to proving failure or otherwise, that's really not timeline's problem. A simple statement of "on such and such date, I took the car to XYZ shop for specified repair/issue. Car was returned on such and such date with XYZ shop stating it was repaired and in proper working condition. Car was not returned in proper operating condition as evidenced by symptom, behavior, etc. Subsequently, car went to ABC dealer on such and such date, ABC dealer confirmed car was running out of factory spec and proceeded to return car to said spec using parts already installed by XYZ shop. ABC dealer commented that parts were marked with identifying marks, something not to spec for this repair, etc...."

Provided the parts given to the shop were VW parts marked with proper part numbers, etc. then that should establish their veracity....

Like I said, though, the decision ultimately is timeline's. I can appreciate if he doesn't want to fight it or deal with it. Sometimes, other priorities take hold. Having said that, timeline, I took on one of the largest VW dealerships in my area and had really no trouble presenting my case to a judge.

I guess my last point would be to say that I didn't want to try and cause a huge debate; However, I did want to offer up a differing point of view given my recent experience taking a dealership/shop to court over a botched repair. I did want to point out it is possible to fight and win - there were many times during my fight where I thought I should just drop it. However, a few close attorney friends as well as some club members here kept me focused....

Thanks for the support. I'll think about it...