///// Cannon Ball run in a jetta tdi ?? ////

Hi all,

I was searching around YouTube looking at car related stuff and stumbled upon Cannonball Run videos by VINwiki.

It's crazy how fast these guys drove 2825.3miles ....27 hours 25 minutes (average moving speed 103 mph , overall avg speed 98 mph, top speed 193 mph, 4 fuel stops totaling 22 minutes ) but it got me to wondering

Could a TDI powered Jetta or Passat win such a race just because of better fuel mileage ?

Does a Jetta have enough power and durability to make such a run? .... the record-holding car was reported to have 700 to 800 horsepower on tap and while I'm pretty sure I Jettas cannot approach the speed their car was capable of could a fuel laden jetta avoid stopping for fuel thus saving 22 minutes potentially ( ok maybe 1 fuel stop would be needed?).

I wonder what kind of fuel mileage a Jetta would get doing 103 miles per hour? ( I was setting a lowball goal because if a Jetta could just average 103 miles per hour over the run and make fuel stops less than their car did then it would win just by getting better and fuel mileage! )

So as an interesting mental exercise ( unless you really wanna do it .... fingers crossed) ..

what would be your Jetta or Passat to make such a run? What mods etc ....

Andrew

Not a chance. Maybe look into the record more. The factor is road conditions and traffic overall. Basically it would take a huge stroke of luck to beat the new record. If fuel economy was a big enough factor vs speed and stealth then I'm sure they would have used one.

Those guys outfit their cars with more radar electronics than a F-22. Many also employ chase and lookout vehicles.
Honestly doesn't sound like much fun any longer. You're better off to put Smokey and the Bandit on the tube and enjoy yourself at home.

Car and Druver magazine sponsored a modified (turbo, large fuel cell, etc) Jetta (?) back in the 1970/80's (?) in the Cannonball. (Perhaps the Cannonball Baker Memorial Run) Brock Yates and a co-driver planned a non-fueling run coast to coast. Can't recall if they finished and if they did where in the standings, it's been a long time ago.
Things have changed a lot since simple CB radio and Smokey sightings from supporters.
Wrong link, not related to their Cannonball run. Still searching...
https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...try-volkswagen-jetta-voyage-archived-feature/

The thing of it is that everyone says it cant be done. If you think you can, got for it and set a new record. Everyone said the same thing for every attempt sooooo.

Mongler98 said:

The thing of it is that everyone says it cant be done. If you think you can, got for it and set a new record. Everyone said the same thing for every attempt sooooo.

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Yes, it's often thought that records can't be broken ....until they are.

Personally I think it's an amazing accomplishment they did and it would definitely be hard to beat it but I don't think I would be able to do it .... mainly for fear of getting caught speeding that much and or possible death hitting a deer at speed ( not to mention the huge entry fee to do it ... on the official Cannonball site I think it was like $25,000... I'm not even sure why it was that much but it seems like a person could do that unofficially without paying $25,000 just have good tracking devices video camera footage excetera for proof)..

Anyways more for curiosity's sake then anything else

Say one word to modify a Jetta to get 165 horsepower ( I'm going to assume using an alh engine) ... would the engine tolerate 165 horsepower reliably?

What would 165 horsepower do in terms of maximum speed say in Jetta wagon? I have read posts online that many Jettas routinely Cruise the Autobahn at 90 miles an hour but that would need to be bumped up at least 13 miles an hour continuously for almost 28 hours in order to get a record...

What kind of fuel mileage would be realistic when running 103 miles an hour?

I was mainly attempting a Cannonball Run in my mind ... seeing if it was even possible carry an entire fuel load for no stops that distance at speed...

One idea I was working through just driving the other night was fueling on the go.... or possibly having a fuel truck sitting on the side of the road with a fire truck type high flow capability for greatly reduced fueling times...

Another thought I had although it may not technically meet the criteria of the Run is would a trophy truck be a possible contender?

Although a trophy truck would be hard to disguise as a civilian vehicle the fact that it can go off-road at speed may actually be able to cut distance from the Run and if enough distance is cut perhaps a trophy truck can make the Cannonball Run faster than driving all on Surface roads ( I know that may be considered cheating but hey it's still driving from point A to point B just a matter of how you get there). .... maybe a miniaturised TDI powered trophy truck!

Andrew

If they only used 22 minutes fueling the entire trip there is no way the Jetta will beat that. It will go nowhere near the top speeds they did. Your average speed will drop and total time go up by quite a bit.

A huge fuel cell in the back and some air lift 1000 bags in the springs to support the weight plus some sway bars, it think you could do it. With a little better turbo, and some tunes for the right power and fuel economy I bet it’s possible. I have a 15 Passat TDI with a Malone Stage 2 so somewhere near 165hp I pulled a U-Haul trailer with a 4wheeler and dirt bike at about 93mph and avg 18mpg from western Nebraska to North Texas. However, the car tops out at 139mph empty. Did that on I-80 and it was 28deg outside.


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Start with a .658 5th, or I think there's a lower one, .621? That'll get you
cruising at a 100. The logistical support you need though is pricey,
doable obviously. You'll need a bunch of major mods, with an average
of 103, you clearly need to be able hit 130 or so for sustained periods.


Set a diesel record, under 40hrs would be impressive! It'd be hard to beat a big gasser like the MB they used,
but I do believe a VW TDI took out BMW on an endurance race because they spent a lot less time in the pits for fuel.

335d would do much better, larger fuel tank and 400hp tuned. They're running huge tanks so they only fill up a couple of times, paying for and filling from two pumps at the same time.

Out of 27 hours and 25 minutes they only spent 22 minutes fueling. You will never match that with fuel economy even if you never stopped for fuel. It is minuscule in the big picture.

Lightflyer1 said:

If they only used 22 minutes fueling the entire trip there is no way the Jetta will beat that. It will go nowhere near the top speeds they did. Your average speed will drop and total time go up by quite a bit.

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True, any time spent below their average speed of 103 miles per hour would have to be made up with by traveling a higher speed for a fairly long time..

I would love to see a breakdown of the amount of time they spent in each speed range ...

0 to 10 mph
10 to 20 mph
Etc ...

I can't imagine they stayed at their top end very long but who knows maybe they did ....

As a side note .... I wonder how they stay out of legal trouble given that they say they did all that ?

Lightflyer1 said:

If they only used 22 minutes fueling the entire trip there is no way the Jetta will beat that. It will go nowhere near the top speeds they did. Your average speed will drop and total time go up by quite a bit.

Click to expand...

True, any time spent below their average speed of 103 miles per hour would have to be made up with by traveling a higher speed for a fairly long time..
I would love to see a breakdown of the amount of time they spent in each speed range ...
0 to 10 mph
10 to 20 mph
Etc ...
I can't imagine they stayed at their top end very long but who knows maybe they did ....
As a side note .... I wonder how they stay out of legal trouble given that they say they did all that ?

Got to get caught in the act by the authorities to be charged.

Years ago I knew a guy that drove his ALH at 105 MPH for about 2 hours, he also drove about 200 miles on that tank at 75-80, when he filled up at ~400 miles on the tank his fuel mileage was 39 MPG, based on that I'm guessing that an ALH wagon will get around 35 MPG at 105.

Lightflyer1 said:

Got to get caught in the act by the authorities to be charged.

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not if there is evidence, hence the 1 to 3 year statute of limitations and why they don't reveal it all for at least 1 year to make sure that they don't get busted.

Friend of mine received a speeding ticket in the mail, I think it was from Texas. Radar and camera on an overpass caught his speed and plate number. I don’t know how they could prove him driving, but I think he had to contest it in person

Most of the traffic cameras have the ticket written against the car registrant. It's up to them to prove that they were not driving the car at the time. For rental cars, the ticket comes to the credit card holder. Ask me how I know...

As such, camera tickets cannot be applied to your license or insurance points.

But they can cause you a ton of problems and hassle. Many decades ago I got a ticket in California for riding a motorcycle on the shoulder of the road. My BIL told me this was allowed. What he didn't explain was you can do it in the lanes between cars where it is highly unsafe but not on the actual left or right extra wide shoulder where it is relatively safe to do. I was putting along (maybe a fast walking speed) in bumper to bumper SF traffic on the left most wide shoulder when CHIPS pulled me over and ticketed me. Was a real hassle to deal with and ended up paying the fine just to take care of it.

You can ride, but you can’t hide. I’m glad I didn’t have to put up with all this technology when I was in my 20s, the arm of the law was long enough already

Mine was nearly 40 years ago. Even then they had enough technology to make life difficult. More so today.

Lightflyer1 said:

But they can cause you a ton of problems and hassle. Many decades ago I got a ticket in California for riding a motorcycle on the shoulder of the road. My BIL told me this was allowed. What he didn't explain was you can do it in the lanes between cars where it is highly unsafe but not on the actual left or right extra wide shoulder where it is relatively safe to do. I was putting along (maybe a fast walking speed) in bumper to bumper SF traffic on the left most wide shoulder when CHIPS pulled me over and ticketed me. Was a real hassle to deal with and ended up paying the fine just to take care of it.

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Hmmm, passing standing/slow traffic on the shoulder of the road/highway and making his own interpretation of safe traffic practices, irregardles of laws.......Something strikes me as odd here..........oh yeah! Aren't you the party who accused me of being the scourge of the earth and bad influence on todays youth for encouraging someone to depress their accelerator pedal?

jmodge said:

Hmmm, passing standing/slow traffic on the shoulder of the road/highway and making his own interpretation of safe traffic practices, irregardles of laws.......Something strikes me as odd here..........oh yeah! Aren't you the party who accused me of being the scourge of the earth and bad influence on todays youth for encouraging someone to depress their accelerator pedal?

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As far as I knew at the time I was obeying the law and nothing I was doing was any less safe (probably more safe) than driving mid lane between cars. At 3 mph or so things just aren't that life threatening or critical. Not to mention I am not encouraging anyone to do anything. Much to the opposite, someone can learn from my mistake and get the exact knowledge "before" driving in a different state with different laws (as I am from Texas). I also doubt I accused you of being the "scourge of the earth" as you put it, but go on believing that if you want. Encouraging others to break the speed limit though is a lot different than what I just posted I did. It does also make you a bad influence on others.

I must be conversing with upper management

jmodge said:

I must be conversing with upper management

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Or you just put up a bad argument with an unequal comparison of events and added some sensationalist name calling on yourself.

do things illegal (ignorance is not an excuse) pay fines / take points, complain about how life isn't fair or something.


sounds right.

Just pay your fine and move on.

best story i have on this topic was a speeding ticket i got on OH turnpike back in 2009 day before thanksgiving. that was the day i drove my 2002 TDI from Logan UT to Frederick MD 2100 miles in change in 27 hours. LOL. anyways a ticket for 92 mph. i called into the state office about it and asked what happens if i don't pay. they say we just remove your licence from OH. im like oh im 22yp and never want to go back lol, what ever. WELL 3 years later when i was driving my mk3 TDI i eventually racked up enough points (i always had some) that i got a suspension for 9 days. When i went back to the MVA for my license to be renewed, they said NO you have a red flag in ohio and we cant issue anything until its cleared. to make a already long story short, i spent 10 hours in the MVA from that moment when they first opened to after they closed on the phone with everyone in the process of making my payment to OH for that ticket. i kid you not i called every 10 minutes waiting and pushing them to get and stamp the fax to send to my MVA and a bunch of other things along the way. It would have been a week to process it otherwise and there was many steps paperwork had to go and i got it all pushed in one day. I left that night with my pride in my boots but a valid license in my wallet. VICTORY WAS MINE

just pay the darn fines and move on lolol

abishoff said:

A huge fuel cell in the back and some air lift 1000 bags in the springs to support the weight plus some sway bars, it think you could do it. With a little better turbo, and some tunes for the right power and fuel economy I bet it’s possible. I have a 15 Passat TDI with a Malone Stage 2 so somewhere near 165hp I pulled a U-Haul trailer with a 4wheeler and dirt bike at about 93mph and avg 18mpg from western Nebraska to North Texas. However, the car tops out at 139mph empty. Did that on I-80 and it was 28deg outside.


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Click to expand...

Interesting MPG figures .... I'm wondering if the slower speed but pulling a trailer would be about the same aero drag as going "just" 10 MPH more with no trailer?

Just guessing , but even knocking MPG down to 15 MPG (because to keep a 103 Average you would have to go somewhat faster alot to make up for times when you have to go slower than 103), that figures out to about 188 gallons of diesel to go 2825 miles ....

Probably should round up to 200 gallons just to be "safe" fuel wise...

I googled diesel weight and it was listed at about 7 lbs per gallon so about 1400 lbs in fuel alone (not including tank weight), people, equipment / food etc...)

I looked at the weight rating on my car and it was listed at 4212 lbs...
googling base weight of car 3161 (different places had different numbers) would yield about 1051 lb cargo weight capacity.

the winning car had 3 people in it but you may be able to get away with just 2 in car at any one time (a spotter and a driver .... I suppose a relief driver can be swapped in on the side of the road to save time / weight BUT maybe realistically the car cannot carry all the fuel it needs to make the run without refueling (because fuel alone would put the car 349 lbs over GVWR .... add in 3 people (avg say 175 lbs) , equipment / supplies say another 75 lbs (?) and that makes the ready to run car about 949 lbs over GVWR .... that is probably a wee bit heavy (well maybe a bit more than a wee bit!).

With that, probably have to admit that the car will need at least 1 Fuel stop BUT I'm thinking custom fuel truck on the side of the road with ultra high fuel flow rate for ultra quick fueling...

On the other hand maybe fueling on the go ? .... jetta pulls along side fuel truck on 2 lane road , passenger grabs hose , jetta pulls ahead of fuel truck (of course long fuel line on hose reel) , and fuels until full and reverses process to give hose back to fuel truck ... probably best to do at night so as not to attract attention.

Hmmm with a little more thought the current record should be easy to beat ! (of course they could do the same but victory would be sweet while it lasted HA) ....

kjclow said:

Most of the traffic cameras have the ticket written against the car registrant. It's up to them to prove that they were not driving the car at the time. For rental cars, the ticket comes to the credit card holder. Ask me how I know...

As such, camera tickets cannot be applied to your license or insurance points.

Click to expand...

They used to have photo cameras in our area but they got rid of them because too many people were pissed with them and tickets ....

My girlfriend was among the last few to get a photo ticket before they removed it.... I think that made her doubly pissed !

I suppose if you go through the trouble of cannonballing maybe remote controlled flip down plates (I saw a you tube on one cool idea ...push button before toll booth / photo toll).... or putting the plate inside a deep frame (visible from straight behind but somewhat obscured form any other angle other than straight on viewing)

Lightflyer1 said:

As far as I knew at the time I was obeying the law and nothing I was doing was any less safe (probably more safe) than driving mid lane between cars. At 3 mph or so things just aren't that life threatening or critical. Not to mention I am not encouraging anyone to do anything. Much to the opposite, someone can learn from my mistake and get the exact knowledge "before" driving in a different state with different laws (as I am from Texas). I also doubt I accused you of being the "scourge of the earth" as you put it, but go on believing that if you want. Encouraging others to break the speed limit though is a lot different than what I just posted I did. It does also make you a bad influence on others.

Click to expand...

Irregardless, (Aka whatever) I am still hopeful that I will get a glimpse of acknowledgment that humor exists in your life

I would be ok with adding the AirLift 1000? Bags into the springs to support the extra weight of fuel. I would guess holding speed near 110 and with a tunes designed to maximize fuel efficiency I’d get 22mpg maybe 25. So maybe only 130-140gallons so near 1000lbs of fuel ain’t to bad. It’d be an interesting test. And if there were some body mods to get better aero dynamics which are gonna play a huge role at that speed and maybe more narrow tires to minimize road contact and resistance.


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