pyankura
Vendor
I will be in Denver for buisness on March 22-26. If anyone would like to meet up please feel free to call or pm.
F1tuning in Denver
- Thread starter pyankura
- Start date
pyankura
Vendor
Is there anybody...............out there?
Farfromovin
Torque Addict
They're all looking. Over 100 views.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Uhh...who are you?
Free bump
Free bump
pyankura
Vendor
Ahhh, we are F1tuning! We do software tuning for all VAG and European cars. I am not a saleman, so I will be blunt and humorous if possible! We know we have a less than wonderful "reputation" here. We do however, have a wonderful product! If I could my esteemed colleague to stop talking more people would find out. Unfortunately this is harder to accomplish than proving the theories of quantum mechanics.
I would like to offer our services at a very generous discount to anyone in the Denver area. So that you can see or better yet feel with you arse instead of us talking out of our's!
If nothing else try it out! And if don't want to, I will buy some beers!
P.S. If anyone shows up, please bring a battery charger( I can hear the crickets already)! I am flying in and won't have room as I am not there just for cars. I am there on buisness for work!
If you want to call ahead 412-877-6816
Pete
I would like to offer our services at a very generous discount to anyone in the Denver area. So that you can see or better yet feel with you arse instead of us talking out of our's!
If nothing else try it out! And if don't want to, I will buy some beers!
P.S. If anyone shows up, please bring a battery charger( I can hear the crickets already)! I am flying in and won't have room as I am not there just for cars. I am there on buisness for work!
If you want to call ahead 412-877-6816
Pete
abctdi said:
dlai
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2002
- Location
- The Insane Asylum Known As CA
- TDI
- 2005 Passat, Stonehenge Gray, 2002 Black Golf 5M
Well, your buddy Tornino is busy making friends again on the APR thread, so I'm guessing you two have burned so many bridges here no one wants to do business with you or him or have anything to do with F1 Tunes. Maybe you two should hire a real saleman, post some dynos, and have your salesman do the talking on this forum rather than you two.
pyankura
Vendor
Buddy.....I am not concerned by the buisness/money! I do this for the love of it, Believe it..or not!
Tonino is not as bad as you think. Anyone who comes to this forum who defies popular belief is going to meet "the" resistance. This is how it is!
We are offering 40 percent off for Denver folks or folks who come to Denver on March 22, 2010!
Tonino is not as bad as you think. Anyone who comes to this forum who defies popular belief is going to meet "the" resistance. This is how it is!
We are offering 40 percent off for Denver folks or folks who come to Denver on March 22, 2010!
dlai said:
dlai
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2002
- Location
- The Insane Asylum Known As CA
- TDI
- 2005 Passat, Stonehenge Gray, 2002 Black Golf 5M
Sorry, I'm no buddy of yours and don't care to be. Resistance? Sorry, poor behavior on a forum does not equal resistance. Slamming other vendors, blowing up ecus at GTGs, and providing little to no proof of gains via dynos is not resistance. It's been the same old thing year after year with Tonino. It's poor marketing and salesmanship from someone who clearly has no clue and who needs you to jump in to clear his name each time. He needs to hire a marketing guy if he's serious about running F1 and making it business people take seriously. Best of luck with your GTG...
pyankura
Vendor
Wow the hostility! You have anger issues man. Stop by sometime and I will buy you a beer or a whiskey or a valium.
Don't take things so personally when they have nothing to do with you! Everybody has made mistakes and that is EVERYBODY! Our's was not handled at all civilly or with honor and it is over. If you risk nothing you learn nothing! First time in ten years something like this happened.
As for you being my buddy, well, don't take that literaly!
Don't take things so personally when they have nothing to do with you! Everybody has made mistakes and that is EVERYBODY! Our's was not handled at all civilly or with honor and it is over. If you risk nothing you learn nothing! First time in ten years something like this happened.
As for you being my buddy, well, don't take that literaly!
dlai said:
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
I'd be willing to try anyone's live tuning if
1. They would show up within an hour of my house
2. The tune would be applicable to my elevation of 5000'
3. Money back guarantee and return to stock tune if not happy
Unfortunately, even though I have invited several tuners to ABQ with SWA airfare instead of cash for payment, none have expressed interest.
Good luck F1 with your Denver trip.
Free bump again.
Too bad others took a negative opportunity at your expense.
1. They would show up within an hour of my house
2. The tune would be applicable to my elevation of 5000'
3. Money back guarantee and return to stock tune if not happy
Unfortunately, even though I have invited several tuners to ABQ with SWA airfare instead of cash for payment, none have expressed interest.
Good luck F1 with your Denver trip.
Free bump again.
Too bad others took a negative opportunity at your expense.
Last edited:
pyankura
Vendor
Ahh, it's our fault things are like this! We do offer a 100% money back guarentee for all no matter where and we give a week. I have to say that none have asked for their money back. They all seemed very happy with the results.
I am not traveling to Denver for tuning I am there for my "real job" buisness. So if no one shows up, I don't lose anything. I do travel all over the US though. Lately, they have been short trips that don't need to be posted in the regionals. I would have no time to meet folks. I will post if I am in your area and hope too see ya! I am sure we can take care of you!
I am not traveling to Denver for tuning I am there for my "real job" buisness. So if no one shows up, I don't lose anything. I do travel all over the US though. Lately, they have been short trips that don't need to be posted in the regionals. I would have no time to meet folks. I will post if I am in your area and hope too see ya! I am sure we can take care of you!
abctdi said:
Red Rado Tdi
Active member
What sort of tuning do you offer? What would the cost be at a discount? I am concerned due to the change in elevation that I travel through. 5000ft to 12000 ft elevation
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Those are good questions RRT, similar to my concerns. IIRC, the tdi compensates for altitude only to about 5000' and then that feature is maxed out. The thinner air and less oxygen at higher elevations could lead to too much smoke and higher EGTs, IMHO.
pyankura
Vendor
The trip is cancelled! Sucks when you are so important that you can not even leave your job for your job!
Red Rado Tdi
Active member
ABCTDI so what do you think I should consider? I was thinking 205 injectors and the mufflerectomy. I live at 6700' and drive over passes of 10000'-11000'. I noticed my car wasn't increasing speed in 5th at 70 mph climbing up the interstate (not a big deal), but I didn't try to downshift either. I have heard about the "old man intake" not sure what it is/how to do it, and if it would help. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
I'm no expert at all, but I thought there is a tuner in Denver that is...
pyankura
Vendor
I would recommend asking Kerma! He has all you need and can let you "rent" the Q-loader to do a custom tune. You can keep tuning until it is right. It will be much easier with vag-com to log but maybe someone in your area has it. I would also say VWMIKEL but I don't think he offers the "rentable" loader like Kerma. This is what I would do! Or you can rent my CMD slave with a 100% refundable deposit of 2500 bux! I wouldn't even go this way.... You have great options! I would also recommend an egt guage to keep things under right foot control!
Red Rado Tdi said:
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
Actually, I do currently for EDC15 cars (ALH's).pyankura said:
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
So now that we have a couple tuners on the line...what is your experience with high altitude tuning? I may be wrong, but it would seem that a canned tune with most drivers in mind, that is not much above sea level, present issues for those of us at 5k and higher all the time. Your thoughts?
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
Obviously performance is going to be comparatively lacking at high altitude. I can definitely go through and run some numbers to ensure that the atmospheric pressure governs the maximum charge pressure keeping the pressue ratio and turbo shaft speed in check.abctdi said:
aNUT
Vendor , w/Business number
There are a few things that have to be kept in mind for cars driven at high altitude. Safety for your turbo primarily.
There is an altitude correction map built into the stock ECU, and kept in place by all tuners I know of. This correction map reduces boost as ambient pressure drops. This map however, is not ideal however. I'll discuss some of its shortcomings as well as some general turbo properties below.
General turbo properties first:
As we all know, turbos are nothing more than double sided pinwheels. We will mostly focus on the compressor (fresh air side) for this discussion. The faster the compressor spins, the more air is delivered. Since we're delivering more air volume than the engine can flow through it, the pressure rises, and we get boost. The long and the short of it is that more compressor speed results in more boost.
The compressor has mechanical limitations. One limitation is that it can only spin so fast before it stretches out (or flies apart). This is compressor overspeed. This is bad.
Another limitation is harder to grasp. This concept is called the surge limit. We normally talk about turbo performance in terms of boost, but this isn't quite correct. Turbos don't see boost, they see 'pressure ratio' and it's important to understand the difference when we're talking about altitude. In a single turbo system like our cars, (not compound turbos on tractor pullers) Boost pressure is gauge pressure (over ambient) in the manifold. Pressure ratio is boost pressure + ambient pressure divided by ambient pressure.
As an example, take a stock TDI running at sea level. For simplicity sake, we'll say that stock boost pressure is 1000mBar and that ambient pressure is also 1000mBar...mostly true...I can expound on the mostly, but it muddles the point of this post. This means that for our example, this car is running a pressure ratio of 2.
Back to the surge limit: Boost pressure is only half of the story. We're running at varying engine speed, so in addition to pressure ratio, we also have to worry about mass flow...the amount of air that's going through our pinwheel. Every turbo has flow limits as well. When we request too much pressure ratio for too little flow, we run into surge. This is when there is so much boost pressure that it can stop the compressor or cause it to spin backwards. This is far more destructive than overspeed. When the rotating assembly of the turbo goes from 150K RPM to 0 or negative (backwards) it occurs in milliseconds. This tremendous angular acceleration is what snaps turbo shafts. Your car (stock, or tuned) is coded to prevent surge. This is why TDIs are pretty dead below 1800RPM, then suddenly awaken to produce peak torque. The ECU is limiting N75 duty cycle to reduce boost to keep the compressor off its surge limit.
With that out of the way, let's talk specifically about our cars.
Remember our example? Okay great...let's drive that car from Texas to Colorado...more fun here Here on the Front Range, our ambient pressure is about 800mBar most days. With the altitude correction map in place, the ECU is going to reduce manifold absolute pressure (MAP) by about 200mBar to prevent compressor overspeed. Our MAP for a stock car here is going to run 1800mBar at full load instead of 2000mBar. This is going to result in a 9% drop in air flow, and about the same drop in power. This is still better than an naturally aspirated car, which would see a 20% drop. Great! we don't run into compressor overspeed issues.
Let's talk about what the turbo sees now. Remember at sea level we were running a pressure ratio of 2. If we do some quick math, we see that at altitude we're running a pressure ratio of 2.25. PR = 800+1000 / 800 = 2.25. This is still safe, but the turbo is working harder, even after the correction.
For comparison; most tuners tune the stock turbo to 18psi at full load. At sea level this is a pressure ratio of 2.22. At 800mBar (using the stock altitude correction) 18psi equates to a PR of 2.53. Still safe, but the turbo is working harder still.
...but remember I said the correction map was imperfect...
This drop in pressure is made across the board however...The stock tuning is coded to keep the turbo out of surge and overspeed at sea level. If the pressure drop due to altitude is taking place across the engine speed range, it won't keep the turbo safe from surge at low engine speed because mass flow has dropped significantly and pressure ratio is only reduced somewhat. This makes it easier to cross the surge limit. It's not all theoretical either...I replace literally 10 times as many turbos here than I did in Austin.
Another limitation is that altitude correction ONLY occurs at start up. When I go up to the mountains to ski (or ride my bike in the summer) I have to go over Loveland pass...some 11000'. Ambient pressure there is about 650mBar. Back to our chipped example running 18psi, starting at my house (800mBar ambient) and driving up at the pass flooring it...we're seeing a PR of 3.1...not safe. The turbo will see the same thing as running 31psi boost at sea level.
At this point, I do not know of anyone adapting (or completely reconfiguring) the altitude correction map for extreme altitude changes. What needs to be taken away from this is that:
Don't request high load at low engine speeds at higher altitudes.
Don't request full load when you've gone up in altitude significantly.
There is an altitude correction map built into the stock ECU, and kept in place by all tuners I know of. This correction map reduces boost as ambient pressure drops. This map however, is not ideal however. I'll discuss some of its shortcomings as well as some general turbo properties below.
General turbo properties first:
As we all know, turbos are nothing more than double sided pinwheels. We will mostly focus on the compressor (fresh air side) for this discussion. The faster the compressor spins, the more air is delivered. Since we're delivering more air volume than the engine can flow through it, the pressure rises, and we get boost. The long and the short of it is that more compressor speed results in more boost.
The compressor has mechanical limitations. One limitation is that it can only spin so fast before it stretches out (or flies apart). This is compressor overspeed. This is bad.
Another limitation is harder to grasp. This concept is called the surge limit. We normally talk about turbo performance in terms of boost, but this isn't quite correct. Turbos don't see boost, they see 'pressure ratio' and it's important to understand the difference when we're talking about altitude. In a single turbo system like our cars, (not compound turbos on tractor pullers) Boost pressure is gauge pressure (over ambient) in the manifold. Pressure ratio is boost pressure + ambient pressure divided by ambient pressure.
As an example, take a stock TDI running at sea level. For simplicity sake, we'll say that stock boost pressure is 1000mBar and that ambient pressure is also 1000mBar...mostly true...I can expound on the mostly, but it muddles the point of this post. This means that for our example, this car is running a pressure ratio of 2.
Back to the surge limit: Boost pressure is only half of the story. We're running at varying engine speed, so in addition to pressure ratio, we also have to worry about mass flow...the amount of air that's going through our pinwheel. Every turbo has flow limits as well. When we request too much pressure ratio for too little flow, we run into surge. This is when there is so much boost pressure that it can stop the compressor or cause it to spin backwards. This is far more destructive than overspeed. When the rotating assembly of the turbo goes from 150K RPM to 0 or negative (backwards) it occurs in milliseconds. This tremendous angular acceleration is what snaps turbo shafts. Your car (stock, or tuned) is coded to prevent surge. This is why TDIs are pretty dead below 1800RPM, then suddenly awaken to produce peak torque. The ECU is limiting N75 duty cycle to reduce boost to keep the compressor off its surge limit.
With that out of the way, let's talk specifically about our cars.
Remember our example? Okay great...let's drive that car from Texas to Colorado...more fun here
Here on the Front Range, our ambient pressure is about 800mBar most days. With the altitude correction map in place, the ECU is going to reduce manifold absolute pressure (MAP) by about 200mBar to prevent compressor overspeed. Our MAP for a stock car here is going to run 1800mBar at full load instead of 2000mBar. This is going to result in a 9% drop in air flow, and about the same drop in power. This is still better than an naturally aspirated car, which would see a 20% drop. Great! we don't run into compressor overspeed issues. Let's talk about what the turbo sees now. Remember at sea level we were running a pressure ratio of 2. If we do some quick math, we see that at altitude we're running a pressure ratio of 2.25. PR = 800+1000 / 800 = 2.25. This is still safe, but the turbo is working harder, even after the correction.
For comparison; most tuners tune the stock turbo to 18psi at full load. At sea level this is a pressure ratio of 2.22. At 800mBar (using the stock altitude correction) 18psi equates to a PR of 2.53. Still safe, but the turbo is working harder still.
...but remember I said the correction map was imperfect...
This drop in pressure is made across the board however...The stock tuning is coded to keep the turbo out of surge and overspeed at sea level. If the pressure drop due to altitude is taking place across the engine speed range, it won't keep the turbo safe from surge at low engine speed because mass flow has dropped significantly and pressure ratio is only reduced somewhat. This makes it easier to cross the surge limit. It's not all theoretical either...I replace literally 10 times as many turbos here than I did in Austin.
Another limitation is that altitude correction ONLY occurs at start up. When I go up to the mountains to ski (or ride my bike in the summer) I have to go over Loveland pass...some 11000'. Ambient pressure there is about 650mBar. Back to our chipped example running 18psi, starting at my house (800mBar ambient) and driving up at the pass flooring it...we're seeing a PR of 3.1...not safe. The turbo will see the same thing as running 31psi boost at sea level.
At this point, I do not know of anyone adapting (or completely reconfiguring) the altitude correction map for extreme altitude changes. What needs to be taken away from this is that:
Don't request high load at low engine speeds at higher altitudes.
Don't request full load when you've gone up in altitude significantly.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Thanks for that info aNUT.
That was what I was suspicious of when someone says, just overnight your ecu to a tuner experienced mostly near sea level, or just get a tune loader with a prepackaged tune...
So I assume that a high altitude tuner can provide more power (maybe not as much more) and keep our hardware safe? And that it requires a 'live' tuning session in the car under those conditions? Please advise further.
That was what I was suspicious of when someone says, just overnight your ecu to a tuner experienced mostly near sea level, or just get a tune loader with a prepackaged tune...
So I assume that a high altitude tuner can provide more power (maybe not as much more) and keep our hardware safe? And that it requires a 'live' tuning session in the car under those conditions? Please advise further.
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
The correct pressure ratio can be calculated based on altitude. So, it is really a mathmatical question, rather than one that requires a lot of live info to tune.abctdi said:
manual_tranny
Smyth Performance- Intern
would it be possible to re-program the ECU to adjust to the altitudes at all times? Or perhaps make a dummy sensor that was manually controlled by rheostat that could sit next to an altimeter? Just curious about on-the-fly control...
vwmikel
Vendor , w/Business number
On start-up the ECU compares the atmospheric pressure sensor and that of the MAP sensor to be sure that they correlate. So, on-the-fly adjustment might be a bit tricky without calling that plausibility into question.manual_tranny said:
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
More good input, thanks.
Red Rado Tdi
Active member
A NUT you seem like your the man, you know your stuff and you are also very close to me (golden to steamboat 130ish miles, sweet!) so I would like to get some pointers and probably some work done from you in the future.
The altitude factored in greatly when i was replacing my blown stock turbo two weeks after I bought my TDI. Anuthee, Where do you ski? I haven't missed a week this year! I have so many neglected home/auto projects right now, it's sickening. The ski season doesn't last forever, unfortunately.
milehighassassin
Top Post Dawg
Interesting info...aNUT said:There are a few things that have to be kept in mind for cars driven at high altitude. Safety for your turbo primarily.
There is an altitude correction map built into the stock ECU, and kept in place by all tuners I know of. This correction map reduces boost as ambient pressure drops. This map however, is not ideal however. I'll discuss some of its shortcomings as well as some general turbo properties below.
General turbo properties first:
As we all know, turbos are nothing more than double sided pinwheels. We will mostly focus on the compressor (fresh air side) for this discussion. The faster the compressor spins, the more air is delivered. Since we're delivering more air volume than the engine can flow through it, the pressure rises, and we get boost. The long and the short of it is that more compressor speed results in more boost.
The compressor has mechanical limitations. One limitation is that it can only spin so fast before it stretches out (or flies apart). This is compressor overspeed. This is bad.
Another limitation is harder to grasp. This concept is called the surge limit. We normally talk about turbo performance in terms of boost, but this isn't quite correct. Turbos don't see boost, they see 'pressure ratio' and it's important to understand the difference when we're talking about altitude. In a single turbo system like our cars, (not compound turbos on tractor pullers) Boost pressure is gauge pressure (over ambient) in the manifold. Pressure ratio is boost pressure + ambient pressure divided by ambient pressure.
As an example, take a stock TDI running at sea level. For simplicity sake, we'll say that stock boost pressure is 1000mBar and that ambient pressure is also 1000mBar...mostly true...I can expound on the mostly, but it muddles the point of this post. This means that for our example, this car is running a pressure ratio of 2.
Back to the surge limit: Boost pressure is only half of the story. We're running at varying engine speed, so in addition to pressure ratio, we also have to worry about mass flow...the amount of air that's going through our pinwheel. Every turbo has flow limits as well. When we request too much pressure ratio for too little flow, we run into surge. This is when there is so much boost pressure that it can stop the compressor or cause it to spin backwards. This is far more destructive than overspeed. When the rotating assembly of the turbo goes from 150K RPM to 0 or negative (backwards) it occurs in milliseconds. This tremendous angular acceleration is what snaps turbo shafts. Your car (stock, or tuned) is coded to prevent surge. This is why TDIs are pretty dead below 1800RPM, then suddenly awaken to produce peak torque. The ECU is limiting N75 duty cycle to reduce boost to keep the compressor off its surge limit.
With that out of the way, let's talk specifically about our cars.
Remember our example? Okay great...let's drive that car from Texas to Colorado...more fun here
Let's talk about what the turbo sees now. Remember at sea level we were running a pressure ratio of 2. If we do some quick math, we see that at altitude we're running a pressure ratio of 2.25. PR = 800+1000 / 800 = 2.25. This is still safe, but the turbo is working harder, even after the correction.
For comparison; most tuners tune the stock turbo to 18psi at full load. At sea level this is a pressure ratio of 2.22. At 800mBar (using the stock altitude correction) 18psi equates to a PR of 2.53. Still safe, but the turbo is working harder still.
...but remember I said the correction map was imperfect...
This drop in pressure is made across the board however...The stock tuning is coded to keep the turbo out of surge and overspeed at sea level. If the pressure drop due to altitude is taking place across the engine speed range, it won't keep the turbo safe from surge at low engine speed because mass flow has dropped significantly and pressure ratio is only reduced somewhat. This makes it easier to cross the surge limit. It's not all theoretical either...I replace literally 10 times as many turbos here than I did in Austin.
Another limitation is that altitude correction ONLY occurs at start up. When I go up to the mountains to ski (or ride my bike in the summer) I have to go over Loveland pass...some 11000'. Ambient pressure there is about 650mBar. Back to our chipped example running 18psi, starting at my house (800mBar ambient) and driving up at the pass flooring it...we're seeing a PR of 3.1...not safe. The turbo will see the same thing as running 31psi boost at sea level.
At this point, I do not know of anyone adapting (or completely reconfiguring) the altitude correction map for extreme altitude changes. What needs to be taken away from this is that:
Don't request high load at low engine speeds at higher altitudes.
Don't request full load when you've gone up in altitude significantly.
I drive from Fort Collins to Vail every weekend and back. Do you think stopping and restarting the vehicle would be good for the ECU? Many times I stop at Georgetown. While it is not the 11,000 feet Eisenhower is it is much better than the 4900 feet of Fort Collins.
abctdi
Top Post Dawg
Can you expand on this?DrFaustus said: