//// how will my car handle compared to stock ? ///

Hi all,

I read the handling sticky and learned a great deal of information from it.

Unfortunately however I have no place to really test my car and I'm usually busy working and or... running the roads...

Here are the things I've done Above and Beyond stock as far as suspension ...

Switched to Avis rims and I run 205 70 R15 ecopia tires

Replaced front a arm with upgraded arm having TT bushings in it.

Koni special active shocks / struts all around

Front Springs replaced with lesjofors (sp?) VR6 Springs

I do have a white line adjustable rear sway bar coming but have not installed yet...

One thing that I found particularly interesting in the handling thread was that it recommended actually stiffening the front up and not lowering the car because of front suspension geometry .... to that end I actually raised the car an inch or more with a VR6 Springs and simultaneously increase the front spring rate ...

The car feels much better in its current form than it did stock although admittedly I do not push the car hard in turns Etc...

The other day I had to haul some cinder blocks from Lowe's and ironically to me the car actually felt better with more weight in the rear to balance things out ... with that and not necessarily wanting to run around with a lot of unnecessary dead weight in the car I also plan but have not done a battery relocate to the rear of the car .... that should serve a dual role because it would effectively increase the front spring rate and balance out the car a little better..

I know running 15 inch tires with high side walls is not conducive to razor-sharp handling but interestingly enough the same handling thread said something about the stock type front suspension may actually perform better with high profile tires because they Bend and grip the road better than low profiles with stiff sidewalls..

So anyways how do you think my car with handle the way it is and possibly after I add the rear sway bar and Battery relocate?

I think one person here made a suggestion in another thread I should not add a rear sway bar I can't remember their name but it was a person with the green Print...

Anyways thanks in advance for any and all help on this

Andrew

Andy,

It was me on the RSB. Mind you I have a Golf, and you have an extra
100#s or so more behind the rear axle than I do. I have the Special Reds, adjustable.
I dialed up my rear shocks 25% and went with Golf towing springs.
Plenty stiff enough IMO. The problem as I see it with an rsb is that it
lessens the amount of torsion flex or compliance, ie on a hard corner
you could lift the inside wheel, whereas with stock you have a better chance
of keeping both wheels on the pavement.
Think about your tires, that additional sidewall is keeping the rubber on
the road.

On the front end I've got a skid plate that firms up the lower front,
and a top strut tie bar that deals with the top. Think chassis flex.
I have a rear top bar that goes between the upper rear seat belt mounts.
Stiffening the box again. All my bushings are OEM rubber, firming them up "feels" like you're improving things,
but IMO you're not dealing withthe source of the problem, body movement.

I've gone to 16" wheels and over width of 215. Couple that with wheel spacers that not only give me extra inner clearance, but also
widen the stance. My understanding is the MkIV chassis rears are narrower than the front, put an extra 10mm a side and now the tracks
are equal. Made a difference for me.

Congrats on actually reading the thread, some of the info is counterintuitive.
The "Moose Avoidance" test is a real eye opener. So called "sport" suspensions can actually compromise handling at the edge. The Mercedes
rolled! The van with 17" wheels spun out, whereas the 16"s did not.

Little things add up incrementally. Those cinder blocks made a difference
for you, loading up the rear wheels gave you better grip. I commonly run
4# less in the back tires.


My wooden $.05

Rrusse11 said:

Andy,

It was me on the RSB. Mind you I have a Golf, and you have an extra
100#s or so more behind the rear axle than I do. I have the Special Reds, adjustable.
I dialed up my rear shocks 25% and went with Golf towing springs.
Plenty stiff enough IMO. The problem as I see it with an rsb is that it
lessens the amount of torsion flex or compliance, ie on a hard corner
you could lift the inside wheel, whereas with stock you have a better chance
of keeping both wheels on the pavement.
Think about your tires, that additional sidewall is keeping the rubber on
the road.

On the front end I've got a skid plate that firms up the lower front,
and a top strut tie bar that deals with the top. Think chassis flex.
I have a rear top bar that goes between the upper rear seat belt mounts.
Stiffening the box again. All my bushings are OEM rubber, firming them up "feels" like you're improving things,
but IMO you're not dealing withthe source of the problem, body movement.

I've gone to 16" wheels and over width of 215. Couple that with wheel spacers that not only give me extra inner clearance, but also
widen the stance. My understanding is the MkIV chassis rears are narrower than the front, put an extra 10mm a side and now the tracks
are equal. Made a difference for me.

Congrats on actually reading the thread, some of the info is counterintuitive.
The "Moose Avoidance" test is a real eye opener. So called "sport" suspensions can actually compromise handling at the edge. The Mercedes
rolled! The van with 17" wheels spun out, whereas the 16"s did not.

Little things add up incrementally. Those cinder blocks made a difference
for you, loading up the rear wheels gave you better grip. I commonly run
4# less in the back tires.


My wooden $.05

Click to expand...

HI,

Thanks for the input again .... I was wondering if it was you when viewed on my computer because the print for whatever reason on my computer is not green but on my phone it is....

Anyways sorry for the digression ...

1) I wonder if there is a way to equate how stiff the rear of your car is ( koni reds adjusted up combined with towing golf springs along with a with a lighter weight in the rear ) VS my wagon factory rear springs (with 330K miles but I never haul heavy .... I intentionally did not change them out because I did not want fresh springs to potentially raise the rear up even more) and heavier rear weight due to the overhang behind the rear axle ....

Maybe , if it is relatively "softer" than your rear the sway Rear sway bar won't necessarily make things too stiff in the rear ? (in my reading on the forum, it seems almost universal that people like to stick on a big rear bar .... I went with whiteline because it is adjustable and "only" 24 MM...

In theory, I could put in poly bushings and endlinks up front to add more "effective" rate if the rear throws things off too much (only thing about poly I may not like is squeaks).

2) I though about spacers for the rear of the car ... I forget where I saw them but there is a company that sells spacers that space out the entire stub axle rather than a spacer behind the wheels so no extra load is placed on the wheel bearings ....

I suppose the front could be done as well but the only ones I know for that are wheel spacers which would add a little more stress to the bearings possibly....

I know you said you could feel the difference but in testing would 10 or 20 or so MM per side make a big difference in road holding?

are longer wheel stud bolts needed or factory OK?

3) I know a sway bar ties wheels together but I have a hard time wrapping my head around why a rear bar would tend to cause the inner rear wheel to raise up in a turn ... I would have thought the added roll stiffness on the outside rear wheel would tend to push the inner rear wheel to the ground (of course rear wheel lift would be much less of an issue if the front end was stiffer spring wise (and perhaps if the rear were a little lower (which is why I did not replace my rear springs for fear the new ones would lift up the rear more).

4) I like the idea of tower braces etc to stiffen up the front but I have heard that stiffening was more of a mark III issue ? How much better percentage wise do you think the tower brace and skid plate makes on a MK IV car?

Thanks for your input....

Andrew

You'll get much better handling with something like a 215/55r16 tire.

turbobrick240 said:

You'll get much better handling with something like a 215/55r16 tire.

Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. My combo wheel/tire is ~35#, the Generals are light
tires with soft soft side walls. If there's one thing that stands out in the
Handling thread it's that tires and unsprung weight are one of the biggest
factors for improvement.


Andy,

An RSB stiffens the torsion bar rear suspension. Stiffening it means
less flex. Now with soft springs and a stiffer rear axle, you may end up
with a similar effect to harder springs and a soft bar, but springs are
cheaper. I have 2 sets, for the summer and towing the teardrop camper,
I instal Wagon towing springs, it does lift the rear without a load, and
makes the a$$ end livelier. Less understeer, more tendency to slide,
also in part due to a shift in the lateral weight bias, lifting and shifting
the center of gravity. But for winter ice and snow I keep it level.

Note I don't track the car, and I rarely push to the limit of squealing my
tires, lol, I try and keep the rubber on the wheel, not on the road.
You want to make a BIG difference? Install an LSD, that'll pull you
through corners.

It all comes down to what makes you happy and how you drive.
Tailoring the suspension to your driving style and needs takes some
time and experimentation. Chassis stiffening IMO is one of the best
bangs for the buck. I spent mebbe $150 on the front and rear bars.
Driving response was immediately improved, and that for me is "handling".