Any leaking GSW pano roofs this winter?

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
I'm slightly surprised to not read of any pano roof leaks this winter. Mine did, but only during a 100-year storm of unprecedented rate of rainfall. I'm really wondering if there were leaks that did occur this winter but were not detected because the evidence was somewhat hidden.

In my case, a 1/3 of the spare tire well filled with water after one brief but severe rain event but there was no evidence of water on the cargo floor or side panels (and any sloshing was indistinguishable from fuel sloshing). I knew to check the headliner for water staining and there was plenty, but absolutely no water below it or down either side. All the water had migrated down the interior of the C-pillars and drained to the spare well via the interior of the side panels.

I'm wondering if this might have happened to anyone else recently and went unnoticed if the spare well or side panel access door wasn't accessed during that time. A stained headliner would be the clue.

Causes for the '15 GSW seem to be:
  1. An improper weld at one spot on the sunroof frame that prevents proper sealing against the roof flange at that point.
  2. Faulty or improperly designed anti-rodent intrusion valves at the exits of the 4 roof drain lines.
For later hatchbacks, cause seems to be:
  1. Cracks in the sunroof frame appear to be the culprit.
There have been several reports here and on the Vortex of past leaks, both at the front and rear of the pano roof as well as incorrect dealer diagnoses and multiple repair attempts. To avoid the latter, I intend to remove all trim/soft parts and diagnose the actual cause before repairing and then either repair myself if no major parts (like sunroof frame) are required or, if required, have the dealer replace only that item(s).

Any recent experiences or new insights into causes of your particular leak?
 

AGOODHI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2011
Location
NorCal
TDI
MKVII GSW, MKVI Golf
i pulled my subwoofer out recently, but didn't notice water in well. would it be obvious after removing subwoofer? i bet the smell would be a dead give away too.

sounds like a pain in the rear end to fix :eek:
 

Mike in Anchorage

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Anchorage, AK
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2016 Touareg Lux, 2015 Golf Sportwagen SE, new 4 Sept 2017;2009 VW Jetta TDI Sportwagen (Ruby) sold to VW on 22 SEP 2017
I go through frequent freeze / thaw cycles with various precip on the roof and have not had any problems. I do make it a habit to keep the roof cracked open when parked in the garage to help dry out the interior.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
i pulled my subwoofer out recently, but didn't notice water in well. would it be obvious after removing subwoofer? i bet the smell would be a dead give away too.

sounds like a pain in the rear end to fix :eek:
Residual headliner stains are the key. Check front and rear with a flashlight. No need to check anywhere else if no stains present. My stop-sale GSW had existing stains from its 2-year stay on a Baltimore dealer's lot, but the leaks didn't recur during its first SoCal winter until one short, enormous deluge hit.
 

JerseyMike

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Location
NJ
TDI
2013 Mk6 Golf TDI, 2013-2017
Is the sunroof leak issue just with the GSW or does the hatchback have it too? A couple cars I'm looking are hatchbacks with sunroof.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
Is the sunroof leak issue just with the GSW or does the hatchback have it too? A couple cars I'm looking are hatchbacks with sunroof.
Hatchback does, too, but the cause is slightly different: cracking of the sunroof frame rather than an improper weld on the frame. Replacement of the frame is the solution and there is a TSB on it. You can find more info on either the Vortex or GolfMk7 sites (I forget which one I checked.)
 

Nutty 5.0

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Location
SE PA
TDI
15 GSW SEL TDI 6MT
Still knocking on wood, but diligent about using some Gummi Pflege Stift on the seals regularly. My car usually is outside year round too.
 

JerseyMike

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Location
NJ
TDI
2013 Mk6 Golf TDI, 2013-2017
Yea, my car lives outside exclusively. I'm leaning towards going with a S model TDI to avoid sunroof issues after reading so much about them. I never liked the sunroof on my Mk6 Golf but I like the panoramic on my Mini (they have no chronic issues with leaking). The bigger sunroof on the Mk7 Golf is nice but I don't need it if it means possibly dealing with leaks. My first generation Honda Fit leaked like a mofo and water in your car is not fun.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
Yea, my car lives outside exclusively. I'm leaning towards going with a S model TDI to avoid sunroof issues after reading so much about them. I never liked the sunroof on my Mk6 Golf but I like the panoramic on my Mini (they have no chronic issues with leaking). The bigger sunroof on the Mk7 Golf is nice but I don't need it if it means possibly dealing with leaks. My first generation Honda Fit leaked like a mofo and water in your car is not fun.
An even bigger liability than leakage, in my opinion, is the ridiculous power shade in the GSW. Its non-insulated, paper-thin and perforated which allows super heating of the interior on a sunny day with that huge pano. Not sure if the hatchbacks use that too.

A great aftermarket item would be an insulated, non-perforated replacement if it could be made to fit and work with the power roller. When I remove the headliner to fix the leak, maybe I can get an idea of how feasible this would be.
 
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JerseyMike

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Location
NJ
TDI
2013 Mk6 Golf TDI, 2013-2017
My Mini has a perforated shade and it works well to block the sun. You could also do an aftermarket tint on the sunroof to block more.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
My Mini has a perforated shade and it works well to block the sun. You could also do an aftermarket tint on the sunroof to block more.
I wish the GSW shade worked as well as the Mini.

The problem with tinting the sunroof is that it makes it more vulnerable to thermal shock shattering, which is becoming more of a thing with large area glass roofs these days.
 

JerseyMike

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Location
NJ
TDI
2013 Mk6 Golf TDI, 2013-2017
You mean the tinting film cracks off or the actual sunroof glass cracks?
 

Discovery

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Location
Montréal
TDI
Mk7 SportWagen
You guys are stressing me out! I found a stain on the headliner in the trunk but I was thinking that it was my dirty dog who made that stain.

Now I'm afraid my Pano is either leaking or had previously leaked with the previous owner.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
You guys are stressing me out! I found a stain on the headliner in the trunk but I was thinking that it was my dirty dog who made that stain.
Maybe he's mastered peeing while on his back!

To check further, you can open the tool kit door panel and look in/reach in towards backside of the left rear wheel well where you will find a thick black sponge rubber sound blocker/damper. If water migrated down this side from the roof in the recent past, that sponge rubber will be wet and have absorbed water. You might also find water at the bottom of that compartment below the tool kit shelf.
 
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Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2015 Sportwagen; Golf GLS 2002 (swap from 2L gas); 2016 A3 e-tron
I'm slightly surprised to not read of any pano roof leaks this winter. Mine did, but only during a 100-year storm of unprecedented rate of rainfall.
Only partially joking, but I'm guessing a "100-year-storm of unprecedented rainfall" in Santa Barbara is roughly equivalent to "random Tuesday in November" in PNW (Vancouver Island) where I live. :)

But yeah - two winters here, with a few 200mm of rain in a day; plus numerous wet snow followed by rain followed by freezing... no leaks.
(And yes - knocking on wood because I was a little concerned.)
 

Victor Huge

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Location
Alberta
TDI
Mk7 Golf TDI
Had a sunroof leak on our 2016 GSW and it has to do with the drain hoses being pinched in the rear. Not sure why you guys mention welds though... As far as i can tell they are still using those crappy hoses that are glued to a plastic cup that joins into the sunroof drain, so if it's not pinched, it's likely that glue joint...
 

Discovery

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Location
Montréal
TDI
Mk7 SportWagen
Maybe he's mastered peeing while on his back!

To check further, you can open the tool kit door panel and look in/reach in towards backside of the left rear wheel well where you will find a thick black sponge rubber sound blocker/damper. If water migrated down this side from the roof in the recent past, that sponge rubber will be wet and have absorbed water. You might also find water at the bottom of that compartment below the tool kit shelf.
He's big enough to rub against the headliner


It's raining today, I'll check that out
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
To make you feel better about once a week i see leaks in the pano and non pano roofs for the 4Mo and Alltrack. There are about 2-3 different failure points for leaks.

Rubber boots for the loom at the top of the hatch.
broken/poor welds at the rear corners of the hatch.
drains at the front or rear of the sunroof drip tray.

buying a solid roof won't escape you from the first two failures.
 

mxtdiguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
Mexico
TDI
'16 sportwagen TDI sel 6mt
Im 99.99% sure I fixed my leaking pano roof !

Subject is a 2016 GSW SEL TDI built in Oct 2015

I've read so many posts and threads about leaking sunroofs and how they were "repaired" by the dealer then leaked again....cracked frames, bad welds etc etc .It gave me a headache and I dreaded having to deal with the issue.

I thought for sure I would eventually seal my entire pano roof with opaque film and be done with it. Still get some light this way, cut down heat gain, but no more water leaks !!

Then this morning I started my own investigation on what's going on..

Thanks to "Extreme VW" for giving me the confidence to start tearing into my car

I already knew that my front driver side drain was plugged, somewhere, somehow because I could see that water was not going down that hole at all. The front passenger side did flow slowly, but since I was getting water into the headliner on both sides at the rear, I knew those drains weren't working either.

I had no idea where any of the drains terminated when I started...

First step was to remove the upper rear hard plastic panel which is held in place with clips. then I removed both rear pillar plastic pieces as well. I took care and used a long flat screwdriver to pry the clips, fortunately I didn't break anything removing these three panels.

Now I could lower the headliner enough to get access to both rear hose connections to the sunroof.

I pulled off the passenger side hose with nipple and blew into it....nothing. completely blocked somewhere.
Did the same for the driver side and was able to move a little air through, but it was restricted somewhat.

Inspection of both hoses/nipples at the sunroof end showed that there was some dirt buildup, but both hoses were securely bonded to their rubber nipples, no leaks between the hoses ad nipples themselves.

Next I took some rigid plastic line and shoved it down each hose. The passenger side eventually hit a blockage but I pushed through it and heard water dripping under the car.
Now I know where the hose terminates, time for an inspection.
The rear passenger hose terminates behind the wheel, but is covered by a plastic panel which is easy to remove.

Finally I am at where the problem is.

Some engineer in VW decided to install small plastic disks inside the rubber nipples for whatever reason. The little orange plastic "flap" had bonded itself in place pretty good. Good enough to completely stop water flow.

I remove this little flap ( cursing at it all the time )

Driver side rear nipple can be seen under the car, no plastic panel blocking it. Again I remove the orange disk "flap" at the end of the rubber nipple.

I clean both nipples at the sunroof end and reattach them to the sunroof, time for a test !

I placed a garden hose in the sunroof water channel and proceed to run water into it, doing each side.

Water is flowing out of each hose onto the floor under the car !.

While to water is flowing I look inside under the headliner to look for any leaks....not a single drop anywhere !

Confident I have solved the rear drain issues, I move to the front.

Again I have no idea where these hoses terminate. When I push my rigid line through the front driver side I hit a brick wall, no idea what.
The front passenger side goes through, but I can't locate my line anywhere.
After removing the inner fender well liner and finding nothing, I took a look in the cavity in front of the windshield and found my line, but couldn't see where it exactly exited the body.

By moving a plastic cover held in place by two pins I finally found the exit for the front passenger side hose.
And of course this nipple also has a stupid hard plastic flap blocking the majority of water flow. Out with the flap !

Front driver side turned out to be the most challenging.
The nipple can be seen but it is behind the wiper mechanism and can't be reached by hand. I tried long needle nose pliers, but could never dislodge the plastic flap.

Now that I knew that the brick wall I was hitting with my rigid line was the flapper, I jammed the line down has hard as I could over and over. Eventually it broke through, but the flap is still in there I think.

Time to test the front drains with the water hose. Happily both front drains are also now flowing FREELY ! And no water is anywhere on the headliner

Water always flow downhill and takes the path of least resistance.

I'm confident now that my drains are flowing at a high rate, I won't have any more leaks.

Sorry I didn't include photos, I do have have some as well as videos, but I'm not the most savy when it comes to including them in messages.

Hope this helps !
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
Great forensic investigation!

I believe the orange flaps are supposed to be critter anti-intrusion valves. You'd think that with VW's sordid history of sunroof drain problems, they wouldn't add one more potential failure point to the system.

I hope that is the end of the story for you and that mine turns out to be the same problem.
 

mxtdiguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
Mexico
TDI
'16 sportwagen TDI sel 6mt
Great forensic investigation!
I believe the orange flaps are supposed to be critter anti-intrusion valves. You'd think that with VW's sordid history of sunroof drain problems, they wouldn't add one more potential failure point to the system.
I hope that is the end of the story for you and that mine turns out to be the same problem.
I cannot stretch my imagination to justify the orange flaps at the drain nipples. The only rodent that might crawl up there would be an ant, and they could find millions of other entry points anyway.

Take a look at the drain on the driver side rear by the muffler, it's the only one that can be seen without disassembly.

If they indented the flap to open simply with the pressure of water inside the tube, they are grossly mistaken. The flap causes dirt to build up, which then dries and eventually causes a complete blockage.
Crazy design flaw
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
My guess it's there to prevent road grime from clogging the hose, i guess it worked no road grime got up.

MXTDIGuy Any chance you could snag some pics?
 

mxtdiguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Location
Mexico
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'16 sportwagen TDI sel 6mt
My guess it's there to prevent road grime from clogging the hose, i guess it worked no road grime got up.

MXTDIGuy Any chance you could snag some pics?
The only drain nipple exposed to the elements is the rear driver side and even if that were to get some dirt from the outside, that dirt would be washed out with every car wash or rain, so I don't see that being a reason for the flap

To see a drain nipple with it's orange flap, take a look under the car at the rear driver side.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I'll have to take a peak see. No issues at the moment but knock on wood.
 

nikdfish

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Location
Person county NC
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2015 Golf TDI Sportwagon SEL
For me, they had to grind a weld down that was interfering with getting a good seal on the gasket. The track itself may also have been replaced, I seem to recall it got removed/replaced at some point. Sorry no details on part numbers or TSB's beyond having seen "per Tech memo" included on the work description.

Chris - sorry not having replied to the PM's, I haven't been on this site much for quite a while.
 
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Discovery

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2018
Location
Montréal
TDI
Mk7 SportWagen
Well it happened, puddle on the carpet yesterday morning.


Good thing is, car was still under full warranty until 80k. I just hit 78k eheh.

Now I'm driving this rental (paid by VW) I miss my wagon dearly.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
I hope you will follow up on what the repair turns out to be. There are several possible sources of the leaks and I'm always curious as to which one or ones it is.
 
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