Frozen Tie rod end bolt stuck, Whole tie rod spins with it! (pictures included)

Hello, trying to change my tie rod ends and am having an issue with with a nut.
Check picture > wrench #1 (22mm) is on the stuck nut. As i try to turn it towards the back of the car to loosen it, the whole tie rod spins with it. Not sure if the inner boot will get messed up if i keep going? I noticed this and put a 13 mm wrench on the bar of the tie rod to try and hold while attempting to loosen the nut. Not much room for leverage here, putting all my strength will not move the nut, though I'm not very strong either .
I have penetrating oil (PB blaster and some other brand) and have soaked it in this. Also I used a map gas torch to try to heat it up.
Any one else come across this issue? May have to get some one more strong armed over to help me. Last thing I want is to round the nut from me slipping.

You only need to loosen the jam nut 1/2 turn at most. Then start taking the outer tie rod off. I've never had a problem with the jam nut, they always loosen right up. May need a little more oomph.

Now, the outer tie rod nut is a different story. I've taken a hack saw to them many times because the bolt and ball stud spin freely together.

i just change the inside and outside at the same time after wrestling with one for a while before...

You can consider using a pipe wrench, and then you can get a bar over it

Is it normal for the whole tie rod shaft to move along with the jam nut? Because I can turn it which makes the actual rod unscrew from the tie rod end but the nut stays in the same place. All the videos I've seen the nut moves while the rest stays in place!

you have to heat it. Rust belt cars do that and the nut will rust on the tie rod pretty good usually.

Damn rust belt.. Yeah It doesn't seem map gas will get the nut red hot. Suppose to have a higher temp than propane. Had it on for a good 5 mins, may give it one more go.

Have you taken the outer tie rod end out of the steering knuckle yet? If not I would do that, then that outer end should just unscrew by hand. It looks to me as if you have already loosened that jam nut up a quater turn or so. If you have that's all that's necessary to unscrew the outer end.

If it still won't move put the outer end back in the knuckle and the nut on finger tight and get a bigger wrench. A pipe wrench is a good start.

Tdijarhead said:

Have you taken the outer tie rod end out of the steering knuckle yet? If not I would do that, then that outer end should just unscrew by hand. It looks to me as if you have already loosened that jam nut up a quater turn or so. If you have that's all that's necessary to unscrew the outer end.
If it still won't move put the outer end back in the knuckle and the nut on finger tight and get a bigger wrench. A pipe wrench is a good start.

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I have not taken the outter tie rod out, I did attempt to slightly, however it seems to be quite stuck as well, haha. Haven't gone at it too hard yet so it will likely come free with a couple hits from the side.
I don't think the jam nut has not moved at all. Whats happening is the whole inner tie rod along with the boot is twisting instead. It seems the inner is unscrewing from the outer tie rod!
It's getting dark so i'll have to wait until tomorrow but I'll try turning the whole inner tie rod about 1/2 turn then take the outer tie rid out the knuckle and twisting it out. It probably will work it just doesn't seem proper. All the videos have the jam nut turning loose not the whole inner tie rod hehe. Maybe my inner is bad too which is why is spins as such? I'll have to do the inspection procedure when I get it out of the knuckle! Usually the youtube videos can get me through unfamiliar jobs so thanks for the suggestion thus far.

The rod the jam nut is on is designed to spin/turn. The end you can not see inside the boot is actually a ball in a cup it can and will spin and articulate up and down. A bad inner joint is characterized by push and pull play or catching as it spins/ turns/ moves.

Put a pipe wrench in place of that little wrench you have labeled 2 in your picture and soak up the threads in front of the jam nut and make that nut move. If you have another pipe wrench you coud replace wrench #1 also.

I just replaced my entire front suspension last weekend. I was going to take a picture of what the inner end of the tie rod looks like, but I had one that was bad so it got trashed and the other side was ok but I had to cut the outer tie rod off the knuckle and I was somewhat mad at that point so I trashed that also.

Seems the way you're doing it now. You are just turning the inner tie rod which will turn FOREVER.

First thing you have to do to get it apart is take the nut off the outer tie rod end. Pop it out. Hold the inner rod with a pipe wrench. Back off the counter holding nut. Now unthread the outer tie rod. If the nut on the outer tie rod spins. You can hold up on the outer tie rod with long bar by pushing down on the end of the bar. If you have an impact gun it will take the nut off better than by hand.

Hmm, thanks for the information guys. I'll update how I do tomorrow. Yes frustration is common with these seized bolts all over the car. Had a similar issue with one of the bleeders on the rear calipers but eventually freed it up.

That's why northerners call an oxy-torch a fire wrench.

turbocharged798 said:

That's why northerners call an oxy-torch a fire wrench.

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lol. I don't even bother to do that. When I have nuts rusted on, I go straight for my mini-grinder with a zip cut disk and split the nut. Its a done deal is 30 seconds.

Rembrant said:

lol. I don't even bother to do that. When I have nuts rusted on, I go straight for my mini-grinder with a zip cut disk and split the nut. Its a done deal is 30 seconds.

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Yes that is what I did too. It goes really quickly.

So looks like I did have the jam nut loose. Smacked the inner tie rod up and it twisted right out! Went to the next side and found that my strut needed to be replaced too, the spring disc seemed to have rusted away allowing the coil to pass it and rub against the top of the inner fender. This was actually the main cause of noise even though my inner tie rods were in bad shape too. Ended up having to travel to the next city to rent a coil compressor as there were none in my area.

The struts looked to be OEM. Had the old VW mexico sticker on it... if so would mean the strut assembly has 410,000 km on it! It had a good life. Bought some new quick struts, probably not recommended but meh. I also initially thought the coil had snapped before finding that the spring disc rusted out, so I thought would need new coils too. It was a pain to get the old strut out but I got it done and was in the process of putting everything back together.

While tightening the lower strut bolt/nut something bad and unexpected happened. The knuckle cracked on the left side! I can get a picture tomorrow but basically it has cracked around the nut, the bolt/nut still gets nice and tight though. For some reason I wasn't extremely angry but I now know I have two options:

1: replace the whole knuckle - likely what everyone will recommend.

2. Weld the knuckle back together with some metal. I don't have a welder but can probably get a hold of one. Should be quick and easy

The weird thing is that it wasn't even that tight yet when it cracked. One thing after another it seems!

I didn't even think that was possible!!

Don't think you can weld it, it's cast I'm sure, also if it doesn't have a good tight grip there the shock can slip right through with a decent bump. I found that out the hard way. Managed to get home with a large rock and a wheel nut spanner though lol

Cast iron can be welded. Preheat and use 99 nickel rod.

Yard vehicle, yeah.

Risking others. No.

To remotely make it anywhere probable to be safe will require "V-ing" it down through all the crack, possibly all the way through, and building it back together. ALOT of preheat/helper work to help the puddle from getting shocked, and also to slow the cooling process to discourage stress cracking from accelerated shrinking.

I hate cast iron.

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turbocharged798 said:

That's why northerners call an oxy-torch a fire wrench.

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The oxy-torch or map gas torches are great at open areas that aren't in danger of been torched.
On automotive tight confined spaces the best application to use for loosening rusted bolts/nuts is by using either electromagnetic heat inductor or a good powerful heat gun that can be purchased at any hardware stores. I found that Wagner 3500 heat gun that menards sells is a great tool to have in your tool box to heat things up.

haha yeah, looks like I'll be looking for a new knuckle. Kinda sucks to have it all together and now take it apart again. I circled in the picture where it cracked. I was pretty shocked when it broke as well. Was just like, "really??". Thankfully I have the spare 01 TDI to get me around.

You could probably find one in the junk yard with a few less miles.

odet27 said:

haha yeah, looks like I'll be looking for a new knuckle. Kinda sucks to have it all together and now take it apart again. I circled in the picture where it cracked. I was pretty shocked when it broke as well. Was just like, "really??". Thankfully I have the spare 01 TDI to get me around.

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In all my years of working on these cars I have never seen or heard of this happening!

Well, here is the carnage of mine. Actually, I seen a thread where someone had the exact same break in their knuckle. I did not use the strut spreader tool to reinstall the new strut, maybe a sign that there was something wrong/ over flexed in it. First time replacing a strut so I wasn't even aware you needed a tool.

After working on the other side I can see why you need one! Going to buy a cheap used grinder for probably the same price of the tool and make one my self. There's been a few times where a grinder would have came in handy, about time I got one.

Probably a bad charge. Or some one shoveled in a no-no... I've done it.

Aluminum fan blade got mixed up. Trashed the 1k# charge.



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odet27 said:

The weird thing is that it wasn't even that tight yet when it cracked. One thing after another it seems!

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Oh the joys of keeping an old TDI on the road because everything else is junk.

a 1/4 in drive extention makes a handy spreader tool.
....looks like you'll need a wheel speed sensor too.

maxmoo said:

a 1/4 in drive extention makes a handy spreader tool.
....looks like you'll need a wheel speed sensor too.

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A shop lent me the spreader tool and the knuckle is basically scrap now since I decided it's not worth trying to repair, and yeah the sensor was broken! I got a used knuckle for $50, new bearing put in for another $50 !

odet27 said:

A shop lent me the spreader tool and the knuckle is basically scrap now since I decided it's not worth trying to repair, and yeah the sensor was broken! I got a used knuckle for $50, new bearing put in for another $50 !

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Sounds like you have everything under control, good job.