New Clutch - Gear rattle/chatter

Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Location
Everywhere
TDI
'15 GSW tdi
Hey Guys,

So I was experiencing some DMF shudder, and replaced the clutch with a DKM stage 2 kit. I only have about 200 miles into the break in period, but i'm experience gear rattle at idle - clutch up. Obviously, I was expecting this.

However, I'm also experience gear noise/chatter while driving in gear. It sounds the loudest in 1-3, and calms down significantly in 4-6. I've notified the shop who advised to let it go for 1000 miles, and if it didn't get better they would call DKM.

Has anyone experienced this with an aftermarket clutch on these cars?

Thanks
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
You go with a SMF? Cause welcome to solving one problem only to find another. if the noise is there under light throttle input it's nature of the beast.

What's the weight of the flywheel? Might want to try a fluid damper.

Any mods? DMF shudder is typically only there with a tune.
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
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Everywhere
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'15 GSW tdi
Joined
Sep 10, 2013
Location
Punta Gorda, FL
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15 A3 TDI/manual, 15 Golf TDI, 14 Cayenne TDI, 74 Thing.
How bad would you consider the noise? I just finished swapping my 2015 A3 TDI to a manual, and used a DKM kit. I'm already shopping OEM stuff, it's ridiculous IMO, and I've done single mass conversions on plenty of TDI's in the past. To make matters worse, I actually screwed up my first DKM flywheel and had to buy another (wrong starter used in the swap), so I'm in deep to this setup already.

On the plus side, I am hitting 60mpg+ with my car now. :)
 

Grigg3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Location
Lexington, VA
TDI
05 Jetta wagon, 15 Golf wagon
I'm also curious about this DKM clutch. I'd like to get a tune and replace the clutch to avoid the inevitable full throttle dual mass shudder (enough of that in the 05 car). This clutch is what I was planning to use...

I've heard about the fluid damper for the crank, but no part number, or if it's complementary/required with the DKM clutch?

Don't mind a little noise but don't want to harm the engine I'd like to last for several hundred thousand miles.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Both reputable tuners offer a low torque version of their tunes to avoid DMF shudder. IMO I can't notice the difference between 320 vs 290 torques and am happy with just a slight detune.
 

RIP TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2000
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
TDI
'15 GSW SE 6MT...... '01 Golf GLS 5MT.... '96 Passat Variant....
For those that want to stay with a DMF, I assume an OE or aftermarket GTD flywheel would be considered an upgrade in terms of shudder-resistance? The Sachs performance catalog lists a 150HP DMF Sachs-style flywheel and a 184HP GTD DMF Luk-style flywheel, both apparently stock replacement. The GTD flywheel should be shudder-resistant to at least 280 ft.lbs.
 
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Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Location
Everywhere
TDI
'15 GSW tdi
Well, I have about 3700 miles on the clutch. The resonance is still there while under load between 1800-2200rpm, albeit to a lesser degree. The gear rattle at idle is still there.

However, as of this morning, I’m grinding into 1st gear. Sometimes throwing it into 2nd and then going into first helps. Other times it just grinds. I’m thinking 1st gear syncro is gone. Not super happy about the situation
 

Grigg3

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Location
Lexington, VA
TDI
05 Jetta wagon, 15 Golf wagon
Is the clutch disengaging?
If you press the clutch in, engine running, and wait and wait does the input shaft eventually stop spinning and will it then go into first without grinding?
If you wait plenty long and it always grinds into first then the clutch is not fully disengaging, and also likely cause of worn synchronizer.
If after a long wait then no grinding most likely just a bad synchronizer.
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Location
Everywhere
TDI
'15 GSW tdi
Is the clutch disengaging?
If you press the clutch in, engine running, and wait and wait does the input shaft eventually stop spinning and will it then go into first without grinding?
If you wait plenty long and it always grinds into first then the clutch is not fully disengaging, and also likely cause of worn synchronizer.
If after a long wait then no grinding most likely just a bad synchronizer.

It does not appear to be the clutch not fully releasing. I do believe it to a failed synchro. I can’t imagine it is a coincidence to being only 3700 miles post the install of the clutch.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Seems like everyone who installs a smf on the 02Q ends up tearing into the trans. to replace synchros before long. I wouldn't fix the synchros just to break them again. Better to go back to dmf setup for a daily driver.
 
Joined
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'15 GSW tdi
Seems like everyone who installs a smf on the 02Q ends up tearing into the trans. to replace synchros before long. I wouldn't fix the synchros just to break them again. Better to go back to dmf setup for a daily driver.

Yup. That is what I’m seeing now. Unfortunately, I didn’t find that when I was performing my research on the kit itself. Total bummer since it appears I’ve wasted $2000, plus the repair cost for the synchro.

I’m looking at two kits currently..not sure if there are any other performance DMF options which will hold a Malone stage 2 tune. I went SMF because I was getting bad shudder between 1800-2200.

https://www.darksidedevelopments.co...el-with-sachs-sre-performance-clutch-kit.html


https://www.kermatdi.com/i-831-sachs-sre-clutch-flywheel-kit-for-02q-common-rail-6-speed-manual.html

Any other options you know of?
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
If you are experiencing the shudder even with a SMF, sounds like its other components of the driveline (gear lash of the transmission itself?) that are also a root cause, a DMF just makes it that much more noticeable.

While you're in the trans doing snycros, mind as well install that LSD you had you eye on ;)

You ever install a fluidamr?
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Location
Everywhere
TDI
'15 GSW tdi
If you are experiencing the shudder even with a SMF, sounds like its other components of the driveline (gear lash of the transmission itself?) that are also a root cause, a DMF just makes it that much more noticeable.

While you're in the trans doing snycros, mind as well install that LSD you had you eye on ;)

You ever install a fluidamr?

The shop confirmed bearing play within the trans which led to the 1st gear synchro failure. They are adamant that this is not the result of the SMF/clutch. I did not install a fluidampr because I couldn't find the right one to fit.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
I know we've spoken some over PM, but wanted to post some info for the rest of the community in case anyone else stumbles across this thread.

The gear rattle *while driving* in lower gears is likely due to the SMF being too light, or the 02Q is just that fussy without a DMF. I had the same noise with the 17lb DC SMF.

The rattle *at idle* was inconsistent with my setup that has a Fluidampr. Sometimes it would be perfectly silent, and others it would clatter like my SBC in the Jetta with SMF.

The resonance under load between 1800-2200 was also produced with my SMF setup. No idea where that stems from.

Also, the OE flywheel (and clutch/PP) on the '15s is a Luk brand. Not sure what the GTD came with, but there's a reason they limit torque from the factory to 280lb-ft. That turbo is capable of plenty more.

And finally, the Sachs SRE flywheel does shudder still, though the Fluidampr seems to be keeping most of it in check which is nice. I'm guessing I'm around 360lb-ft with this turbo, and shudder does not feel bad at all compared to stock turbo + tune without the dampener.
 
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740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
great info, I'm guessing it's all about moving that peak torque to higher RPMs to avoid it beyond a stg1+ tune.
 
Joined
Sep 11, 2011
Location
Everywhere
TDI
'15 GSW tdi
great info, I'm guessing it's all about moving that peak torque to higher RPMs to avoid it beyond a stg1+ tune.
I agree. I’m still really debating on going with the Sachs SRE Kit w/ DMF. I think it’s probably the safest bet. I’d just hope it would hold without shudder
 
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