www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD)

VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 15th, 2016, 08:18   #1
Tdijarhead
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lawrenceville PA
Default BEW Hard warm start, cold start easy.

2005 Golf BEW 5sp

I have noticed over the past month or two a slightly longer cranking period on warm starts. By slightly longer I mean 3-4 seconds vs 1-2 seconds. This happens on warm starts only. I was willing to think it was all a figment of my imagination till yesterday morning.

The car starts in the morning on the first crank normally 1-2 seconds no problems, its great. My work requires me to stop and go several times over the course of the day. Sometimes its just a few minutes that it sets and other times several hours. The warmer it is the longer the crank on restart.

Last year I bought a frost heater, I'd plug that in for two or three hours in the morning and bang, it started like a summer day. This year I have'nt needed to use it till the last three mornings. Yesterday it was -12F. Plugged it in for 2 hours and it took 2, 5-10 second cranks and 3 glow cycles to get it started. Yes the frost heater was working fine. I raised the hood and felt the hoses and valve cover everthing was warm to the touch.

This morning it was near 0F overnight and it warmed to +10F toward morning. I purposely did not plug it in. I hit the starter and 2-3 seconds and it started right up. One glow cycle.

My inital thought was the coolant temperature sensor (CTS) however I started doing a little re-search on Fred's and the cam position sensor (CPS) seems to more closely fit the symptoms.

I could just buy one of each and replace them one at a time and see if the issue goes away. The reason I thought the CTS was the problem is because of the frost heater warming every thing up and the very extended start yesterday morning.

So what do you guys think one or the other or neither?
Tdijarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 15th, 2016, 08:39   #2
JB05
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Il.USA
Fuel Economy: 43/41/40
Default

Can you find someone with VCDS to scan for DTC's? That would eliminate any guess work.
JB05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2016, 14:07   #3
lbirunner
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Dallas
Default

I would suggest the cam position sensor.
lbirunner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2016, 16:20   #4
Dimitri16V
Veteran Member
 
Dimitri16V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DE
Default

None of the above

CTS would have nothing to do with starting issues

The cranking time is longer when everything is warm. The electrons are not flowing freely to the starter ( loose or corroded connection) or the starter itself is worn out
I had the same symptoms last year . First cold start was great , warm starts longer cranking . Rebuilt the starter , starts now with less than a second cranking
It could be a malfunctioning crank sensor too .
Start with tightening and cleaning battery connections and check the heavy duty (+) cable to the starter for cleaniness and tightness
__________________
2004 Golf TDi 412K, 87 Rocco
2016 Toyota Corolla S
2016 Golf TSI ( reinforced metal oil pan , VCDS tweaks)
Aleksander Prokhorenko , Charles Keating ,Russian and US special forces KIA against ISIS. RIP heroes
Dimitri16V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 20th, 2016, 16:46   #5
Tdijarhead
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Lawrenceville PA
Default

Ok guys I finally went out and did a VCDS scan of all systems. Keep in mind the only fault code I expected was a persistant radio code. I have no check engine lights lit on my dash, I fully expected to have nothing to show for the scan. Well color me stubborn for not doing the scan earlier.


Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 997 016 R HW: 028 101 181 2
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 0282
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0763435
Coding: 0150031
Shop #: WSC 20108 444 11736
VCID: 2D5F0902B7D8F956E5-513C

1 Fault Found:
19559 - Motor for Intake Manifold Flap (V157)
P3103 - 000 - Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2163 /min
Torque: 154.0 Nm
Speed: 53.0 km/h
Load: 51.8 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Torque: 272.0 Nm
Torque: 154.0 Nm

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

This is what a vcds scan turned up.
Tdijarhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2016, 05:54   #6
keefus
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Default

Just went through this with my 2005 Jetta TDI (BEW). Checked starter, new battery, checked lift pump. Ended up being CTS, and the fuel temp sensor. Replaced both, warm starts are back to normal. Total parts cost under $50 if you don't buy from the VW stealership.
keefus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2016, 06:48   #7
JDSwan87
Black Swamp Thing
 
JDSwan87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Michigan near Toledo
Default

It could also be the software revision you have. If you have the 1st update, they had a hot start problem. It was subsequently fixed with a 2nd software revision.
__________________

Stella (Mine now): 2005 Shadow Blue Jetta Wagon TDI 09A
Mods: RC1. VCDS HEX-CAN USB (near Toledo, OH)
JDSwan87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16th, 2017, 23:18   #8
netjustin
Member
 
netjustin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JDSwan87 View Post
It could also be the software revision you have. If you have the 1st update, they had a hot start problem. It was subsequently fixed with a 2nd software revision.
Apologies for the hijack, but is there a known reference to which firmware revision pertains to which dealer-installed update?
I'm looking at output from my BEW and wondering, does it have the first update, or the second one, or neither.
The VCDS snippet that seems most relevant is this:
Code:
Control Module Part Number: 038 997 016 R HW: 028 101 114 6
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 0282
Software Coding: 0150031
netjustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2017, 05:36   #9
fruitcakesa
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Fuel Economy: 40's
Default

Subscribed, my 04 has similar start issues.
__________________
2004 Jetta TDI wagon 5 speed 278k+ VNT 17 Kerma tune. new heater core
fruitcakesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2017, 13:52   #10
Owain@malonetuning
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Vancouver
Default

This is typically a software issue, best way to check it to unplug the temperature sensor and if it starts better then it's an issue with the warm start fueling. We have a $99 tune that corrects this or it can be included with any of our power tunes for free.

Here's a graph showing what the fuel timing could potentially look like vs RPM and coolant temperature.



As you can see with a warmer coolant temp the fueling start later, this wasn't so much an issue from factory with strong batteries and starters, and VW had the right idea emissions wise assuming oil would be a bit thinner so you wouldn't need as much fuel when warm. Problem is they were wrong and it results in a lot of cars having warm start issues. I personally was looking at 4-6 cranks when warm before Mark tuned my car.

We can always rent out tools to keep costs down for this software, feel free to pm me or contact us at info@malonetuning.com if interested.
__________________

Dealers - malonetuning.com/dealers
We made a free VCDS Log Viewer!

Owain@malonetuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 17th, 2017, 22:46   #11
turbovan+tdi
Veteran Member
 
turbovan+tdi's Avatar
Default

My 04 doesn't have this issue but an 05 I sold does. Damn VW lol.
__________________
1984 6.2 Diesel Get A Way van, remote turbo setup designed/installed by me, burning anything that burns.
2003 GSW, 2.0L ALH, Stage 2 Colt Cam, 1756 turbo, auto, silver, 380k-Wife's.
2004 GSW TDI, blue, 5 speed-DD-Malone stage 2, no kitty, aeroturbine muffler, PD150's.
2003 JSW 1.8T, silver-parting out. 2006 JSW, TDI 5 speed, blue.
turbovan+tdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
starts OK when cold, hard start when warm. cristicondor VW MKV-A5 Golf/Jettas 4 March 3rd, 2015 13:02
Hard start hot, easy start cold Peter_HMR TDI 101 3 July 25th, 2011 12:55
hard start: not cold-not hot.. but warm flatblackrab VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 1 January 7th, 2010 19:18
Hard to start warm or cold NYSCOTTL TDI 101 13 August 11th, 2009 08:51
Hard Start when warm, Easy when cold DaveinVisalia VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 11 March 27th, 2003 04:16


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:04.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.18332 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 104.71 Kb. compressed to 89.11 Kb. by saving 15.60 Kb. (14.90%)]