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VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) This is a general discussion about A4/MkIV Jetta (99.5-~2005), Golf(99.5-2006), and New Beetle(98-2006). Both VE and PD engines are covered here.

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Old February 15th, 2016, 07:18   #1
Veteran Member
Default BEW Hard warm start, cold start easy.

2005 Golf BEW 5sp

I have noticed over the past month or two a slightly longer cranking period on warm starts. By slightly longer I mean 3-4 seconds vs 1-2 seconds. This happens on warm starts only. I was willing to think it was all a figment of my imagination till yesterday morning.

The car starts in the morning on the first crank normally 1-2 seconds no problems, its great. My work requires me to stop and go several times over the course of the day. Sometimes its just a few minutes that it sets and other times several hours. The warmer it is the longer the crank on restart.

Last year I bought a frost heater, I'd plug that in for two or three hours in the morning and bang, it started like a summer day. This year I have'nt needed to use it till the last three mornings. Yesterday it was -12F. Plugged it in for 2 hours and it took 2, 5-10 second cranks and 3 glow cycles to get it started. Yes the frost heater was working fine. I raised the hood and felt the hoses and valve cover everthing was warm to the touch.

This morning it was near 0F overnight and it warmed to +10F toward morning. I purposely did not plug it in. I hit the starter and 2-3 seconds and it started right up. One glow cycle.

My inital thought was the coolant temperature sensor (CTS) however I started doing a little re-search on Fred's and the cam position sensor (CPS) seems to more closely fit the symptoms.

I could just buy one of each and replace them one at a time and see if the issue goes away. The reason I thought the CTS was the problem is because of the frost heater warming every thing up and the very extended start yesterday morning.

So what do you guys think one or the other or neither?
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Old February 15th, 2016, 07:39   #2
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Il.USA
Fuel Economy: 43/41/40

Can you find someone with VCDS to scan for DTC's? That would eliminate any guess work.
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Old February 20th, 2016, 13:07   #3
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Dallas

I would suggest the cam position sensor.
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Old February 20th, 2016, 15:20   #4
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: DE

None of the above

CTS would have nothing to do with starting issues

The cranking time is longer when everything is warm. The electrons are not flowing freely to the starter ( loose or corroded connection) or the starter itself is worn out
I had the same symptoms last year . First cold start was great , warm starts longer cranking . Rebuilt the starter , starts now with less than a second cranking
It could be a malfunctioning crank sensor too .
Start with tightening and cleaning battery connections and check the heavy duty (+) cable to the starter for cleaniness and tightness
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Old February 20th, 2016, 15:46   #5
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Ok guys I finally went out and did a VCDS scan of all systems. Keep in mind the only fault code I expected was a persistant radio code. I have no check engine lights lit on my dash, I fully expected to have nothing to show for the scan. Well color me stubborn for not doing the scan earlier.

Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-016-BEW.lbl
Part No SW: 038 997 016 R HW: 028 101 181 2
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 0282
Revision: 12345678 Serial number: VWZ7Z0D0763435
Coding: 0150031
Shop #: WSC 20108 444 11736
VCID: 2D5F0902B7D8F956E5-513C

1 Fault Found:
19559 - Motor for Intake Manifold Flap (V157)
P3103 - 000 - Malfunction
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2163 /min
Torque: 154.0 Nm
Speed: 53.0 km/h
Load: 51.8 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Bin. Bits: 00001000
Torque: 272.0 Nm
Torque: 154.0 Nm

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

This is what a vcds scan turned up.
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Old February 21st, 2016, 04:54   #6
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Richmond, VA

Just went through this with my 2005 Jetta TDI (BEW). Checked starter, new battery, checked lift pump. Ended up being CTS, and the fuel temp sensor. Replaced both, warm starts are back to normal. Total parts cost under $50 if you don't buy from the VW stealership.
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Old February 21st, 2016, 05:48   #7
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Michigan near Toledo

It could also be the software revision you have. If you have the 1st update, they had a hot start problem. It was subsequently fixed with a 2nd software revision.

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Old January 16th, 2017, 22:18   #8
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California

Originally Posted by JDSwan87 View Post
It could also be the software revision you have. If you have the 1st update, they had a hot start problem. It was subsequently fixed with a 2nd software revision.
Apologies for the hijack, but is there a known reference to which firmware revision pertains to which dealer-installed update?
I'm looking at output from my BEW and wondering, does it have the first update, or the second one, or neither.
The VCDS snippet that seems most relevant is this:
Control Module Part Number: 038 997 016 R HW: 028 101 114 6
Component and/or Version: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 0282
Software Coding: 0150031
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Old January 17th, 2017, 04:36   #9
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vermont
Fuel Economy: 40's

Subscribed, my 04 has similar start issues.
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Old January 17th, 2017, 12:52   #10
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Vancouver

This is typically a software issue, best way to check it to unplug the temperature sensor and if it starts better then it's an issue with the warm start fueling. We have a $99 tune that corrects this or it can be included with any of our power tunes for free.

Here's a graph showing what the fuel timing could potentially look like vs RPM and coolant temperature.

As you can see with a warmer coolant temp the fueling start later, this wasn't so much an issue from factory with strong batteries and starters, and VW had the right idea emissions wise assuming oil would be a bit thinner so you wouldn't need as much fuel when warm. Problem is they were wrong and it results in a lot of cars having warm start issues. I personally was looking at 4-6 cranks when warm before Mark tuned my car.

We can always rent out tools to keep costs down for this software, feel free to pm me or contact us at info@malonetuning.com if interested.

Dealers - malonetuning.com/dealers
We made a free VCDS Log Viewer!

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Old January 17th, 2017, 21:46   #11
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My 04 doesn't have this issue but an 05 I sold does. Damn VW lol.
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